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Tuesday, September 27, 2016

UOJ'S RESPONSE TO RABBI EIDENSOHN ON THE MEANING OF AUTHENTIC TORAH-TRUE JUDAISM

  "Chassid"ism" is not Judaism"

THE UOJ ARCHIVES - FEBRUARY 2007:

Chassidic movements today, regardless of the value it may or may not have had at the time of the Besht, are for the most part today, meaningless to Jews of intellect. The Rebbe today is a fraud capitalizing on the very essence of human weakness. Look around, save some good chesed organizations, the rest of it is like rotten stinking meat. The smartest of the chassidic kids are leaving physically, and much of the rest are trapped, and have left emotionally. But the chassidim are Jews, certainly not ones that we should be proud of.


I want to thank Rabbi Eidensohn once again for taking the time to attempt to correct my views on the meaning of Torah-true Judaism.

I do assume dear Rabbi, that the reason I have not heard from you in the past two years since I began my career as a Blogger, is because you do agree with everything else I have written since March 2005. That's quite flattering.

Now that we got that out of the way, I will proceed in a serious manner. For the sake of some of my detractors, I want to be able to demonstrate that I am capable of respecting rabbinic figures in positions of authority, when indeed those rabbis have earned my respect.

Dear Rabbi,

It would be foolhardy of me to attempt to match my Torah knowledge with someone of your stature, although I'm confident I am capable of holding my own. I can , however, match Gedolim stories with you, and perhaps tell you a few that you are not aware of. Perhaps.

I have a very diverse audience. There are clergy-people of every faith, a sitting U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Superior Court judges, yeshiva-leit, attorneys, bankers, doctors, journalists, an adviser to President Bush, college professors, roshei yeshiva...not to forget leitzonim (clowns), and everyone else, that I am expected to entertain at no charge. They do not come to UOJ for Gedolim stories, they come here for an unorthodox presentation of the ugly, in your face, rude & crude truth! So here goes! (With respect!)

The crux of my post on "Chassid"ism" is not Judaism", is entirely different than your well-intended interpretation of those words. I did not certainly mean to imply, as you seem to infer, that Chassidim are not Jews. I certainly did not say that Kabbalists are not Jews. As, I would never say or even think for a second, that a Reform Jew is not a Jew, or that our totally secular brothers and sisters are not Jews. Our Halacha clearly states that "anyone born to a Jewish mother is a Jew". That includes "Jews For Jesus", members of the "Kabbalah Center", and even members of the "Moon" sect, that were born to a Jewish mother.

But the facts actually speak for themselves. The "Zohar" was not an evolutionary work that began with Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai as the "Ari" claimed it was. Of course there are references in the Talmud to kaballah, spirituality, mystical happenings, and aggadata, or stories that were passed down through the ages, I have not said otherwise.

But I am looking for Mesorah, actual references to "Kaballah /Zohar" as a body of work that was incorporated into Judaism at the time of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, and there are none.

What we call today Chassidim, are by definition followers of the Besht or Baal Shem Tov. His teachings, perhaps, had purpose at the time. It was able to bring into his sphere of influence a simplified, watered-down Judaism, for "simple" Jews, that were incapable of grasping the learnings of the Talmud. That, I'm certain, was a good thing, supposing that it did not conflict with true Torah values. Serving God by singing was in fact something new to Judaism at that time. I do not have a problem with that form of prayer, provided it also included the traditional prayers of the Jews that were formulated after the destruction of our Bais Hamikdash, by Chazal.

I have no doubt that the great Rav Ahron Kotler embraced many Chassidic Rebbes. Are you therefore implying that because of an embrace out of ahavas Yisroel, his love for a fellow Jew, that implied he endorsed their philosophies? How would you respond to a photo of Rav Ahron Kotler embracing the great gaon Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik? Would you therefore claim he endorsed his great thoughts, philosophies and writings?

After giving a shiur in Tanya, the writings of the Lubavitch Rebbe referred to as the Baal Hatanya, the saintly Rav Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the founder of Yeshiva Torah Vodaath and Torah Umesorah, was asked by a student; "Rebbe, are you a Lubavitch Chasid?" (a follower of the Lubavitch movement), his answer was clear and precise , "I am a chasid of the Ribono Shel Olam". (a follower of Hashem)

We need to remember that once we start including additional works of rabbis into our Canon, or the original Torah that was given to us at Sinai, where and when does it end? Would you then claim the works and the writings of the Rambam as significant as the Prophets? How then would you explain that many of the Rambam's writings were burned, and he was excommunicated by many contemporary rabbis for being a heretic?

Would you also then claim dear Rabbi, that the works of the great gaon Rabbi Moshe Feinstein to be as significant in terms of being able to dispute them, as the Shulchan Aruch? ( The body of law written by R' Yosef Caro accepted by Orthodox Jews as the embodiment of the Torah law)

So there is a huge difference in what is "authentic, original Sinai Judaism" and the add-ons that came later for whatever certain rabbis may have deemed worthwhile at the time.

That leads me to another favorite saying of mine. "There are happenings, doings/actions, successes by people that are timely, and than there are the ones that are timeless!

What the great Rabbi Kotler did for Judaism after the war was "timely", what the saintly Rabbi Mendlowitz did for American Judaism was "timeless".

The era of recruiting every single male into a lifetime of Torah study is over. It was perhaps desperately needed post-war for twenty years or so, perhaps, but certainly that is an idea that is now devastating Jews. Time to bury it quickly before the damage becomes irreparable! Entire families are being destroyed!

The original intent of kollel was for the select precious few that were able to carry forth the Torah to our next generation with the utmost integrity. Kollel is for our select few mitzuyonim or excellent students. Excellence in mind, in middos, and character, with purity of heart and soul. Those people only deserve our communal support, not the other 95% with average, at best, abilities, or for most, just a place to hang out after the wedding.

What Rabbi Mendlowitz did for American Judaism is "timeless"! A day school in every major American city was his dream that was fullfilled under the leadership of one very great man, the college educated, Dr. Joseph Kaminetsky. When Elya Svei and Shea Fishman took over, Torah Umesorah died for all intents and purposes! In its present form, he would have shut it down.

The great visionary Rabbi Mendlowitz strongly felt that Judaism in America can not survive without ample parnassah; was as "timeless" when he lived , as it is today, and will be until the end of time. Make no mistake about it, had he lived longer, there would have been a full-fledged state chartered yeshiva college and a trade school under the auspices of Yeshiva Torah Vodaath. Prior to his untimely death, Rav Hutner, at his behest, had handled the application and approval process. This is not story, this is verifiable fact.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE THAT SAYS OTHERWISE!

http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2014/02/american-hebrew-theological-university.html

Each child would have been educated and put on a learning path for their individual needs and abilities. There would not have been mass herding of children into educational programs that were unsuited for them. He worked for God, his business was owned by God, and every breathing second of his short life was dedicated to benefit Klal Yisroel and Hashem. He did NOT leave Torah Vodaath to his progeny; there were more qualified people to lead the yeshiva. THIS WAS HASHEM'S YESHIVA, and he was only God's clerk!

What is very telling is what you chose not to disagree with. The Christian concepts of the Rebbe as an intermediary between Jews and God; and Gedolim infallibilty as an integral part of our Mesorah, is something I would want to hear your opinion on.

The evidence however is clear. The Rebbes and "infallible" Rabbis are comitting crimes under the guise of Mesorah. According to them, "one must never question their behavior or decisions, period, leave your brains at the door"! That is something that must never be tolerated under any circumstances. We do not live under the Czars, the Romans, and other hostile governing powers that we must be concerned that ALL of our affairs, whether we know what we're doing or not, must be totally controlled by rabbis. This is what killed hundreds of thousands of Jews, perhaps millions, since we became a People, and came really close to destroying all of Judaism.

I clearly, unequivocally, and respectfully disagree with Rav Hershel Schachter's opinion that "where" a criminal perpertrator is incarcerated, is a consideration that must be addressed before one goes to the police. A crime such as child molestation, that destroys our childrens' well-being, physical as well as emotional, must be reported to the police promptly without any other consideration, certainly without asking a rabbi that probably has an inherent conflict of interest.

The huge philosophical problem that I'm having is the inverse relationship that is taking place in the Torah world. What one must expect and demand; that the more Torah in our society, the more piety and Torah values should be increasing as well. The exact opposite is what's happening! The more Torah being learned, the more Torah centers going up, the more crime in one form or another, is transpiring in these very centers. The Torah is NOT being internalized, it became a subject to study, the very antithesis of what R' Ahron and R' Shraga Feivel had in mind!

Dear Rabbi Eidensohn, you are a very brave man for coming here. The Agudah really thought that I expected them to invite me to speak at their Convention. They are afraid of their own shadows. Yes, I asked for an invitation, challenging them to do the very thing that they did. They devoted the theme of their Convention to this dangerous phenomena called blogging/Internet. Not the avlas/crimes going on with their tacit approval, but a "maaseh Satan" who uncovered them for the criminals/incompetents/ impotent fools that they are. Then, of course, comes the coverup and tortuous twisting of the English language.

So we have a difference of opinion on this and that, Rabbi. You value certain channels of information, stories, that I gave up on a long time ago, when they consistently did not hold up under scrutiny. You use the Internet to communicate your thoughts, kol-hakovod. I would much rather focus on what we do agree on.

The Jewish people are a great People, but we are floundering and destroying ourselves with criminal and frivolous behavior. The "Kabballah Movement" is a fraud, the works of the Zohar are not the learnings of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, and have perhaps as much value to Jews as the Tanya, the Mesilas Yeshorim and the Michtav M'Eliyahu. They are works that tantalize the mind, and challenge, if studied correctly, the intelligent minds. Mesorah? I don't think so.

Chassidic movements today, regardless of the value it may or may not have had at the time of the Besht, are for the most part today, meaningless to Jews of intellect. The Rebbe today is a fraud capitalizing on the very essence of human weakness. Look around, save some good chesed organizations, the rest of it is like rotten stinking meat. The smartest of the chassidic kids are leaving physically, and much of the rest are trapped, and have left emotionally. But the chassidim are Jews, certainly not ones that we should be proud of.

If this is what the Besht had in mind for his followers, he should be considered as very much the danger that Shabbtai Tzvi was in his reign of ignorance and confusion. I could care less about certain groups that find comfort in ancient myths created by charismatic storytellers. As long as they do not violate the basic tenets of Judaism perhaps there is a value ; I frankly am concerned about people spending their precious time on frivolous acts in the name of Torah.

I do not really have much to add about the behavior of the present-day Rebbes and their chassidim. I have mocked the movement to the point of painting them as ignorant, vile, obscene cartoon characters, except that Mickey Mouse did not claim to be an intermediary to God for his Mouseketeers. That's when people start killing /maiming other people in the name of God and Halacha. Certainly not part of my Mesorah!

Hopefully, other concerned and honest rabbis like yourself, will join together and give us hope that there is a future for Jews that crave for honest rabbis and authentic, Torah-true Judaism.

May you be blessed with kol-tuv; the strength and wisdom of our previous Torah giants, and the desire to continue where they left off . We want to be delivered back to the time when we were surrounded by ehrliche rabbonim and true yirei Hashem that deserve our respect.

Your successes would then be "timeless".

310 comments:

1 – 200 of 310   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

I like !

Anonymous said...

far and away the work of a genius. the best I ever read anywhere

Anonymous said...

wowwwwwwww. powerful,shkoyach. great piece

Anonymous said...

UOJ, Come out, Klall Yisroel needs you desperately.

Nathan Lewin said...

A Justice of SCOTUS?

Which one?

The League of "Honorary" Gentlemen said...

UOJ,

Do you have any information if Pro-fresser Twerski was on thin ice at Hofstra and perhaps his health issues are just an excuse to bow out with some dignity?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

A Justice of SCOTUS?
--------------------------------------

Hint, not Clarence Thomas.

close friend said...

Timeless!

My apologies to Gil Student said...

There has been some discussion here about Gil's shul rabbi being enamored with Moses Mendelson, a topic that he did not shy away from vocalizing even when in yeshiva. Or depending on what his objectives were, maybe *precisely* when he was in yeshiva. Asking around with the Brisker crowd from that era seems to confirm the rumblings here. It can be ugly when you deflate someone's balloon but I just can't resist after seeing Yissocher Krauser's new sefer on obscure writings of the Gra MiVilna. There are versions out there of a story of an exchange the Gra had with a leading thinker of his era who he called an apikoress. When R' Sholom Schwadron would refer to the episode, he would not name the target of the Gaon's wrath. Krauser has uncovered an obscure kuntress that does. It's not clear if they saw the actual letter that the Gra wrote or if there is other historical data to back it up. It turns out the apikoress is Moses Mendelson. There seemingly would be archived data that could prove it because this story involves various government officials of Czarist Russia and the then Germany which was probably the time of the Palatinate. Czarist archival matter is now open to the public for the first time.

Breaking News on Colmer said...

http://jewishsurvivors.blogspot.com/2007/02/more-information-needed-sexual-predator.html

More Information Needed - Sexual Predator in Passaic, NJ
There is a rumor floating around that individuals in the observant community of Passaic, NJ raised enough money to go to the home of a sexual predator and say:

"We are buying your house. We want you out of the community."

The rumor goes on by saying:

"This guy gladly took the money and moved to another community to continue his life...."

The Awareness Center is gathering as much information as possible regarding this case.

The answer to dealing with sex offenders is not chasing them out of town and letting them become someone else's problem. The solution is to report all suspected sex crimes to law enforcement immedately and not to bring these sorts of suspicions to our rabbis to deal with. Our rabbis, cantors and beit dins are not set up to investigate allegations of sex crimes.

It is vitally important for our communities to come up with a plan in dealing with sex offenders who reside in our communities appropriately. Sex offenders are individuals who need specialized care. They need communities to help them stay on track. Their family members also need specialized help, especially in cases in which family members are in denial that a crime was committed.

As a community we need to escort alleged and convicted sex offenders to and from therapy appointments, we need to escort these individuals whenever they are out side their homes -- including when they daven in synagogues, walk in hallways and enter public bathrooms. The goal is to prevent one more individual from being harmed. If a sex offender M.O. is to go after children, we need to help them find careers in which they will have no access to them. If the sex offender's M.O. is to go after women, we need to assist them in finding a new career in which they have no contact with women, etc.

Remember it takes a village to raise a child, this includes children who grow up to become sexual predators.

If anyone has information regarding the rumor of the sexual predator in Passaic, NJ please forward it to me immediately or call at 443-857-5560.

Sincerely,
Vicki Polin
Executive Director - The Awareness Center, Inc.
www.theawarenesscenter.org

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

VERY IMPORTANT
You must read the article in this link proving the zohar and kabbalah are fake. Written by an anonymous Charedi Rav. Please share the entire article with your readers.
http://godolhador.blogspot.com/2005/07/zohar-is-fake-document.html

Anonymous said...

UOJ
You have my total support.
ZA

Judge Ruchelsman from Flatbush said...

Oy vey! Is anyone going to be choshesh me now for following UOJ's blog?

Anita Hill said...

I despise Clarence Thomas. He's probably reading the blog unbeknownst to UOJ and conferring with Margo.

Looking for Love said...

Maybe Ronnie should hook up with that guy Avrohom "Amway" from Lakewood. Boro Park residents may have seen this character floating around on shabbos with a kapota & cowboy hat. He ran an ad for years and had no problem admitting it in a Jersey Jewish newspaper that he is a well traveled Phd, 39, (he was older) looking for midos tovos girl under 20. The reply to was a PO box listed with his real last name. He once came into the yeshiva dining room with a wild story for everyone and the passport stamps to prove it. He says he went to Yemen to find a young girl to marry but when the Arabs found out he was Jewish, assigned a secret policeman to tag him. When he asked permission to visit the Jewish villages, he was told he'd better get out of the country in 24 hours for his own safety. The US embassy sent an attache to make sure he got on the plane alive but it was erev shabbos and the only flight out that day was to Egypt so he was stuck there in a hotel room. He threatened he was going to raise the issue with the UN & State Department and blow it up into an international incident.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

A Justice of SCOTUS?
--------------------------------------

Hint, not Clarence Thomas.


Kinda doubt that it's Ruth Ginsburg, since that would presuppose that she has some interest in traditional Judaism. Likewise with Souter.

Frankly I'd love to hear what Scalia really wants to say.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Looking for Love said...

Maybe Ronnie should hook up with that guy Avrohom "Amway" from Lakewood.


Sorry, but unlike you, I like women and have no interest in hooking up with some named Avrohom.

I'm sure it is much better for all those 25 year old frum girls who have reached their shelf life to just be old maids. I'm sure it is much better for the frum community to have middle aged unmarried childless women.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Just so you froomies don't have to see something "inappropriate".

Just so you froomies don't have to face the fact that you've raised a generation of selfish yeshiva bochrim more interested in the size of her bust and her tatty's bank account.

Anonymous said...

"What is very telling is what you chose not to disagree with. The Christian concepts of the Rebbe as an intemediary between Jews and God; and Gedolim infallibilty as an integral part of our Mesorah, is something I would want to hear your opinion on."

,,,

Me too, Are you up for the challenge RABBI EIDENSOHN?

The 12th grader who jumped to his death from an 11th floor building in Florida, was apparently seeing Psychologist Avrohm Modrowitz for therapy years ago. Given the free access this prolific child molester, Avrohm Mondrowitz, had to his patients, and taking into account that he sexually abused several boys, including a few Italian boys on his block (with actual penetration, for those who need that assurance), it would come as no surprise to find out that this suicide was indeed spurred on as a result of this yeshiva guy being victimized as a child by Mondrowitz.

UOJ, you are the MASTER-STORY-TELLER OF TRUTH; smoke billowing out and knocking the enemy dead. Before we can have any glimmer of hope that the MESODOS will actually function in the way the great visionary Rabbi Mendlowitz had envisioned, we must go through a CLEANSING stage. It will be a REBUILDING of the foundation of greatness from the bottom-up. The ill-functioning Rabonim, executives, of Torah-Judiasim, who have sabotaged our religion must go now! Fire them, retire them, whatever. The CONSTRUCTION stasge must start with new fresh faces who are baal midos, fair, and balanced in their character with a SHARPNESS to be able to discern corruption and act upon it, even if it means putting their pride and career on the line. Is that too much to ask?

UOJ writes:

I clearly, unequivocally, and respectfully disagree with Rav Hershel Schachter's opinion that "where" a criminal perpertrator is incarcerated, is a consideration that must be addressed before one goes to the police. A crime such as child molestation, that destroys our childrens' well-being, physical as well as emotional, must be reported to the police promptly without any other consideration, certainly without asking a rabbi that probably has an inherent conflict of interest.

''''

Rav Hershel Schachter's opinion is DISGUSTING and CRIMINAL. Just the fact that he would say that it is a consideration that must be addressed, is upsetting enough. He molests children but we are not allowed to lock up the offender because he happen to be a religious Jew, is what Schachter's saying if you read between the lines.

UOJ, you are hereby invited to the next Agudah Convention. However, we stress that you must refrain from incriminating us in any way. The crimes we have swept under the rug all these years may not be spoken of.

Sincerely,

The Mental Midgets


''''Unforgiven''''

boog said...

Well done, UOJ.

Would hope Rabbi Eidensohn comes back with a reply.

I believe the U.S. Supreme Court Justice that reads this Blog is the Honorable Antonin Scalia.

The Stink Leads Back to YTT said...

So much for assurances from David Mandel at Ohel that they aren't in bed with Margo & Twerski.

Twerski is co-chairman of the upcoming Ohel dinner. How can anyone be involved that disgraceful individual who shovels Margo's dreck with white gloves and a big phony smile. "Ohel is just here to help the victims" - my foot.

The guest of honor this year is Sheldon Silver who's been accused of holding up the sex offender registry bill in Albany. The NY Daily News is also currently investigating funding that Silver has thrown Ohel's way, leading up to his cameo appearance at the dinner, although that may turn out to be legit. I've also noticed lawsuits filed against Ohel for negligence on the state website. I wonder what those stories were all about.

UOJ should put David Mandel on notice.

Anonymous said...

To the person claiming to be Judge Ruchelsman:

First of all, UOJ said a sitting U.S. Supreme Court Justice follows his blog...those are the guys in Washington, DC (the "men in black"), not the guys in Downtown Brooklyn. UOJ also mentioned Superior Court Judges, and once again, these are not the guys in Downtown Brooklyn.

Judge Ruchelsman is a New York State Supreme Court Justice, and I might add, a great big mentch. Just ask any of the frum students at Brooklyn Law School and they will tell you. So why not leave him out of this.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't Mondrowitz already on vacation in Israel when this kid was still a newborn?

Beavis said...

Gil quotes Moses Mendelson thre times on his blog and seems to like him. That's cool. Heh heh.

Stumped Again said...

Ronnie shouldn't be so quick to write off Ruth Bader Ginsberg. She grew up at an orthodox shul in Brooklyn. I think her rabbi was Alvin Klass, the NYPD chaplain.

Dear Abby said...

Hey Ronnie, it's good you think you're such a blazing success that you can criticize the current generation of froomies & yeshiva bochurim. A 22 year old guy who is turned on by a 19 year old girl's figure is certainly more normal than a 25 year old girl being pursued by an over the hill old fart like you.

And have you ever heard the expression "tovim hashnayim min haechad"?. There was no inference that you are gay, just that you & Avraham Amway could compare notes on your hunt for Mrs Right.

Anonymous said...

How could someone say that Tuli Kagan from Lawrence was seeing Mondrowitz? Wouldn't a present day high schooler be too young for that to be possible?

Anonymous said...

The Jewish Observer had a piece on Mendelsohn and noted that although all or many of his children converted, he remained religous all his life. The next issue, The Novominsker wrote a scathing article on behalf of the Moetzes decrying the 'praise' that was heaped upon such a rasha.

Apparently they wanted to rewrite history or something and claim that he wasn't religious and didn't deserve any credit for anything.

Well, as far as I know he didn't molest his grandkids even though they were goyyim, so he is a tzaddik in my book.

Anonymous said...

If it's true that the Vilna Gaon personally called Mendelson an apikorus, which now seems likely, that don't make him no tzaddik. Gil Student & Hirsch can put on dunce caps & sit on the same bench with Avi Shafran.

Anonymous said...

Chasam Sofer on Mendelssohn
http://www.yutorah.org/showShiur.cfm?shiurID=705191

Yeshiva on Trial for Arson? said...

I can only find two entities with this name. One is a yeshiva ketana on the Upper West Side and the other is on Bedford Ave in Flatbush, registered to an Oscar Tauber.

It seems like the arresting officers, if an actual person was arrested, were FDNY arson investigators who carry weapons & handcuffs and make arrests just like cops.

NEW YORK Criminal Court
Docket: 2006SN108842
Defendant: YESHIVA OHR TORAHCOMM SCHOOL

Summons/Incident Date
Summons Date: June 22, 2006
Incident Date: June 22, 2006

Case Related Numbers
Criminal Justice Tracking Number:
NYSID Number:
Arrest Number:
Summons/Ticket Number: 4222824150

Issuing Officer Info
Agency: NYFD - BUR. FIRE INVESTIGATION

Appearance Information: Appearance
Part & Date Judge Calendar
Section Court
Reporter Release
Status Arraignment
Type Hearing
Type Docket
Detail
SAP2A March 16, 2007 Pending No Type
SAP2A December 05, 2006 KORETZ,E Pending HAIRSTON , LAVERNE Released on Recognizance No Type CASE CONTINUED
SAP2A September 12, 2006 KORETZ,E Arraignments HAIRSTON , LAVERNE Released on Recognizance Regular CONSENT ADJOURNMENT

Picasso said...

"Gil Student & Hirsch can put on dunce caps & sit on the same bench with Avi Shafran."

Would that ever be a hilarious portrait. It's worth more than the thousand smackeroos that UOJ offered if anyone catches a snapshot of Belsky shaking hands with pedophile Lipa Brenner.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Dear Abby said...

Hey Ronnie, it's good you think you're such a blazing success that you can criticize the current generation of froomies & yeshiva bochurim.


It's sad to see how yeshiva products like yourself, who have supposedly spent years studying the words of the master debaters, rhetoricians and logicians of the Talmud, so quickly resort to ad hominem. Since you probably didn't learn much during your secular studies as well, this is how Wikipedia describes your approach:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.

My personal shortcomings don't invalidate the true things that I say.

A 22 year old guy who is turned on by a 19 year old girl's figure is certainly more normal than a 25 year old girl being pursued by an over the hill old fart like you.

It's just so heartwarming to see how froomies love to call other Jews names, like "loser", "bum", or "over the hill". But then they also consider a 25 year old woman to be "too old" for marriage consideration. After all, if nobody has married her by then, there must be something wrong with her, right?

As for what is normal, it is perfectly normal for any adult male, whether 18 or 80, to find a young woman attractive. I seem to recall this old redhead who enjoyed the company of young women in his old age. I think his name was David. Acting on that attraction might be socially unacceptable in various societies and eras, but the attraction is completely normal. I'm pretty sure that Playboy and Penthouse have more than a couple of middle aged subscribers. You don't seem to have a problem with yeshiva rebbes masturbating young boys, but you think something is wrong with me because I think an attractive young woman is an attractive young woman.

FWIW, though they are physically attractive, I'm not particularly interested in women in their 20s. Women in their 30s are more mature, more wise to the ways of the world, less self centered, more assured, more comfortable with themselves and their bodies, and very often are more interested in sex.

In an earlier time, it was not uncommon for middle aged widowers to marry younger women. Marrying off a daughter to an older, financially established, man was not exactly unheard of in Jewish culture.

Apparently, you would rather have thousands of unmarried, childless, Jewish women.

And have you ever heard the expression "tovim hashnayim min haechad"?.

Are you now advocating threesomes?

Auto Report World Editors said...

Stumped Again said...

Ronnie shouldn't be so quick to write off Ruth Bader Ginsberg. She grew up at an orthodox shul in Brooklyn. I think her rabbi was Alvin Klass, the NYPD chaplain.


Someone else mentioned on this thread also grew up in an orthodox shul, Moses Mendelsohn.

Auto Report World Editors said...

If it's true that the Vilna Gaon personally called Mendelson an apikorus, which now seems likely, that don't make him no tzaddik.

I am Moses Mendelsohn of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Wasn't the JO piece on Mendelsohn written by Avi Shafran?

What was ironic about the reactionary response to the article was that the article was based around the question of how, if Mendelsohn was a personally observant Jew, did he go wrong? The author's conclusion, IIRC, was that Mendelsohn did not listen to da'as chachamim.

Considering how this conclusion buttresses the cult of the Gedolim, it was surprising that the article evoked such hostility.

Anonymous said...

Mondrowitz was already on vacation in Israel before this kid was even born.

Anonymous said...

I stand corrected on Tuli Kagan. I agree, I think he was too young to be seeing Mondrowitz.

'''' Unforgiven ''''

Anonymous said...

I'd like to take exception to one little thing you wrote, UOJ - that all major US cities have a Jewish day school. They don't.

There are 300 families here that are members of two congregations here, and an undetermined amount of unaffiliated families, in a town of about 300,000 people (immediately in this county - about 500,000 if you include the surrounding metropolitan area) and we do not have a Jewish day school of any kind. The Jewish parents here who can't abide public school have only a couple of secular and a whole pile of christian religious schools to choose from (more than a dozen). There is even a muslim school here, and they have far less families than we do.

We have wasted so much money on these kollel and yeshiva students (who should be out there earning a living) that a hundred thousand Jewish children in non-east coast states have no access to Hebrew education. Why? Because of their hatred and disdain for modernity? Because they don't care about the future of Judaism - just about their own incestuous communities? Because they don't want to deal with people who have had a scientific modern education and might ask embarrassing questions? All of these and more, I'm sure.

But don't say every Jewish kid has a day school, because I know a thousand kids who don't. And there are plenty of other towns out there like this one.

Judaism is shrinking because of misplaced priorities, pure and simple. They would rather cut modern Jewish kids loose and let them be lost than deal with people who just want their kids to have a reasonable Jewish education without any medieval nonsense. So let's at least be honest about it, shall we? They don't care about educating "Jewish" kids - they just care about perpetuating their own insular cults. If you don't want to be part of their cult, they aren't going to spend one second of time worrying about the future of your kids. That's a fact.

Anonymous said...

So you just made up something stupid to drag the niftar into this discussion? And now people have a point when they say that there's a witch hunt against molestors. You don't do anybody any favors by making up a story that Mondrowitz is related to this tragedy. Honesty and consistency is more important than inflammatory made up nonsense.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Above Anon,

The founder of Torah Umesorah would have made certain that your town would have had a Hebrew school.

The present people running the organization are too busy on the rubber chicken circuit to be concerned about your child and thousands of others in dire need of a Hebrew school.

I'm pained to no end!

scholar said...

The story about Mendelssohn and the Vilna Gaon is as follows, as reported by R. Yaakov Zvi Meklenburg in Aliyot Eliyahu note 34:

Solomon Maimon went to visit the Vilna Gaon and wrote a letter to Moses Mendlessohn about what transpired. Maimon asked the Vilna Gaon a long list of philosophical questions which the Vilna Gaon then answered in the precise order they were asked. As Maimon was about to leave, the discussion turned to a question of Hebrew philology and Maimon pointed out that Rashi was wrong about a particular word. The Vilna Gaon charged Maimon with heresy and had him publicly flogged by the Vilna Bet Din. Maimon wrote this all in a letter to Mendlessohn. The chief rabbi of Berlin was present when Mendlessohn received the letter. Mendlessohn saw the name of the signatory and refused to read the letter, saying "What does this man want from me?"


It is worth noting that R. Meklenburg wrote a letter of haskamah to Heinemann's Chumash Mekor Chaim (1832-4) which includes the Hebrew text of the Torah, Targum, Rashi, Mendelssohn's German translation, the Biur and Heinemann's supercommentary to the Biur.

See Edward Breuer, "Between Hasskalah and Orthodoxy: The Writings of R. Jacob Tzvi Mekleburg", HUCA 66 (1995).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said... 2:21 PM, February 04, 2007

"So you just made up something stupid to drag the niftar into this discussion? And now people have a point when they say that there's a witch hunt against molestors. You don't do anybody any favors by making up a story that Mondrowitz is related to this tragedy. Honesty and consistency is more important than inflammatory made up nonsense"


My response,

I did not make up anything, and certainly not anything stupid. First of all, I said it "appears" that he was a victim of Mondrowitz, because someone already mentioned it on this blog, I wasn't the first one to say it, so get your eye-sight checked. Second, You choice of words "witch hunt against molestors" is quite telling of your character. Of course we are after molesters, they are trash of the lowest kind. Are you one of these molesters? From your response I would think that you are. So yes, this is a witch hunt against molesters you idiot. I wouldn't call going after molesters "nonsense" or "stupid" or "inflammatory". Obviously the niftar had problems and i'm sure it had something to to with being abused as a child. You don't just jump off an 11th floor building if everything is honky dory.
What a jerk you are!

'''' Unforgiven ''''

Anonymous said...

chemical imbalances will cause a person to become depressed and suicidal. There are many people under psychiatric care and most of them were not molested or abused.

By claiming that every person who has problems was molested as a child you are removing your credibility and giving ammunition to those who want to cover up the molestation issue. You (we) will go a lot farther by sticking with the facts.

Also, you seem a little angry. Were you molested as a child?

Auto Report World Editors said...

But don't say every Jewish kid has a day school, because I know a thousand kids who don't. And there are plenty of other towns out there like this one.

So start a school. Don't rely on the froomies or Torah U'Mesorah. Get together some interested parents, get the two congregational rabbis on board, lobby your local federation/foundation for funds, hit up some wealthy Jews for money, and start a non-denominational Jewish school. You can start with an afternoon Hebrew school, though day schools undoubtedly provide a more intensive Jewish experience.

I'm 52 and was in the first kindergarten class of Hillel Day School of Metro Detroit back in 1959. I don't know how much the founders relied on Torah U'Mesorah since the school was deliberately non denominational, though it was heavily influenced by Conservative rabbis and laity and later did affiliate with the Solomon Schechter organization. I do recall some Torah U'Mesorah materials in the schools early days, but the school's impetus was local.

The school was founded by an amalgamation of Hebraists, Conservative Rabbis and Modern Orthodox Jews. I had kids in my classes from Reform, Conservative and Orthodox families plus a few secular Israelis. Yes, it helped that Jacob Segal, the rabbi of the most affluent Conservative synagogue in town, Adat Shalom, and Milton Arm, rabbi of Ahavas Achim, were early advocates of the school, and had the support of a few affluent families (Schostak, Kasle, Lazaroff-Schaefer) but it was still a struggle.

Naomi Floch was the first principal of the school (and my first grade teacher as well). She grew up in a small town, Alpena, Michigan, where her father was an orthodox rabbi. The assisted living apartments where she now lives gave her a birthday party a couple of weeks ago on the occasion of her centenary (may she live to 120). Some of us alumni attended the party. R. Milton Arm was one of the speakers and he talked about the early struggles, how they'd have to borrow money to make payroll (and the school only had a handful of employees at the time). He talked about how he asked Mrs. Floch to be the first principal and what a good decision it turned out to be in retrospect. While I'm not thrilled about the school's current ideology and hashkafa, of the ten kids in my graduating class of 1969 at least five are shomer shabbas, including a couple whose birth families were not orthodox. At least two of my classmates are orthodox rabbis, R. David Bigman who is a rav of a moshava community in Israel, and R. Daniel Arm who is considered a talmid chacham by people who know a lot more about Yahadut than I do. All ten kids in my graduating class are active, involved Jews, regardless of their denominational affiliation.

God helps those who help themselves.

Start your own Jewish school.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Unforgiven,

Anonymous said... 2:21 PM, February 04, 2007

"So you just made up something stupid to drag the niftar into this discussion? And now people have a point when they say that there's a witch hunt against molestors. You don't do anybody any favors by making up a story that Mondrowitz is related to this tragedy. Honesty and consistency is more important than inflammatory made up nonsense"


Anon at 2:21 is not defending molesters or their enablers. Anon is saying that hasty conclusions and false information gives ammunition to those who deny there is a problem. The enablers and criminals who protect and cover up seize on any misstatement.

Credibility is important.

I think Anon @ 2:21 is on our side of this issue. We don't need any 'blue on blue' fighting.

Gil Scholar said...

Rav Chaim Volozshiner also wrote a haskamah to Shlomo Dubnow's republication of the Biur.

Anonymous said...

"Unforgiven" said: "First of all, I said it "appears" that he was a victim of Mondrowitz, because someone already mentioned it on this blog, I wasn't the first one to say it, so get your eye-sight checked."

Nowhere on this blog does that appear. It does say on a previous thread that the long beach suicider was with Mondrowitz. But that's a totally different episode. Get your brain checked.

Anonymous said...

2:58 PM, February 04, 2007,

Anonymous said...

chemical imbalances will cause a person to become depressed and suicidal. There are many people under psychiatric care and most of them were not molested or abused.

By claiming that every person who has problems was molested as a child you are removing your credibility and giving ammunition to those who want to cover up the molestation issue. You (we) will go a lot farther by sticking with the facts.



Thank you for your advice and I will watch myself in the future from jumping to hasty conclusions, it's well taken. Chemical imbalances can cause a person to be depressed or even suicidal, no argument there. To say that most of these people who are suffering from mental illness were not molested or abused is something that I do not know and neither do you. I would like to see facts if there are any regarding this. You may be correct on that and I could be 100% wrong, I have no problem with being wrong and admitting such. I do know however, that a person who commits suicide is obviously a very disturbed individual. Were they molested or abused? I would venture to say that they were in some shape or form, weather it be sexually, physically, or emotionally. A NORMAL person can have a chemical imbalance due to distressing events in their life. Was Tuli Kagan molested? Maybe yes and maybe no. My point was just to bring out awareness that it is very possible that he was. Is it possible that the niftar was born with or later developed a chemical imbalance in the brain? Absolutely. Did he suffer from delusional thoughts where perhaps he thought he can fly off like superman from an 11th floor building? Yes, that is very possible, although my personal feeling is that was not the case in this sad story. So just to be clear. I am in no way suggesting or implying that every person who has problems, or is suffering from a chemical imbalance in their brain was molested as a child as you made reference to. However, I am suggesting that in SOME of these suicides, it is a very plausible scenario. That is the point I was trying make.

You write:
Also, you seem a little angry. Were you molested as a child?

My response;

I will neither confirm nor deny that at this time. Let's just say that I have seen, witnessed, and heard everything that is wrong with Torah-Judiasim as constituted in its present form. Nothing surprises me anymore. I know a whole lot of information about corruption, denial, and artificial Jews. So, yes I am very angry, hurt, and any other adjectives you want to throw into the equation. That is why I have always been an unwavering supporter of UOJ, and will be one till the day I am called up to heaven. UOJ's work is Timeless (sorry I stole that word from you UOJ) and It's imperative we carry on his message.

P.S Does anyone know any good Physicians where I can get my brain checked?

'''' Unforgiven ''''

Anonymous said...

Mondrowitz, regardless of the mistaken relation to the above episode, is still far and away the greatest sordid molester known to frum jews. Him being a Gerrer Chassid and a doctor to boot makes me want to vomit. I know of a boy who after being molested by a family relation was sent to Mondrowitz for therapy only to be reamed again. I wonder if ger had headed the pleas of the Lakewood suiciders father had they not been able to avoid this and other korbonot of the evil doctor.

Hachut Hameshulash Lo Bemehayra Yenataik said...

Ronnie has no shortage of comrades to get together with on this 50s guys / younger girls thing. Besides "Amway" there was also that guy Shelly from a little hicktown called Little Egg Harbor, NJ, who used to raffle off stuff in all the Brooklyn yeshivos. He was actually forbidden to step foot on the property of BMG in Lakewood but no one tried stopping him. He had a little run in with Rav Goldschmidt ztl, the Fallsburg mashgiach, a tzaddik who invited him for Shabbos meals. Shelly was very interested in the daughter just barely out of high school. After he sent her flowers, he was persona non grata in the Goldschmidt home. The nut started picketing the Goldschmidt's house with signs and screaming: "SHIDDUCH SMASHERS!!!"

Lakewood Talmid said...

It seems that Schreiber did not take into account that Mendelsohn may have written the Biur before he became "treif". This is a chiluk that comes up from time to time as in the case of Jastrow.

Since new material on the Gro is popular with yeshivaleit. I was prompted to find the unspecified citation from Krauser's sefer (which I recently purchased myself). It is easy to find being that it's in parshas Beshalach. It is not clear what "Scholar" is trying to prove with a story involving Maimon getting malkus. The subject at hand is the apikorses of Moses Mendelsohn.

The Czar came into possession of a very odd gem that aroused much curiousity. Russian scientists were not able to pinpoint it's nature or origins. The gem was sent to Germany as it was already known for being the most scientifically advanced country in Europe. The Germans were also at a loss and turned to Mendelsohn. Mendelsohn had no luck either and suggested sending it to a rabbi in Vilna. What unfolded seems to prove that Mendelsohn was hoping the Gro would be stumped as well, putting a black mark on his reputation for genius.

The Gro determined that the stone was Sanperinun, mentioned in the Yerushalmi as being able to split water.

Mendelsohn then wasted no time trying to refute the ness of krias yam suf as a natural event, insisting that the mateh Moishe must've been made out of it. The Gro called him an apikores and proved from a diyuk in the posuk that Mendelsohn was wrong on both counts. Typical of his brilliance, the same posuk was also a play on words that told Mendelsohn he's an apikores. The obscure kuntreis is Tzafa bayam by R' Tzvi Pinchos Moskowitz. Many seforim bring this mayseh but only this kuntreis identifies Mendelsohn by name.

Donald Trump said...

Allow me to explain what is bothering the people laughing at Ronnie. It is considered acceptable if a very accomplished and put together fellow takes a much younger trophy wife. The way Ronnie describes himself on this blog however doesn't build him much capital in this regard.

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened at Kolko's last court appearance? Has he gotten out of this? And where is the Lazeruwitz case up to?

Auto Report World Editors said...

Hachut Hameshulash Lo Bemehayra Yenataik said...

Ronnie has no shortage of comrades to get together with on this 50s guys / younger girls thing.


They really didn't bother teaching reading comprehension in your yeshiva, did they.

I'm not attracted to "younger girls", or girls of any age. Unlike yourself, I prefer women.

So far, none of you has bothered to respond to my two points.

1. For much of Jewish history it was not uncommon for widowers to take younger wives, so how is a 25 year old woman marrying a middle aged man "inappropriate"?

2. Would you rather that those 2500 women R. Eidensohn mentioned stayed unmarried and childless, rather than make a life with a man 20 years older than them?

Auto Report World Editors said...

Donald Trump said...

Allow me to explain what is bothering the people laughing at Ronnie. It is considered acceptable if a very accomplished and put together fellow takes a much younger trophy wife. The way Ronnie describes himself on this blog however doesn't build him much capital in this regard.


The Donald, one would think that with all your money you'd get some hair plugs instead of that ridiculous combover. Considering how close you've come to bankruptcy more than once, are you sure the description "put together" applies to you? In light of your remarks, then, you shouldn't mind if Kirk Kerkorian, Steve Wynn or George Soros woos Ivanka. But since you've said your daughter Ivanka has a nice figure and "joked" that you'd date her, I'm not sure you're the best arbiter of what is acceptable.

It isn't my many flaws that bothers them. It's the idea that someone has challenged their petty little social orthodoxies that condemn wonderful young women to spinsterhood, orthodoxies that are not consistent with prior Jewish cultural practices.

Jews used to marry very young. The philosopher Simon Maimon, mentioned above, was married at 12 and a father at 14. All of Gluekel of Hamlin's children were married off by 16. We also use to marry widowers with children to much younger women. We also had a fair amount of cousin marriage as well.

But now, anything the departs from the orthodoxy of a 22 year old bochur marrying a 19 year old seminarienne is considered inappropriate.

Anonymous said...

FROM THE AWARENESS CENTER WEBSITE:

One of the earliest recorded cases of rape within the Jewish community is that of the rape of Tamar the daughter of King David by her half-brother Amnon. Was the incident involving one of the most prominent families in the Jewish community (at both that specific time and all time as well) hushed-up? No.

Tamar took ashes and put them on her head and tore the garment of fine wool that she wore. She did this publicly. The King's daughter publicized her rape. Why? According to R'Yehoshua ben Korchah, by publicizing what had happened to her she raised a great barrier at that time to prevent further assaults of this nature. It was said if such a horrible thing could happen to the daughters of Kings, certainly it could happen to any regular girl. If such a thing could happen to a modest girl like Tamar, it could happen to immodest girls as well.

This public act by Tamar raised the awareness of sexual assault to the general community and this awareness helped protect other women. Did the reaction end there?

No. The Rabbinical community took action as well. They instituted a Rabbinical decree at the time prohibiting certain seclusions to further protect women.

So, I ask the question, why don't our leaders act similarly? I understand we don't have a Sanhedrin, a Kingship, Judges or Prophets. How more we have the need today for both leadership and actions by our leaders.

How many will suffer before our leaders act? How prominent must the victim be and how publicly must they humiliate themselves before we are finally moved to act decisively?

Auto Report World Editors said...

Lakewood Talmid said...

It seems that Schreiber did not take into account that Mendelsohn may have written the Biur before he became "treif". This is a chiluk that comes up from time to time as in the case of Jastrow.


Ummm, I think you meant someone else.

I think the supreme irony about Mendelsohn is how little the movement so closely associated with him, Reform, has to do with him or his beliefs and practices. While he set in motion events that led to the Reform movement, he probably wouldn't have recognized what Geiger and Einhorn came up with. What most indicts Mendelsohn in my mind is that he deliberately did not give his favorite child a Jewish education. Virtually all of his descendants are not Jewish. Though I understand that there is one family of his direct descendants who live in Cincinatti, are 'high' Reform, and they marry only other Jews.

There are elements in MM's life story that get replayed by other Jews, most notably a craven desire to be accepted and honored by goyim.

Does anyone know if R. Shimshon R. Hirsch wrote anything about Mendelsohn?

NP: Live From The West Coast - Steve Kimock Band

Anonymous said...

Good Bye and Good ridennce!

Long Island, NY - The dean of Hofstra University's law school has announced he plans to resign for health reasons, an unexpected development that means the university must conduct another search for a dean after having just ended one two years ago.

"It is with intense sadness that I inform you of my intention to resign as dean on July 31, 2007," Aaron D. Twerski wrote in an e-mail to colleagues.

Twerski, 67, cited his quadruple-bypass surgery two weeks ago and his cardiologist's insistence that the dean's commute from his Brooklyn home to the Hempstead campus and his work responsibilities "are not in my best interest." "I cannot tell you how painful this decision is for me," Twerski wrote.
"The past two years have been an exciting challenge," he added, praising the support from his colleagues as well as that from university President Stuart Rabinowitz and Provost Herman Berliner, "who have provided resources and moral support at every step along the way."

Progress said...

Ronnie still has way too much to say about nothing but at least he's graduated from getting into great detail about how many toppings he put on his burger to excerpting virtually every post on the blog so he can stick in his two cents.

He still has to get over his persecution complex. Has it ever dawned on him that he's being made choizek of by UOJ supporters and not the army of yeshiva conformists that he thinks are lining up to take shots at him?

Syog lechochmo shesika said...

A special jukebox selection for Ronnie.

NP: < UTTER SILENCE>

Anonymous said...

Ronnie,
You are NOT a "widower"! You divorced a kind, lovely woman (or she left you because of your reckless and unstable and jobless lifestyle). So don't start justifying your lust for young women by your idiotic statements about "older widowers taking younger wives". God took "widowers" wives away while you threw yours away.

Rip Van Winkle said...

Ronnie waxes nostalgic for the days of yore but conveniently ignores that people heed the societal norms of today's age.

Until recently women were forced to accept financial dependence on men. In many cases, they would settle on any loser or zhlob who happened along. Today things have gone to the other extreme which is not ideal either. Women are financially independent. This has led to a disasterous situation where almost no one is good enough for them. This is not spoken about publicly but a number of roshei yeshiva agree this is the metzius. It is not always the fault of the women as many men have a problem committing to marriage for various reasons too.

The day is too short but Ronnie has somehow managed to annoy people in the last 24 hours with his whine chronicles about how he's denied landing himself a 30 year old woman (for sexual purposes he said himself) because of the crazy yeshivish mindset. Boy is this guy preposterous. Because the dreamer keeps insisting, I won't hold it back. I don't believe any 25 year old woman in their right mind would choose him over staying single. Please don't embarrass yourself & press me on why.

Speaking of Ruchelsman said...

He's one tough judge. So tough in fact that the liberal NYC establishment had to switch him out of criminal to civil. The crooks & bad guys were terrified of him and called him The Rock. There probably wasn't a single case where he didn't throw the book at them. He's even causing a stir in civil cases now. He throws out tort lawsuits all the time, decisions that are later reversed by higher courts.

Friends of Ronnie Category on J-Date said...

This is a true story but I'm sure the woman would be ashamed if her name was published. A woman we know in her 40s is into the internet dating thing. She was contacted by a fellow in Detroit. He was initially vague about what he does for a living. They started talking on the phone when the guy was forced to admit he's unemployed. The woman thanked him for his interest but informed him that she cannot be involved with someone who has no means of income. He tried to argue but to no avail. His parting shot to her while blowing off enough steam to power a generator: "Oh, you New York women are so picky!"

Bnei Brak Mohel said...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3360954,00.html

The mila industry in Israel will be holding a job fair in Detroit. We hear there are some fellows who are currently unemployed and looking for promising new opportunities.

Jewish Survivors of Sexual Violence Speaks Out! said...

Please help a survivor of child sexual abuse reunite with her siblings.

CALL TO ACTION: Contact Rabbi Yaakov Hopfer in Baltimore and tell him to let the daughter of Eisgrau communicate with her siblings.

Rabbi Yaakov Hopfer
President, Association of Orthodox rabbis in Greater Baltimore
410-358-8281

For more information about this go here:
http://jewishsurvivors.blogspot.com/2007/02/call-to-action-rabbi-eliezer-eisgrau.html

and also read about the case here:
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/eisgrau_eliezer.html

Auto Report World Editors said...

Progress said...

Ronnie still has way too much to say about nothing but at least he's graduated from getting into great detail about how many toppings he put on his burger to excerpting virtually every post on the blog so he can stick in his two cents.


You put toppings on a pizza or an ice cream sundae. Burgers and dogs get condiments. For burgers I prefer tomato ketchup on one side, mustard (honey dijon is best but plain old French's will do) on the other, a slice of ripe tomato and slices of a proper kosher dill (no vinegar - homemade is best but Topor's are very good). Hot dogs get ketchup, mustard, diced tomato and sauerkraut.

He still has to get over his persecution complex. Has it ever dawned on him that he's being made choizek of by UOJ supporters and not the army of yeshiva conformists that he thinks are lining up to take shots at him?

Does that mean you're a supporter of UOJ?

Has it ever dawned on you that the primary target of my humor and ire is myself? I'm not a victim and I don't feel persecuted. Most of my problems are my own doing and I try to take the advice in Brachos about m'fashfesh b'ma'asav seriously.

Besides, the people that froomies harm most are themselves.

BTW, could you come up with a less awkward form of Yiddlish than "being made choizek of by"? My dikduk isn't as good as it could be but wouldn't "he's m'tzachek by" or "he's m'la'eg by" be a little more elegant?

Auto Report World Editors said...

Syog lechochmo shesika said...

A special jukebox selection for Ronnie.

NP: < UTTER SILENCE>


No, no, no! It would have been much funnier if you used the same nic but had an empty post. Conceptual comedy. Syog l'chochma sh'tika said nothing.

I just love tilting at windmills.

He's still not on the map said...

Ronnie seems to think that Lakewood talmid mistakenly referred to him. The Schreiber mentioned is the Bar Ilan professor who lectured at YU about Mendelsohn.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Hey Guys...

Any chance we can talk about real issues that have impact on our future as a People?

Anonymous said...

This blog is getting sicker and sicker.

UOJ and Rabbi Eidenshon engage in a debate on some very important topics. How many of these comments are on that topic and how many are on unrelated topics concerning Ronnie, etc.?

I believe that the blog readership has a collective case of ADD!

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

Please provide an update for your interested readership on:

Kolko, Margo, TT
Eiseman, Ner Israel
Nussbaun, YOB
Leizerowitz
Mondrowitx

Are there any other cases related to Yeshivas w/coverup that you will break?

This is the news that we are really interested in hearing - not every Joe Putz's personal gripe or take on someone in the community that they do not like.

Anonymous said...

I'm being serious here - I think we ought to publicize the names of any "gedolim" who give berachos and ask for money for doing so.

Let these bastards know that the days of their getting a free pass are over!

Suggestion to UOJ said...

There are inane posts from Ronnie that you allow to appear that generate negative responses because people want to read the issues as well as the entertaining posts without being distracted by clutter from a lonely soul using your page as a sounding board. Sometimes Ronnie will say something on topic, like about shidduchim, but because he spoke out of his posterior, people let him have it. When Ronnie then turns around to rehash every response, he often contributes nothing new other than to further verify what a confused individual he is. I somehow suspect the natives wouldn't get restless if Ronnie's posts are limited to where he has something to offer.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Anon 10:27,

All of the above names you mentioned are aggressively being dealt with. I can not give you any more details at the moment.

The yeshivas/rabbis are on notice, there is no way they can get away with this criminal behavior any longer.

That goes for Agudath Israel and Torah Umesorah as well.

They all are much more concerned about
the blogs, than the sins! We really have a pathetic group of idiots walking around pretending to care about your welfare.

Joe Putz said...

UOJ, is there any indication of what's going on with Gottesman since he took over from Shea Fishman? Are they drifting like a rudderless ship? Are they assisting the Agudah cover up goon squad? Or are they finally doing something right because of all the negative attention? I don't have any high hopes because as a division of the Agudah, I don't know how much autonomy Torah Umesorah has. There was talk that the Agudah might be spinning them off to legally protect their ass(-et)s. I hear that they did so with JEP and that the OU had NCSY incorporate separately to avoid liabilities after the Lanner scandal.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The Agudah and Torah Umesorah are in bed with each other. The same group of pitiful rabbis are on both boards.

Imagine, Gottesman, a flunky ex-lawyer, is the best that Torah Umesorah can come up with.

The rabbis won't let "thinkers" with brains in, look at Shafran, Zweibel, Bloom, Gottessman. I'm surprised they have not dug up Moe, Larry & Curly!

"Special Master" Aaron Twerski said...

But Twerski won't help out first-responder UOJ. He's on the side of YTT terrorists and Lipa Arafat.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jan07/9.11.illnesses.html

Jan. 26, 2007

New York City is facing a number of lawsuits regarding lingering respiratory illnesses that many workers and rescue personnel claim result from working on the World Trade Center site after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. Studies by such organizations as Mount Sinai Medical Center and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have agreed that the hazardous conditions at the site can be the source of these illnesses.

To investigate the legal cases, Cornell Law School professor James A. Henderson Jr. has been appointed by Southern District Judge Alvin Hellerstein as a special master, along with Aaron D. Twerski, dean of the Hofstra University School of Law.

"Professor Henderson is an obvious choice for special master insofar as he is one of the leading thinkers in tort law," says Michael Heise, professor of law at the Cornell Law School. "His first-rate scholarship draws on a deep reservoir of knowledge, experience, judgment and creative thinking, all of which will assist the judge in the difficult task before him."

Henderson and Twerski have been asked to make an undisputed list of the cases and to categorize them to help organize the legal process. In appointing the two legal experts, Hellerstein mentioned in particular their impartiality and unparalleled skills.

Experts in the field of mass tort litigation, they have written texts and law review articles together, including "Cases and Materials on the Law of Torts" in 2003.

Henderson has an A.B. from Princeton University and an LL.B. and LL.M. from Harvard Law School. He clerked for the Hon. Warren L. Jones of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and then taught at Boston University Law School for 20 years before, in 1984, joining Cornell Law School, where he is the Frank B. Ingersoll Professor of Law. His scholarship and teaching addresses theoretical, practical and process concerns in the fields of products liability and torts. In addition to serving as the co-reporter of the American Law Institute's revision of the products liability portions of the "Restatement of the Law of Torts from 1992-1998," Henderson has testified extensively on torts, products liability and insurance before the U.S. Senate and House, as well as before numerous state legislatures.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

And criminal-coverup artist and influence peddler Aaron Twerski got his degree from Beth Medrash Elyon, signed by the tort specialist Rabbi Gedalya Schorr.

Anonymous said...

I thought R Schorr was on your A list

Back of the Bus said...

Did anyone condemn this besides R' Yonosson Rosenbloom?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070203.wxisrael03/BNStory/International/home

Remember the woman who was beaten on an Egged bus by haredim because she refused to move to the rear?

…"There's a concept in Jewish law which is that silence is acquiescence. And when the rabbinical leaders hear about a store being burned down . . . when people are being sprayed with bleach on the street because their clothes are not considered modest enough, when women are being beaten on buses, when these things are going on and the rabbinical leaders say nothing, there is an appearance that it is condoned," Ms. Shear said in a telephone interview from her home in Canada, emphasizing that she respects Haredi values but regards the violence as a tragedy that cannot be ignored. "I've come under a lot of heat for publicizing this. But I've stood my ground."…

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

I undestand that you can't give details on the various cases, but we have heard that something at YOB is iminent for close to a year now and life just goes on. Give us an indication of what might go down.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

I did NOT mean to c"v denigrate R' Schorr, I meant to denigrate Twerski's credibility. On his resume , he has no problem putting the B.M.E. degree as a secular credential.

Influence Peddler & Tort Putz said...

From Twerski's Amazon profile:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-1303379-8726300?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Aaron%20D.%20Twerski

Products Liability: Problems and Process (Casebook Series) by James A. Henderson and Aaron D. Twerski (Hardcover - Mar 2004)

Torts: Cases and Materials (Casebook Series) by Aaron D. Twerski and James A. Henderson (Hardcover - Mar 2004)

Products Liability and the Reasonably Safe Products by Alvin S. Weinstein, Aaron D Twerski, Henry R. Piehler, and William A. Donaher (Hardcover - Oct 1978)

From the wrong end of the telescope: a response to professor David Bernstein.(response to article in this issue, p. 1961): An article from: Michigan Law Review by Margaret A. Berger and Aaron D. Twerski (Digital - Sep 1, 2006)

Intent and recklessness in tort: The practical craft of restating law: An article from: Vanderbilt Law Review by James A Jr Henderson and Aaron D Twerski (Digital - Sep 9, 2005)

What Europe, Japan and other countries can learn from the new American restatement of products liability: An article from: Texas International Law Journal by James A Jr Henderson and Aaron D Twerski (Digital - Aug 12, 2005)

Cases on products liability by Aaron D Twerski (Unknown Binding - 1974)

Conflict of laws by Aaron D Twerski (Unknown Binding - 1976)

Enlightened territorialism and Professor Cavers: The Pennsylvania method by Aaron D Twerski (Unknown Binding - 1971)

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Anon 12:48,

Nussbaum is no longer a rebbe there. If parents want their kids tutored by him, damn the idiot parents.

Mandel will wake up one day soon with the gory details of his past for everyone to see who Shlomo Mandel is!

Gedult...I'm trying to not hurt us anymore than I absolutely have to. I'm NOT getting enjoyment out of doing this. It hurts real bad!

Aaron Twerski said...

Please don't tattle on me to Judge Hellerstein and tell him how bad I've been. You can take away my being Dean, but I need that Master title.

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

Why did you go to all-out war with TT with a letter campaign and all while you have shown more gedult with the others?

Anonymous said...

"If parents want their kids tutured by him damn the idiot parents"

UOJ- I think we need to stress the power of parents more. What is going on here is that they give too much credence to yeshivas and schools, they just dump their kids in whichever school either gives them the biggest break in tuition or looks good for shidduchim- or both, and then wash their hands and sit back and if there's a "scandal" they're like- oh I can't believe it, can't be true, I had no idea....etc. They take NO RESPONSIBILITY as parents!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Look, every single parent and adult in Brooklyn Knows that Yehuda Nussbaum was fired/retired, and they know why.

Every single adult in Brooklyn knew at the time Shlomo Mandel hired Kolko to proctor final exams/Regents, that Kolko is a sexual predator and even the Bastard "Mug"uglies fired him.

What in the world is one guy to do?

How many parents as of yet pulled their kids out of YTT in protest?

Why is Rabbi Schustal still there?

How many people did not go to the Agudah Fress Convention in protest?

On & on!

UOJ, You'd be Surprised said...

There is a rov Brooklyn has has quietly worked behind the scenes to get rid of molesters. I recently asked him about Nussbaum. He knows Nussbaum and never heard there were any complaints against him. He was shocked that there was enough there to give you an impetus to move against him & YOB.

Maybe the parent body up until last year knows about it, but who says that parents of incoming kids have any idea if even this rov doesn't know? This rov knows about and has been involved in more cases than have ever been mentioned on this blog.

ANd what about kids how come to the basement for shaatnez and whatever else "checking"? I highly doubt that gantz Boro Park is in the loop.

Simcha Klohr said...

"they just dump their kids in whichever school gives them the biggest break in tuition"

How do you think I enticed parents to send their kids to me? Now UOJ is giving away trade secrets too?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

If it's the rov I'm thinking of, he's pretending he does not know. They're all full of it.

Anonymous said...

It seems there has been a misunderstanding on this blog of Rabbi Herschel Schachter's position on mesirah regarding sex abusers.

Rabbi Schachter gave a shiur on mesirah on Sunday, December 3, 2006, at a Teaneck synagogue. Not long after, an audio link to the shiur was made available on the Hirhurim blog, and Torah.org. After listening to the shiur, a few people came away with the impression that Rav Schachter's opinion was that it is prohibited mesirah to inform the police about a sex abuser, where the information might lead to the accused being incarcerated in a dangerous state prison; on the other hand, it would not be prohibited mesirah to report a federal crime of sex abuse, because it is well-known that federal prisons are safer.

To clarify this misconception, Hirhurim put up a new post, "Should I Call the Police II", with a link to a TorahWeb.org article, written by Rabbi Schachter. An editor's note states, "The following is a follow-up article to the shiur..." In this six-paragraph article, Rav Schachter writes, "However, mesirah is permitted in situations where one is a PUBLIC menace (see Shach to Choshen Mishpat 388,59), or if one is physically or psychologically harming another individual (for example, in instances of sexual abuse of children, students, campers etc., or spousal abuse)(see Shach to Choshen Mishpat ibid, 45). The Jewish community does not have the ability to investigate these types of cases. Wherever there are raglayim ladavar that there seems to be a problem, the proper government agencies should be contacted to investigate."

Kalman "the Fink" Finkel said...

"they just dump their kids in whichever school ... looks good for shidduchim"

It's a good thing I sent my boys down the YTT to Brisk pipeline after all those scandals that got me fired from the NYC Housing Authority.

Anonymous said...

Tsh, tsh, gentlemen. I was a widow at a young age with two small children. Several years later, at age 24, I was finally married to a man 17 years older than myself, because all those nice young guys didn't want a widow with kids. I'm now, ummm, quite a bit older, and I'm not sorry I married an older man. A guy with some common sense and experience is not a bad thing.

Twerski's & Margo's Buddies said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_K._Hellerstein

I wonder if Hellerstein is frum as a number of attorneys at Stroock & Stroock & Lavan are.

This putz ruled against the US Govt & in favor of the ACLU and honorable al Qaeda terrorists.

Does anyone see the pattern here? Margo's lawyer Avi Moskowitz represented al Qaeda terrorist Ramzi Yousef yemach shmoy who tried to take down the World Trade Center the first time.

At first I thought UOJ was joking that Margo is the secret alternate identity of Yasser Arabfart. It would seem that UOJ also has sources deep inside US Intelligence who figured this one out.

Saddened by the death of T. Kagan said...

It has been mentioned on a different blog by "friends" of Kagan, that there was a drug abuse issue, NOT a history of child sex abuse. Coroner in FL received documentation from North Shore hospital that he also attempted
suicide a few months earlier by popping an excessive amount of "pain-killers", I don't believe they were referring to Tylenol. For the school
to attempt to cover up this sad story as a "slip & fall accident" vs. the difficult truth of a Suicide, does absolutley NOTHING to help other troubled teens in desperate need of professional help. May his untimely petira be a wake-up call for all of us to do all we can for our "kids at risk".

Anonymous said...

Maybe someone should speak up at the Agudah "Come-fress-in" to these parents who's brains are so dull from not using them.
Why do parents have to pull their kids out "in protest?" Do you care about your children? If you heard that your child's teacher had a gun and would regularly use it on his students and the school did nothing about it and finally someone had enough of this cover up and had him arrested for endangering the welfare of children and abusing the children, would YOU LEAVE YOUR CHILD THERE???
"damn those idiot parents"!

Anonymous said...

Dear lady,

I am happy that you found a man to make your home with. Besides your 41 year old zivug, there are also men in their 30s who would have been interested. All of the above are more appropriate than a guy in his 50s who is unemployed and uses the UOJ blog to kvetch about his finances and other shortcomings. He was the reason for what you've read here, not the fine man who took your hand in marriage.

Auto Report World Editors said...

So what's the solution?

Getting rid of criminals is only the first, necessary, step.

How do we go from here to make a more healthy community? What mechanisms can be established so that schools and non profits have oversight? How do we choose wiser leaders? How do we make our schools do a better job of preparing Jews for life?

Any concrete suggestions?

Is any of this really possible?

Anonymous said...

To answer Ronnie's question, recall what Rudy Guiliani once famously said about the now-defunct New York City Board of Education, a quasi-independent agency unaccountable to the Mayor, and therefore, the voters. Take a bomb, and blow it up. He was speaking figuratively, of course.

The State Legislature then passed some new laws, and formed a new New York City DEPARTMENT of Education, accountable to the Mayor, and therefore, the voters. They changed their name, address, and the entire legal mechanisim under which they were operating.

There's nothing complicated about this. Every Jew, rich and poor, should walk away from Torah U'Mesorah and Aguda. The rich Jews, the g'virim, in particular, need to start afresh a new organization. Our children are being killed by the TU-Aguda krumkeit, literally and figuratively. Its enough.

Anonymous said...

Ronnie, did you ever read the book "Life with Mother"?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Wherever there are raglayim ladavar that there "seems" to be a problem, the proper government agencies should be contacted to investigate."

Regarding the word "seem" in Rav Schachter's psak, who decides "seem"?

I say, let the POLICE decide in every single case, at least until we understand the magnitude of the problem.

Remember, collectively, between Eismann, Kolko, Nussbaum & Leizerowitz, there's 120 years of molestation, that we know about, in yeshivas.

"Seem" IS a problem, and it needs and demands police involvement!

Rav Schachter would do us all well by being very clear about this point!

Auto Report World Editors said...

who is unemployed

Self-employed and busy, baruch HaShem.

Defense Intelligence Agency said...

We just received a frantic phone call from Valerie Plame's husband Joe Wilson. He's afraid that someone is trying to blow the cover of a double agent who poses as both a Brooklyn rosh yeshiva and Chairman of the Palestinian Authority. We wish to remind everyone of the federal Intelligence Identities protection Act which would also preclude UOJ from revealing his sources.

Free Pollard said...

The Agudah issued a call from the Moetzes to petition the POTUS on Pollard's behalf. This they consider to be top priority.

xxxxx

AGUDATH ISRAEL RABBINIC BODIES ISSUE CALL ON BEHALF OF JONATHAN POLLARD




The distinguished senior rabbis who comprise Agudath Israel of America’s Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah (Council of Torah Sages), as well as the members of Agudath Israel’s Rabbinic Presidium and close to 100 signatories from its Conference of Synagogue Rabbis have issued a declaration calling on “all caring Jews” to deliver “a message to President Bush” that Jonathan Pollard, the convicted American Jewish spy who has languished in prison for twenty-two years, “has served long enough, and that the time has come to free him.”

The rabbinical statement comes after the United States Supreme Court denied an appeal by Mr. Pollard of a 2006 lower court decision that cut off what would seem to be the final judicial avenue that could have led to a reconsideration of his life sentence. It notes that that Mr. Pollard’s “health [is] deteriorating because of his incarceration,” and that his life sentence was “a penalty far more severe than that imposed upon others who committed similar or even more serious crimes.”

“Only the President of the United States,” the declaration continues, “by granting Mr. Pollard executive clemency, can save him from spending the rest of his life behind bars.”

The following is the full text of the Agudath Israel rabbis’ statement:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DECLARATION REGARDING JONATHAN POLLARD




Shvat 5767
January 2007



The heart-wrenching plight of Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew who is serving a life sentence for spying for Israel and is currently in his 22nd year of captivity, demands our urgent attention.

Mr. Pollard’s life sentence – a penalty far more severe than that imposed upon others who committed similar or even more serious crimes – is difficult to comprehend. His lawyers have made various efforts through the courts to have his sentence reconsidered, all to no avail. At this time, it appears that all legal avenues through the judicial system have been shut off. Only the President of the United States, by granting Mr. Pollard executive clemency, can save him from spending the rest of his life behind bars.

Already years ago, Gedolei Yisroel called upon all Jews to do whatever they possibly can to try to help Mr. Pollard gain his freedom. Now that his legal appeals have been exhausted, and with his health deteriorating because of his incarceration, we reiterate that call with a renewed sense of urgency.

We call upon all caring Jews who understand the importance of being nosei b’ol im chaveiro and the imperative of pidyon shvuyim to convey the message to President Bush that Mr. Pollard has served long enough, and that the time has come to free him.

May Hashem Yisborach, the ultimate Matir asurim, look down with favor upon our efforts and place in the heart of the President the resolve at long last to grant Yehonoson ben Malka his freedom.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a follow-up to the rabbinic declaration, Agudath Israel is joining a number of Jewish organizations asking Americans who support the cause of Mr. Pollard’s freedom to telephone the White House daily between the hours of 11:00 AM and 2:00 PM Eastern Standard Time until Passover with requests for the President’s granting of clemency for the imprisoned Jew.

Anonymous said...

Ronnie, stop making a fool out of yourself. The last time around on this blog you didn't paint quite the rosy picture of yourself that you are now, between your explanation of what your "employment" consisted of, and other personal details that are highly embarrassing to any reasonable person, who would certainly never trumpet them in public like you did. And who are you trying to kid that you are "busy" ? You devote more wordy posts saying nothing than anyone else here.

Anonymous said...

There "SEEMS" to be a problem.
If your house was burning on fire would you stand around and say there SEEMS to be a problem?? NO! You'd call the fire dept!, run for help, get rescue teams, go to great lengths!!
For some reason when there's great pshychological danger they just don't get it.

Anonymous said...

"Wherever there are raglayim ladavar that there seems to be a problem, the proper government agencies should be contacted to investigate."

I'm not getting the critics of Rav Schachter's article. The broader the language, the better. He did not write, "Wherever there is concrete evidence...", call the government. He did not write, "Wherever there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt...", call the government. He did not write, "Wherever there are two witnesses...", call the government. He did not write, "Wherever there is scientific evidence...", call the government.

"Reglayim ladavar" is customarily understood as, circumstantial evidence, or even just circumstances. This is a broad term.

"Seems" is customarily understood to mean something less than direct or hard evidence; hearsay, even credible rumor.

What are the critics complaining about? Nothing written can ever take in all possible factual scenarios. Rabbi Schachter used broad language for when the government should be called. This is one of the best rabbinic opinions I've come across, in writing, in English, disseminated to thousands of Jews. Thank you, Rabbi Schachter.

Anonymous said...

UOJ,
I think that R Shachter meant what you said. If he had stated, 'wherever there IS a problem call the authorities', then all the local Rabbits would say that they couldn't go to the authorities b/c there wasn't a problem, there only seemed to be a problem and mere chashash is not enough to go moser.

But by saying that you need to go to the police even where there only seems to be a problem, R Shachter is saying that the Rabbi doesn't have to make a judgment call and doesn't have to fully investigate. As soon as there seems to be a problem, he has to transfer the matter into knowledgable hands.

Anonymous said...

UOJ you are off mark on R'Heschel Schchter. He has come out quite clearly and strongly and you are criticizing him as well.

What he has done is miles ahead of any other "leader" and you nitpick on his choice of words.

I believe that most people who heard his statement were quite impressed. THere was none of the usual equivocating.

UOJ you should retract your critique of someone who deserves your admiration.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The "horaas shah" or the times and circumstances on this issue, requires unusual clarity. I applaud his position; I'm also asking for absolute clarity on this point.

Until now nobody took a childs' word seriously on this issue. More than that; when a child is acting differently than usual, his/her grades start dropping, the child becomes agitated easier than usual....all the signs that a parent must consider, and have not probed in the past, are issues all parents MUST deal with.

So much more so when a child says that someone touched him/her inappropriately.

We are living in very dangerous times, clarity like, GO TO THE POLICE must be expressed. No time for pilpulim or diyukim. CLARITY! Not Authorities, or proper Authorities, GO TO THE POLICE!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

I am not criticizing Rav Schachter at all, I praise him greatly for his position.

I HAVE TREMENDOUS KAVOD AND ADMIRATION FOR RAV SCHACHTER SHLITA!

He's a giant, way heads over heels over what else passes as rabbis today.

I have been so surprised by the ignorance of the klal, that I'm wanting to take away from them any excuses they will come up with in the name of daas Torah.

GO TO THE POLICE! GO TO THE POLICE! GO TO THE POLICE!

I'M HAVING A BREAKDOWN! GO TO THE POLICE! GO TO THE POLICE! GO TO THE POLICE!PLEASE GO TO THE POLICE! PRETTY PLEASE! PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP!

Anonymous said...

Rav Schachter said, "GOVERNMENT authorities". He didn't say, your Rosh Yeshiva, or menahel. He said, "Government". Most states, like New York, have child abuse hotlines - you can call them, and they'll take a report, and will call the police. Or, you can call your State Education Department, and they'll take a report and call the police. Or, you can call the police directly.

I think Rav Schachter said "government authorities", rather than just police, so as to cover both those abuse situations which are clearly criminal, such as sex abuse, and other situations which may need a civil, not a criminal approach - e.g, a rebbe pushes or pulls a misbehaving child; a child complains that his father potched him too hard.

In general, there is too much criticism on this blog of people on our side trying to help, of Rabbi Schachter, Rabbi Eidensohn, Rabbi Horowitz, Rabbi Gil Student. Let's at least be goal-oriented.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

GO TO THE POLICE GO TO THE POLICE GO TO THE POLICE GO TO THE POLICE!

gross said...

...The last time around on this blog you didn't paint quite the rosy picture of yourself that you are now, between your explanation of what your "employment" consisted of...
---------------------------------
Anonymous:

Hasn't Ronnie demonstrated that he is self-employed and owns an online and retail custom embroidery business? His work and hobbies seem creative, fulfilling, and enjoyable too - at least for him it does. Why should it matter for anyone else?

Anon 3:25 - Best post of the day said...

"Every Jew, rich and poor, should walk away from Torah U'Mesorah and Aguda. The rich Jews, the g'virim, in particular, need to start afresh a new organization. Our children are being killed by the TU-Aguda krumkeit, literally and figuratively. Its enough."

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the compliment, Best Post... This is a little bit awkward to day, but true, I'm somewhat of a somebody, and I wrote it. In fact, I've written a few posts today. I wish I had some serious money to get something going, but I don't. I do, however, have my
G-d-given brains, and believe me, they're working overtime lately. If anybody out there is reading this, and if you have just even a moderate amount of serious money, please, do something, even something unconventional like taking out an ad in the Jewish papers for organizing a meeting in a hall, or in a large home. You'll be surprised to see who shows up.

Gilligan Student said...

Anon 6:06, just give me the microphone and I'll be the first one there! (Especially because I have to beat Yaakov Horowitz to it before he steals the limelight)

Anonymous said...

Gross, people have been annoyed with Ronnie for some time now, but I don't think this pile on would have occurred had he not touted himself as a prime catch for girls 20 years his junior, who's nebich being obstructed by closed-minded yeshivishe morons. It's kind of you to stick up for him, but I seriously doubt you would set him up with your 30 year old sister. Since having publicly discussed himself for the last year, there are many reasons that he himself wrote that would make his proposed shidduch game plan nothing short of preposterous.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Anything I post in response only continues a pissing contest that further detracts from this blog. Mean spirited Jews are so depressing.

Yeshivishe Nudnik said...

Maybe UOJ can get his hands on the copy of the psak from Rav Elyashev to turn in molesters. If the Agudah is hiding it there must be something there that they don't want publicized.

Anonymous said...

If a woman is 35 and not married, 20 years older than her is better than nothing.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

I've seen the actual ksav, I just don't remember where. Readers...can you get a copy for me to post please?

The Cat Got Avi Shafran's Tongue said...

Pollard has been incarcerated for 23 years. What about a 39 year old guy who has lived through 33 years of hell after being molested by Kolko and frasked by Margo?

Anonymous said...

"If a woman is 35 and not married, 20 years older than her is better than nothing."

Maybe if the guy is accomplished and put together, otherwise I'd think you'd find yourself in disagreement with not only the girls themselves but also unbiased meyaetzim. The biggest problem 35 year old girls have is spurning good opportunities where the men are more age appropriate.

Anonymous said...

Why did the Agudah suddenly wake up?

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2002/121302.htm

Does this mean they will issue a proclamation about Kolko in another 15 years? I can't wait.

Auto Report World Editors said...

touted himself as a prime catch for girls 20 years his junior, who's nebich being obstructed by closed-minded yeshivishe morons.

That's complete and utter bullshit. You're insane. And an asshole. Wait, scratch that. Assholes have a purpose.

Anyone can read the threads.

I simply asked the following question on another thread:

"I wonder how many of those 2500 25 year old women would consider marrying a man 10 or 20 years older than them?"

We've already established that you're reading comprehension is poor, now you demonstrate the your yeshiva didn't have a very good math program either. I'm 52. Do the math. I couldn't have been talking about myself.

The rest is all your own fantasy straw man. I'm sure you have other fantasies as well.

UOJ, this shit is getting tiresome. I'm trying to be a good guest here and play by your rules and stick to the point.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Please stay on subject. Everyone needs a place to vent; on this blog we want to hear about tzarchei tzibbur, or the needs of the Jewish people. Once in a while a quick silly retort is ok, but let's keep a lid on it.

Please!

Anonymous said...

From, "Informing on Others for Violating American Law: A Jewish Law View", by Rabbi Michael J. Broyde:

"Thus, it is clear, that one must report allegations of child abuse (sexual or physical) when one is aware of it (even if this means that the child might be placed in a Gentile foster home). Fn 102

Fn 102 Abraham Sofer Abraham, Nishmat Avraham Volume 4, pages 307-311, quotes responsa from Rabbis Auerbach, Elyashiv and Waldenberg in agreement on this point, that one must report cases of child abuse. No alternative view is quoted in this encyclopedic work. Rabbi Abraham writes:

'A child or infant who is brought to a hospital with symptoms of being a battered child......it is prohibited, after an investigation to return him to his home as they will continue to beat him until he might die. Because of the real danger, it is obligatory for the doctor to inform the courts, and with an order from the court, place the child with a foster parent or agency. There is no problem of informing since we are dealing with danger to life and the parents are the pursuers. This is permitted even if they will place the child, due to no choice, with a family or agency that is secular. It is incumbent upon the Jewish court to do everything in its power to insure that the child is placed with an observant family or agency. Particularly in the diaspora it is important the Jewish court work to insure that the child not be placed with a Gentile family or agency. Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach agreed with all of the above.

Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyahiv recounted to me that it is permitted for the doctor to inform the authorities even if it is possible that the child will be placed with a family or agency that is not Jewish.....

Rabbi Waldenberg wrote 'if there is a real risk that the parents will continue to hit the child.....it is obligatory for the doctor to report the matter to the police.....'Sexual abuse (of either boys and girls) is no different than physical abuse [Rabbis Waldenberg, Elyashiv and Auerbach agree that reporting is mandatory also.] Rabbi Elyashiv writes 'there is no difference between boys and girls since one is dealing with a seriously life wounding event (pegiah nafshit) and a danger to the public.....this is much more serious than theft and one certainly must report this matter to the school administration and if nothing is done, even to the police in the diaspora.'"

The entire Broye article is available on JLaw.com.

Auto Report World Editors said...

To Mr. "I'm somewhat of a somebody",

Okay, let's move this forward.

Why wait for someone else and who needs the Jewish *papers? UOJ has demonstrated the power of the internet. Set up a web site. I'll help.

*Most of which deny reality and don't deserve advertising dollars.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Indeed Ronnie, and I'll give you all the publicity you need for free! Set it up!

Still Wonderin' said...

about the boy who died last week. the issue was not covered up by anyone involved. the school is dealing with the matter extensively, and openly. however, in a matter prescribed by professionals. the reason it may seem that there is a cover up is because in cases such as this, copycat incidents are a great concern. therefore, the mental health and media professionals advise downplaying many details and approaching the subject in a non-sensational way. the incident is ripe for speculation. however, it would be an act of true ahavas yisroel and ahavas chesed to refrain from speculating on possible reasons why the boy did what he did, and especially not to air them in this public forum. we can only imagine how painful this is for the family, the boy's classmates, and the surrounding community. please try not to deepen the wound with speculative statements, even if well meaning.

Anonymous said...

To - Ronnie

From - Mr. Somewhat of a Somebody

Get us the g'vir Gary T. in Detroit, then we'll talk. When you get him, have Gary put his name and address on this blog, asking interested people to talk to him. Then Gary advertises in all the papers, and we have our New York meeting. If you can't get Gary, get somebody else. Kapish? (Farshtesht?)

I'm not joking. Some of us on this blog have done more than enough. Its your turn big mouth. (I say that with some affection.)

Auto Report World Editors said...

How's this for starters?

There are accreditation organizations that accredit colleges and high schools. There are non profit agencies and professional organizations like United Laboratories, ISO, and others that establish standards of certification. There are bonding agencies for all sorts of professions. And there are still, hopefully, reliable kashrus supervision agencies.

What is needed is an independent organization that would audit a school to ensure basic standards are in place. At the very minimum, standards for protecting children from molesters, and financial transparency and accountability. It would be nice to include basic secular studies standards as well.

Then the question is how do you get the schools to accept the process? Just as quality standards like ISO have been demanded by customers, I say focus on educating customers, the parents about the need for such standards, including the integrity of the accrediting agency to be created, and then the parents will demand that the school be accredited.

Do it with the utmost of integrity and best available knowledge. Get a few rabbis like R. Eidensohn and R. Schachter and R. Broyde to get on board and hopefully endorsements by the few true gedolim.

A well thought out plan, the right endorsements, and parental support providing market pressure and I think the schools might get in line.

Manekin Pis said...

http://www.snued.ch/TravelLogBook/2002/Br%FCssel2002/images/prevs/prev10.jpg

Ronnie was very suggestive in earlier posts about young women marrying someone much older. Even his later question form equation of woman 25, man 45, or 30 to 50, is not usually appropriate, his description of sexual proclivities notwithstanding. It doesn't take a trip to Belgium to figure out that it may be a pissing match, but that Ronnie is pissing in the wind.

There is another problem with shidduchim. The current asher yatzar gedolim do not allow fraternizing between sexes that would lead to more marriages. See the Mishna on Tu B'Av about the singles event in the time of Chazal. The pirush Meleches Shlomo at the back of Yachin Uboaz makes clear there is no question that singles events are allowed. More recently, Rav Gifter said that making mixed sex singles events is a chiyuv but some bird brained Aguda-niks went running to R' Elya to override him (they lied to R' Elya about the metzius). They then badmouthed Rav Gifter, thinking they could make him oiss godol.

Auto Report World Editors said...

To - Ronnie

From - Mr. Somewhat of a Somebody

Get us the g'vir Gary T. in Detroit, then we'll talk. When you get him, have Gary put his name and address on this blog, asking interested people to talk to him. Then Gary advertises in all the papers, and we have our New York meeting. If you can't get Gary, get somebody else. Kapish? (Farshtesht?)

I'm not joking. Some of us on this blog have done more than enough. Its your turn big mouth. (I say that with some affection.)


I know him and can possibly approach him. I don't know how much credibility I have with him, but he's very close to my rabbi and we've known each other for many years.

Before I'm willing to approach him I'll need a "somebody's" name to give me some kind of credibility. Otherwise it's just Ronnie ranting on a street corner. And, yes, he was the first person that I thought of when you first raised the issue. He understands politics and is pretty well connected to the establishment (check inside a recent Artscroll siddur).

Mr. Somewhat of a Somebody, contact me via email @ rokem@netzero.net.

Get With the Program said...

I applaud the knowledgable Rabbi Broyde for penning that article but he is not exactly on the same level as geonim like Rav Schechter and a formidable talmid chochom like Rav Eidensohn who was zocheh to learn by Rav Kotler. Rabbi Broyde is a very controversial figure for reasons that are not stellar. Ask people from his hometown or poskim who have had to sort out some situations he has caused.

Sincere help from Ronnie is welcome but I don't think he would have much credence if he was running the show or controlling editorial content of a website dealing with the future of yeshiva students.

Anonymous said...

YTT parents and those that allow Nussbaum to tutor their kids are probably Rubashkin customers. They're not interested in the truth.

Yisroel Belsky said...

If the parents deny allegations against molesters with salty language, then they're not just Rubashkin customers. By george, they're Rubashkin truck drivers!

CIA said...

"Why did the Agudah suddenly wake up?

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2002/121302.htm"

As jews we must feel for Mr. Pollard, but as an American he is guilty of treason. If it was just the Iraqi nuclear reactor (which he only gave to the Israelis when they agreed to pay him $100,000.)he would have been released. He sold other classified documents to other countries.

exposemolesters said...

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

If it's the rov I'm thinking of, he's pretending he does not know. They're all full of it.

2:26 PM, February 05, 2007

=================================================

There is a ROV who I once respected very much. YOB had contacted this ROV and pleaded with him to convince me to remain silent about YOB sins, and also that I should shut down my blog. I refused to acknowledge this Rov, other than telling him that YOB must fire Nussbaum at once, no questions asked. There were more conditions, but that was one of the main ones.

So what does this Rov do? He bribes me like I'm some naive moron. Calls me up before Shabbos shortly after we made initial contact, wanting to drop off a nice bottle of Bourbon whiskey. We chit chat, even have a l'ecahim, and then get down to business. He PROMISES that Nussbaum will be fired, and also promises to meet ALL of the other conditions involved. This Rov promised that Nussbaum would be gone withing a couple of days. A couple of days turned into many weeks. There was Stalling, and excuses, and more stalling and more excuses by the ROV and YOB. The deadline I set for the end of July 2006 came and went with still no real issues being resolved. During that period of time I was very QUIET on my blog, waiting to see what will happen next.

The excuses were, Shlomo Mandel is in Eretz Yisroel - we have to wait until he comes back. Another one was "the lawyers from YOB will not allow a written apology (or even an oral one as I later found out) because that is called an ADMISSION to guilt. The excuses kept piling up like a ton of bricks. People will find out and it will be an even bigger chilul hashem than what it is now. And what about a shidduch for Nussbaums Children etc. They were very scared of the BLOG though, asking me many times if I will shut it down if they met my conditions. Another excuse was, how can YOB believe there were victims if you don't give us names. Stupid me, I relented and gave two names, one of which they were quite aware of already going back to the early 1990's. So what happens next? This Rov and YOB totally breach moral standards and confidentiality (no surprise there) by going behind my back (thinking I wouldn't find out about it) and having a third party contact the second victim's name that I had given them. The 3rd party arranges for another Rov to talk to this victim and attempt to fish out information about the alleged abuse.

It is precisely at this point in time, that I totally and unequivocally ceased from any further negotiations with YOB. This Rov who YOB thought would be able to silence me, is now an ex-Rov in my book. I lost TOTAL respect for him. I had a very hard time trusting in Rabbi's anyway, and I only negotiated in good faith because supposedly this was a Rov that I knew and I could trust. This was a Rov who KNEW about sexual molestation and abuse against a 5th grader dating back to the 90's. He even admitted that he felt bad all these years that he was not able to do anything about it then. He admitted to me in very BOLD terms that he believes very much that Victim # 1 was indeed molested by Nussbaum and that is why he decided to act as a go-between to YOB. This was a big opportunity for this Rov to finally get it right, to finally salvage what he failed to do previously, and he flunked with flying colors. He is a fake and a disgrace not only in my eyes, but especially to the victims he let down.

Okay; now that I got that out of the way let's continue. WHO IS THIS ROV? I will not name him, however I'll give you a little hint. He is a cousin of another disgraced Rabbi, none other than LIPA MARGULIS. How do I know?
Well, I found this out during our meetings and phone conversations. The topic of Kolko and YTT came up in the discussion and guess what? This Rov DEFENDED lippy and YTT. He said Margulis is my cousin you know (as if because of that merit I should believe his stupidity). And YTT is an esteemed Yeshiva who some former students just have a vendetta against. Kolko never did these things that they say he did, it's madeup nonsense, he went on to say. When we spoke about Ger and Lazarowits, he went on to repeat the same shtusim that these are former disgruntled bochorim. The more I spoke with him, the more I realized that HE WILL NEVER GET IT and that he talks out of both sides of his mouth. The problem is that this is just one case of corruption. There are SO many more, and that is very scary to me.

In closing I do want to heap some praise on this Rov I just finished trashing. He does a lot of chesed. He helps out many worthy causes. I think he is a well meaning man and has a lot of good qualities about him. Yet, this is what BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME. How can such a well intentioned individual turn his back on YIDDEN who need his help. How can he ignore evidence that points to children being molested and not equate it Pikuach Nefeshos? I'm sure this Rov would dial Hatzoloh in a heartbeat on Shabbos if he saw another Jew having a heart attack, so why is children being molested any different in his mind than someone who is in danger of dying on shabbos from a a stroke or heart attack? Any answers? Is it that Chilul Hashem is more important than saving a child? Could it be that reputations and careers will very much be at stake for those who swept the abuse under the carpet all these years? Is it because Shlomo Mandel, Yaakov Mandel, and Manis Mandel's crimes will become exposed to the public for all to see and scorn upon? Could it be that many more names of individuals who should have helped but decided to remain silent, will also suffer from negative publicity? All the Kovod, Pride, and admiration for these Rabonim who are really Reshoim will vanish very soon, when the Klal gets to see the ARAFAT's STALIN's and SADDAMS, that they really are.

On a side note, and I'm being very serious here. Could you gentlemen please go easy on Ronnie. So he has some things you don't like, don't we all? He's definitely not a bad human being from what I can tell. Let's focus on the real issues here. Let's love one another (both beth hamikdashim were destroyed because of sinas chinum) and reserve our hate towards those who are doing the abusing, and those who are covering up the crimes for all this time.

Anonymous said...

Very forceful speech tonight in Passaic against child abuse (and community responsibility to come together to remove offenders) by a Passaic Rav with the Ohel folks coming and presenting would have made UOJ proud!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Attorney Michael Lesher deserves great credit for his efforts to protect our children.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Sincere help from Ronnie is welcome but I don't think he would have much credence if he was running the show or controlling editorial content of a website dealing with the future of yeshiva students.

I was thinking more like technical stuff. I can do some basic web design. Also have the occasional good idea and can sometimes strings words together well. As I said, there have to be "somebodies" willing to use their name. Until somebody with credibility in the frum community steps forward, publicly, with their names, it's just going to be crazy people like me.

Shea Fishman said...

That go-between rov between YOB and Exposemolesters that revealed confidential information wasn't me. I swear.

TuitionScholarship said...

Pollard is for another forum. The idiot brought this on himself by telling off the judge to his face. He violated the terms of his plea-bargain (no talking to media, book deals etc), and told the judge "You can't do anything to me". The judge reacted and showed him exactly what he could do - life in prison mister.

How do I know this? Because I heard someone on the legal team and in the courtroom at the time of sentencing repeat the story. It's on classified transcript too. The Agudah should look out the front window and make seperate entrances for men and women before the world collapses.

Anonymous said...

The incredible increases in Yeshiva tuition over the past decade is astounding. The aftershocks are even worse. Parents who are totally unfit to teach are now homeschooling their kids. Every year of tuition saved for a family with three, four or more school aged children is a (not so) small fortune. Families in any environment to the left of Charedim are limiting the size of their families. The Charedim may not care, their tuitions are lower (no secular education) and many receive public assistance (or private assistance) anyway. It's a lot easier when you use "yenem's gelt".

All of this is occurring while millions of dollars of the limited financial pool available for Torah education is being funnelled towards kollelim, etc., rather than towards Tinokot Shel Bait Rabban. Screwed up priorities if I ever saw any!! All the while Yeshiva administrators (at least some of them) live fairly high on the hog.

This ought to be on our agenda, right next to the molestation issue. It's very harmful to Judaism if our parent body is being screwed, albeit financially.

Lakewood Talmid said...

Pollard is a very complex topic which I do not believe the rabbonim were medayek on like a shtik Tosfos.

One of the best books ever written is The Secret War Against the Jews by John Loftus & Mark Aarons. They are Irish Catholics who quit US Intelligence out of disgust of the paranoia against Jews in that community. Most of what they say is positive except when it comes to Pollard & Simon Wiesenthal who they come down very hard on. Almost everything in the book is from declassified documents that the CIA had to clear for them. They claim that Wiesenthal was on the take from the CIA in exchange for not exposing certain Nazis of value. They make the case that Pollard was nothing but a petty grubba drug addict who was selling files to feed his cocaine habit. They do point out the obvious fair taynos that Pollard did not damage national security in the way that KGB moles did. KGB moles have in some cases been released after 10-15 years.

Loftus is an ohaiv Yisroel, who hates corruption, living in Florida and working on an upcoming blockbuster called Prophets of Terror. I wonder if there are any FBI files on Mondrowitz or cover ups by DA Hynes. I am pretty sure Loftus would use his connections if contacted by UOJ.

boog said...

Rav Herschel Schacter, Shlita should be commended for his clear and forthright position. The criticism is way off the mark. One of the few Rabbonim today that are untainted by coverups, looking the other way, doublespeak, or silence.

Rebbeim and Teachers are Court mandated reporters and have a clear moral responsibility to report abuse to the Police and proper authorities. By extension so are parents.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Charles Murray discusses higher education in the US in these series of essays. I think they are relevant to the yeshiva/kollel system.


Half of all children are below average, and teachers can do only so much for them.



Too many Americans are going to college.



Those with superior intelligence need to learn to be wise.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Lakewood Talmid,

Thanks for the heads-up on Loftus, I will contact him.

Monday Morning Quarterback said...

Yo Ronnie, Charles Murray's essay from the WSJ was posted on UOJ the same week published.

Tsedrayter said...

Loftus used to appear on the
excellent John Batchelor show which
WABC unfortunately dumped. He is
definately an Oheiv Yisrael par
excellence and would help if he could, in my opinion. From what I
remember the big taynah on Pollard
he mentioned on the show was that Pollard gave secrets to Israel
despite the fact he knew there was
a serius infiltration of Israeli
intelligence by the Soviets.

Anonymous said...

Where is the Anger at Molesting?

by Rabbi Dovid E. Eidensohn

People are aroused and angry when a child or even an adult is molested. Of course, that is normal; people should be aroused and angry. The problem is, that people are aroused and angry only selectively. Our society and even within our community great suffering is visited upon children and even adults, but the vast majority of it passes un-remarked.

People are aroused and angry if a woman is pained in any way. But why are people not aroused and angry, and why are the women completely silent, when in the modern Orthodox world women must delay marriage so long, and men delay marriage so long, that inevitably, men use women the wrong way? Why are we silent at the Tephilin Dates? Is it not abuse when women must dishonor themselves?

Eichmann once said that people are aroused and angry when one person is killed. But when six million people are killed people shrug and go on with their lives. Emotions are not able to focus on such a large group. Thus, we in our community complain bitterly when one child is molested. But if an entire group of people suffer we are silent and are not angry. This is wrong.

Most children today enter marital age with no reliable parnoso. Is this not cruelty? Is this cruelty not only to the marrying children but to their children, and to the parents of the marrying couple who have to support their children with money needed for retirement and even living expenses?

There is great fury when a Yeshiva ostensibly had a rebbe who molested children, and there should be great fury for this. If a Yeshiva teaches children that if they work and don't learn they are failures, is this not molestation? And what of the Beis Yaacov that teach a girl that to marry a working boy is unacceptable? And then the girl seeks a good boy and is told that only rich girls are considered. Is this not a destruction? Where is the anger?

Ari Fleischer said...

I don't think that Dubya or any president has the balls to pardon Pollard as long as anyone in the Defense Dept and CIA that helped put him away is still alive. There is a lot of secret information that did not emerge for national security reasons. Pollard's release would hit a lot of raw nerves, even if there is a double standard.

By the way, I attended a Torah Umesorah affiliated day school in Westchester. Shame on you, Shea Fishman.

Tony Snow said...

More proof that John Loftus is UOJ's kind of guy. He wrote another book called Unholy Trinity where he furiously lashes out at his own Vatican church for helping the Nazis escape to South America in the name of religion.

John Loftus Website & Bio said...

http://www.john-loftus.com/

As a former Justice Department prosecutor, John Loftus once held some of the highest security clearances in the world, with special access to NATO Cosmic, CIA codeword, and Top Secret Nuclear files. As a private attorney, he works without charge to help hundreds of intelligence agents obtain lawful permission to declassify and publish the hidden secrets of our times. He is the author of four history books, three of which have been made into films, two were international best sellers, and one was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize.

Starting in December: John's News Show on Nova M Radio
KPHX
Nova M Radio
Times and other stations: TBA

Click Here for John's Other Media Appearances
John's latest TV and radio interviews can be found at www.IntelligenceSummit.org/news

John's Latest Projects

Loftus on the Muslim Brotherhood

CIA files have more on Bad Arolsen
Islam-Nazi Connection (video)
Loftus Apologizes
Anybody but Betty Castor (posted 06/23/04)
Joe Kaufman's 'Rally Against CAIR and HAMAS' Speech - April 3, 2004
Loftus quoted in WorldNetDaily - Jan 5, 2004
Loftus explores Bush-Nazi scandal (posted 12/11/03)
Loftus Views on Secrecy: In response to a coded note from an anonymous spy
CNN Interview: Convicted Spy Challenges Life Term - 9/2/03 (posted 10/7/03)
Palast article on Bush Sr - Al Qaeda coverup (posted 8/17/03)
The Truth About Jonathan Pollard (posted 8/17/03)
Pipeline of Hatred: Presentation of interest about Anti-Semitism
Read a review on John's Book "The Secret War Against the Jews"
Loftus vindicated by Al Arian arrest - 2/20/03
John's Press Release on the Saudis
What Congress Does Not Know about Enron and 9/11

You can help John fight that battle that needs to be won with a tax-deductible contribution to the International Holocaust Education Center, Inc.

Auto Report World Editors said...

If the US public was more aware of the role of Soviet spy Aldrich Ames in the Pollard affair it might be easier to pardon him. It was Ames who suggested that it was Pollard's leaks to the Israelis that ended up in Russian hands, costing the lives of US agents in the USSR. In fact it was Ames' own perfidy.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Since SCOTUS has come up on this thread, before he died Justice Goldberg alleged that Pollard's trial judge, Robinson, I believe, who is black, was leaked information ex parte by Cap Weinberger, that Pollard's leaks were passed on the the apartheid regime in South Africa as well.

YTT Janitor said...

I bet Margo won't even conduct background checks on custodial help.

http://jewishsurvivors.blogspot.com/2007/02/case-of-timothy-olander-synagogue.html

By DREW MIKKELSEN
KGW- TV
Monday, February 5, 2007
A Portland man who worked as a janitor at the Beth Israel Synagogue will spend the next 15 years in prison for possessing child pornography.


Timothy Olander, 49, pleaded guilty to charges last October.

Agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement raided Olander’s home last January. They seized computers, compact discs and videotapes.

“There were depictions of over 1500 images, with children from two to approximately 13 years old being exploited on camera many times by adults,” said U.S. Attorney Karen Immergut.

Olander received a longer than usual sentence because he has a history of sexual crimes. He was convicted of sexually abusing two relatives in 1988.

Olander was fired from his janitorial job at the synagogue immediately after the arrest. He had worked at Beth Israel for 10 years.

Rabbi Michael Cahana said when Olander was hired, job applicants were not given background checks. That policy has since changed.

Prosecutors do not think Olander had any sexual contact with children from the synagogue. However, investigators said Olander did have pictures of students from the Jewish school in his possession. Those particular pictures were not sexual in nature.

Full Circle said...

Gilligan is publishing Brodye's book about Mesira. Isn't it great when topics overlap?

http://www.yasharbooks.com/Justice.html

Anonymous said...

to uoj!
i am still in a trance from this "timeless" article,its amazing. keep it up, you out did even yourself.

LEIZEROWITZ VICTIM FOREVER

Anonymous said...

....news flash:
Kiloko's defense:
"It wasn't sexual, it was just milk and cookies"

Yudi Kolko said...

We could have used a janitor like Olander. He could've called chickee for me outside the YTT boiler room.

Par for the course said...

Gilligan had earlier published a sefer on seruv beis din. He placed an ad about it in the middle of a newspaper article about the Tendler scandal. If he gets Ezriel Tauber signed on as salesman, the two of them should stand on in front of 555 Ocean Parkway as human billboards to hawk the mesira book.

What might be really cute here also is unless Broyde's work on the web is just a kitzur, this is just a redundant effort by Gil to cash in.

Anonymous said...

Attorney Michael Lesher is a great guy. I, a victim of Mondrowitz have discussed my experiences and also his work on behalf of all Mondrowitz victims. I would venture to recommend any Mondrowitz victims to get in touch with him. However, a signed afidavite of confidentiality is always a good idea before talking to anyone.

Anonymous said...

I finally picked up the phone and called a Rabbi about all this %#*@.
I asked "how can such a monster have gotten away for so many years? Where were the Rabbonim?"
He tells me- "they were choishaid"- for 20 something years they were choisheaid?? It sickens me!! children are being tortured and all they can say is we were choished?!? That's it? choished shmoished- what good is it if you won't do anything!
Hey- I was choished that someone wanted to shoot you with a gun- oops sorry I didn't tell you -oh well, I WAS choished- please understand if by accident your brains got busted. You see there wasn't enough evidence to report it to the police.

Par minus one said...

"Gilligan had earlier published a sefer on seruv beis din. He placed
an ad about it in the middle of a newspaper article about the
Tendler scandal. "

Wasn't the book's conclusions anti Tendler? Isn't that a great thing to do?

Anonymous said...

11:36

Go tell the phony "Rabbi" you spoke to that people were Choished Moish Finkel the "Kosher" butcher eleven years ago. If all they do is choished but take no action, don't involve authorities capable of doing a proper investigation they are just enabling the perpetrator.

Also ask the "Rabbi" for the record if his wife or daughter was raped by a person they knew, would they inform the police, or would they be scared about the Mesirah c*#p.

These phony Rabbis should just get off the case and let the men in blue do what they do best.

TuitionScholarships said...

To Anon @ 11:02

I trash all the appeals letters. Hang up on the Dial-A-Schnorr since being polite gets you nowhere (you have to call me out of town, you twits? We've got our own stuff, thank you very much).

And if you are not involved in your local day school, then DO it. Make a difference. We can blog all we want, but unlike the molestor situation, everyone here can do something! GET INVOLVED! How much $$$ is the school raising? What are they doing to reduce costs? How much are the administrators getting? Parents on reduction - are they being asked to help in non-monetary ways? Run an auction? Fundraiser? Bus? Office?

Ya gotta ask this stuff. You are also entitled to contact IRS and find out how to obtain tax filings and other data required by non-profits.

Anonymous said...

Tuition Scholarship -

My wife and I work full time, five days per week. She leaves at 7am and comes at 6:30 pm. I leave at 7:30 am, and come home at 8, 9 or later. We have six kids attending four different yeshivas. The yeshivas take nearly every dollar we make. We're both professionals. We can't save anything. Our checking account is a nightmare, we bounce a check once in a while. We've never taken a family vacation - ever, we can't afford it. Nearly, all our furniture is second hand.We drive an old car. Our families are not rich, to say the least. We're too tired to get involved. And the rich people don't give a damn.

The Torah is beautiful. But the rabbis stink, and the yeshivas stink. I hate them all, with few exceptions.

Hole in One said...

Well it's a relief to hear that Gilligan didn't side with Tendler. The point is that the guy calculates on how to cash in. He then presents himself as an altruistic do-gooder.

The only ones that had nothing to gain so far are UOJ, Pasik, Greenwald and the askanim directed by R' Avigdor Miller to stop Kolko & Margo.

Gil Student and some others are just opportunists as far as I'm concerned.

Hahahahaha !!!! said...

"Hang up on the Dial-A-Schnorr"

These guys come in all shapes & forms. You get the real pathetic ones who call up mumbling something about an adam gadol who they really have no connection to but are trying to use his name to shake your money tree.

Some of them like Skverr show up in person with an entourage and use every pressure tactic in the book. The lead shnorrer has a lackey carrying a briefcase with a fancy contract in calligraphy for you to sign as if it's the presidential nuclear codes.

RIETSALUMNUS said...

Rabbi Hershel Shachter once ruled against
me in a psak despite the fact I have known him personally for over
twenty years form my YU days and
instead ruled in favor of the
other party who never had any personal relationship with him.
If that's not an Ish Emes- what is?

Anonymous said...

I spoke to a popular Flatbush Rov who told me that even though he knew that the allegations against Kolko were credible, Kolko needs to stay on as a Rebbi because preventing a chillul hashem (by publicizing this)is Docheh even Pikuach Nefesh!

Let me at 'em said...

You should name that "popular" Flatbush rov. He deserves to get a public flogging here for being an imbecile who puts neshomos at risk.

Cut the Crap said...

What about that scam yeshivos use, forcing you to buy "mitzva dollars" or whatever they call them or else the tuition bill is even higher?

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Eidensohn used the word "hate" too many times. That gave me chizuk.

There is a time for love, a time for hate. This is a time for hatred of some fellow Jews. Not just merely to hate their actions. These Jews have committed so many evil acts, they themselves should be hated and despised.

Anonymous said...

The asshole Flatbush "Rov" is the wife-beater Avrumie Schorr, and the YOB Rabbi-Mandel-Enabler is Yitzchok Mitnick the "groper" and masturbation-contest expert.

Anonymous said...

If its true, and it sounds true, Avrumie Schorr - Eat shit.

TuitionScholarships said...

Anon @12:26

Possible answer for the shlepper zitsers draying around in the BM: we could put them on the case and give them a commission on all the fraud they can dig up

It's amazing that a 2 earner family probably making just over 6 figures can't manage. I can imagine you are too tired - but what is the alternative? Continue to sink in the quagmire? I'm tired too - I work 2 jobs, my spouse works too, but I'm still involved with the school in this area. Right after tax season starts our endless nights and reviews, often right up to Sept 1.

Get yourself a copy of Quicken or Money off eBay, install it, take the time to set it and download statements from the bank at your leisure. It will balance your checkbook automatically based on downloaded statements. I was in the same boat - Quicken saved me. It will help you budget too. Really. If you don't have a computer at home, i bet you have one at work? You will know what you have and when, schedule bill payments etc. I can tell you a lot of the financial woes I see out there are a result of poor budgeting and people not knowing how much cash they have on hand. I'm not discrediting your situation - I'm trying to help you.

I don't know who you work for, but most large companies have employee assistance programs. My credit union provides access to advisors for financial counseling issues such as budgeting.

Also what percentage of gross income goes to tuition?(If you want to talk privately, email yeshivatuitions@gmail.com - I promise full confidentiality aka UOJ).

Anonymous said...

is this the gerer avroham shorr?

Anonymous said...

yes the Gerrer wife-beater phony bastard avrom shorr.

Most rabbonim today are cowards said...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2006/05/tony_snow_working_on_his_yiddi.html

There is a very popular & widespread hashgocho that as Tony Snow would say, is worth bupkis.

Many rabbonim don't even know or care what's going on. They'll just stuff their faces with anything that's supposedly kosher. That's why when you read the ads for Pesach hotels you see various "scholars in residence" who will eat anywhere in exchange for a free stay.

As far as the NY hashgocho, some rabbonim are aware it's a fraud but will only confide it to those close to them, warning you not to repeat it in their name. There are only two rabbonim who will speak on the record about the fraudulent rov who gives out his hechsher like it's monopoly money, in exchange of course for real greenback. Eat at your own peril because he doesn't check for bugs even though he claims to as a "heimish hashgocho" and his loser mashgichim, who don't know their head from their derriere, don't show up to be the "temidi" where the owners are mechalel shabbos.

Then people are surprised that Finkel kept farkoyfing treif birds 8 years after Yudel Shain caught him or that Kolko and Margo can get away with destroying children and fixing batei din for 30 years.

Anonymous said...

How do you know he's a wife beater? You made a statement, prove it.

BT said...

I was in Mitnik's masturbation contest. we had to tell him how many times a week we masturbated, and what we were thinking when we masturbated with all the details.

Anonymous said...

Tuition Scholarships, Thanks for the advice.

Anonymous said...

The Rov is not Shorr, but why do you call him a wife beater?

Anonymous said...

2 questions:If it's true that he beats his wife,
1- how do you know?
2- why is she still with him?
If she stays with him even though he beats her, then they're both crazy.

Anonymous said...

Why are we not staging a mass protest in front of TT?

IT seems that everyone on this blog taks big but is afraid to take action.

It is time for action!

Let's rally in front of TT

Anonymous said...

whaaat? If that's true, he's a sicko! and that is a form of sexual abuse.
UOJ- are we going to let this stay under the rug?
Is this the Mitnik that's supposedly saving teens at risk??

Anonymous said...

What's the name of the fraudulent "rov" who gives out hechsherim?

Back it up with proof - dates, places, incidents, witnesses, whatever you got.

And if you don't tell us, then you're a baal aveira as bad as Shain, who didn't do something about Finkel eight years ago.

The time for bulls--t is over.

Elisha said...

If you want a rally then set one up. If you or someone can organize it then it might be a possibility.

Columbus & 96th St said...

If Rav Eidensohn had his way, the more yeshivish crowd would be getting married earlier in most cases and not getting to the point of tefillin dates. It's much more complicated on the Upper West Side. The more modern crowd chooses to get married later because of career goals and influence from the secular world. There is a large "Conservadox" community there too. They often laugh at the modern orthos for trying to hide tefillin dates. The Conservadox usually sit at the the same Shabbos tables with the MOs on Friday night, and openly go back to the apt together as a couple who have nothing to hide. The MOs leave separately and secretly hook up. You occasionaly see some desperate yeshivish or chassidish guys coming around thinking they can just pick up MO girls. The MO girls can sniff them out a mile away and just ignore them.

ignorant said...

whats a tefillin date?

Anonymous said...

well there goes another prick to my s**tlist.
i remember the old days when shorr used to walk around the gerer mesivtah along with pervert leizerowitz talking to bocherim i swear to you on the torah hakdoisha that shorr knew about leizerowitz and did nothing about it all these years,he should and will definetly be held accountable for his silence.
p.s. by the way his son gedalya is a young girl beater, awhile back a 5 year old girl was making some noise in the gerer shtible of yagdil torah and the sicko took a sidur and whamed her on the top of her head, he had to flee the shul b/c he would have gotten what he deserved had the father of the poor child laid his hands on him.
sick family!

LEIZEROWITZ VICTIM FOREVER

Most rabbonim today are cowards said...

Why are you being motzee shem ra on Rabbi Shain? He screamed to Monsey rabbonim but they didn't want to believe him about Finkel. The only place under his control was the Atrium. He kashered the kitchen and never let Finkel back.

In Brooklyn, I'm going to be vague at first because I have some points to make. The fraud rabbi has way more places than he can handle. Because he is so cheap, every Israeli and other shmuck looking for shortcuts and a few saved dollars turns to him. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. The mashgichim that he hires are the worst in the industry. He pays them the least so he attracts all the rejects. A rosh yeshiva who stopped eating from him told me he was shocked that an ex-talmid of his "who knows nothing" was hired as a mashgiach there. Before I get to actual incidents, let me give you a hint. This situation has happened before twice. First the Chuster Rov, who rabbonim tell me is not all there mentally, mastered this art of being machshir the majority of restaurants in town and for the exact same incentive. The end of the Chuster's reign was when he was machshir a pizza store across from Chaim Berlin that was owned by a goy. Frucht and the boys rolled out after davening and saw the guy open for business. Word got out and no one would eat from the Chuster anymore. He then passed the torch to Dovid Katz, the wacko brother of R' Leibel. Even after he was thrown out of Mirrer yeshiva for putting signs in restaurant windows that he is the "Mirrer Mashgiach", he was still able to land almost every gesheft under his shtempel. It took a while for people to catch on to his shenanigans like relying on freye owners to vouch for their own standards. The bottom line is that if you see some clown who has every establishment under wraps, there is a reason for it that usually is not good.

Can you name the latest fraud?

Anonymous said...

UOJ, I find especially hard to believe these allegations on Mitnick who I think is one of the good guys. Are these just idiots with an ax to grind or is there something to these stories about Mitnick & Schorr?

Sex Ed Instructor said...

Hey "Ignorant", don't make me laugh. Do you know how babies are made?

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