To be clear, and not undermine the real allegations with hyperbolic descriptions, ONE new victim called in and he was unclear about exactly what had been done to him, although he said what happened to him in the other Yeshiva was "much worse." Pity Brenner is too much of a moron to ask obvious questions like "what exactly was done to you and by whom?" I bet Country Yossi could have conducted a less inept interview.
Scherman is a master of words, a good writer, a smart guy, and as it should be revealed, a savvy businessman. Artscroll and the Mesorah Foundation would make a fine story too. How many other publishing giants have non profits to cover all of their expenses --- and PROFITS? Smart? Artscroll, "the school" they are passionately single minded about...
Hey, UOJ, wanna invest in some artscroll stock? Their offices would make nice duplexes.
I hear that Kolko hasn't been around Weinfeld's shul for at least a couple days. The DA had better hurry up and press charges if the perp hasn't already taken the hot cocoa express out of the country.
How will Brafman defend the fact that he is defending YTT, the biggest crooks in history? And by defending them, he is condoning their behavior of avoiding bes din. He should refuse to represent them on moral grounds.
UOJ, I'm gonna stay within the rules here. I looked back on your 3 sites. Every F*** thing you said that was gonna happen, happenned exactly the way you said it. A year before Tendler lost his job you said he would unless he settled his case. You begged him to settle. you outlined to the letter what would happen to YTT and begged them to deal with their problem or they would be finito. S****, unF**** believable. Somebody yesterday told me you are Mordecai Tendler trying to divert attention from himself. I cracked up. All the conspiracy theorists are having a blast. Maybe you're mashiach who knows.
Lipa Margulies is not responding to hazmonnos to appear in beis din, which in itself is grounds to put him in chayrim. Now that Jeff Herman has been mefarsem allegations that Margulies is using mob tactics to threaten people with physical harm, the frum community MUST DEMAND from our rabbonim that a beis din deal with this. Margulies must be put in chayrim and forced to abdicate any control he has over the yeshiva. If not, beis din must posken that no one is allowed to enroll their child in such a makom tinofes.
There is a chiyuv on every yrei Hashem to bring this topic up with the rabbonus. This is also the right time to start a public petition that has been ignored in the past.
Anyone who does not speak up to stop this monstrous Chilul Hashem and rishus will have to answer for it.
"Somebody yesterday told me you are Mordecai Tendler"
I thought he was Ben Hirsch?? Perhpas Mordechai Tendler, UOJ and Ben Hirsch are one and the same. In addition, I believe that UOJ is responsible for Chandra Leavy. Jon Benet Ramsey and 9/11. How's that for a conspiracy theory?
If UOJ is of a rabbinic family, not only a wealthy one, this would explain why he is a billionaire. Can anyone imagine what his zechuyos are worth?
UOJ is not a navi. He merely knows the power of public opinion. The same goes for advertising. Slime exposed to the limelight becomes jello, especially if gelatin isn't kosher.
Ben Brafman is supposed to be a frumme Yid. No wonder the Mishna in Avos tells us not to be lawyers.
And anyone here know Shakespeare ?
It's a shame that such a potentially excellent blog has such assinine commentors. Every individual is entitled to a defense, in fact, if Kolko does NOT receive a full and fair defense, he cannot be found liable (or guilty, should criminal charges be filed). Brafman's just a human being who's good at his job. When was the last time you turned down a store's "no tax" policy, or reported every penny you made to the government, nevenensky? And which mishnah exactly are you referring to, dumbass?
Has it finally sunk in through Margo's thick skull that he's completely finished ? Or does the baal guyveh still think he's coming out of this, azoi vi shteit Hichbadti es Liboi ?
Ben Brafman is a capable attorney and in our legal system, attorneys are paid to do what is in the best interests of their clients. You aren't wrong. How could anyone choose to be a lawyer? Most attoneys, however, are practical people with bills to pay, full tuitions, expensive homes, maids, credit cards and would like to invest in uoj's shopping malls and condominiums. If you were an attorney's wife, you'd have certain expectations, realistic expectations, like, shopping. For shalom bayis, for the sake of Toirah, for the protection of due process, everything our society holds dear, lawyers must protect everybody's right to pay their legal bills.
As far as the Mishna in Avos, the wording used is "orchei hadayanim"
You completely missed the boat on the function of legal representation. An individual lawyer is completely within his rights to refuse a client. You can rant all you want about assumed innocence, but even that ultra left wing shmuck Bill Kunstler turned down Terry McVeigh, due to the presumption of guilt after the Oklahoma City bombing. If no one is willing to defend a pile of dreck like Margo, a court appointed attorney would do his best.
As far as that reference to Nevenensky's anatomy, it sounds like your head is buried in it.
Remember when I ran those radio ads for IDT about "completely uncensored" internet browsing ? Yudi Kolko was the first customer who signed up. Our customer service girls remarked they couldn't believe that the first commercial hadn't even finished airing and he had already called in. I apologize to klal Yisrael that I didn't take this as a red flag.
To make up for it, maybe there's something I can do to help take care of a long list of clowns who are next.
Margo Leib Pinter Sam Pinter Simcha Klor Artscroll The Jewish Press
Who cares about Mr. Bomer. I always thought social studies teachers are weirdos anyway.
Don't worry Martucci, when the whole student body gets transferred out by their parents, you can get a job at Chaim Berlin who will be scrambling to hire more teachers.
Hello - if you are so wealthly and so well connected - why don't you creat a standing Bais Din that can deal effectively with these issues. So you may have helped David - but what about all the other victims? Create a place where victims can feel safe to turn and their accuations can be investigated fairly and without all of this commotion. A special group trained to deal with these sitiuations effectively. Same results, no commotion.
UOJ, Could you be so kind as to cut me in for a book on Kolko and Margo from my Yashar Books company ? I know I referenced you at the RCA forum as a scandalmonger, but for profit sake, let's let bygones be bygones.
Brafman was attacked because he has taken it upon himself in the past to preach to the rest of us about ethics and the like. If you didn't know that, then you are like someone coming in in the middle of a conversation - you don't really get it but you think you do. The bottom line is that people were upset at him then, and they are even more upset at him now. It's not about a man's right to make an honest living and it's not about regular people going to law school and becoming lawyers. It's about someone pretending to be holier than everyone else, when in reality 'the emporor is wearing no clothes.' Additionally, by defending Margulies he is indirectly contributing to a tremendous problem/scandal right in our very community. I think it would behoove a frum lawyer from within the community to step aside on this one. Maybe that would send a message to YTT that we are not taking his s*** anymore and he better change his ways. If 'ethically superior' brafman wants to make a living by defending gangsters, that's one thing. But when ethically superior brafman defends people who have harmed in the past, and continue to harm, children and entire families of our community, then people are cynical and possibly upset if not entirely outraged.
I'm waiting to see an EMERGENCY ASIFA called by the Moetzes or Torah Umesorah; and officially declare that they will be setting up a totally "independent" panel of professionals to deal with abuse allegations in the yeshiva/bais yaakov schools.
I'm still waiting to see Yisroel Belsky declare on the steps of city hall that the Orthodox Jews are going to deal with sexual abuse in atleast as an important fashion as they have dealt with metziza b'peh.
Before his wedding, "Shmuel" phoned a former TT rebbi of his and asked if it would be OK to give him a brocha under the chuppah. Margo found out and said unless he (Margo) would be allowed to be the mesader kiddushin, it ain't happening.
Let's not allow a lawyer's religion to dictate their professional assessment as to the efficacy of taking on a client.
Your logic is flawed. Developing your point further would dictate that Jeff Herman, an Orthodox Jewish lawyer should not have taken on David Framowitz as a client. Why are you not attacking him?
Herman has brought suit on behalf of Catholic children who have been sexually abused by priests. He's on the record as stating that he sees this as protecting children from abuse regardless of their religious persuasion.
I believe that Brafman deserves the same professional courtesy.
Brafman has supported yeshivos and assumedly has fondness for Torah VoDaath. As was noted, he is defending the gedoilim, the moetzes, Klal Yisroel. What a guy.
Rabbi Belsky is an anav and probably feels he's a cog, lowly, not the equal of gedoilim. What the world needs is Dateline coverage of Rav Shteinman's stirring address to the Toirah Umesoirah convention this weekend. With the help of our gedoilim, Klal Yisroel will be saved.
This Ben Brafman is a massive cop out. He defends the most vile creatures on the face of the earth, puff daddy, michael jackson, margo, but its ok because its what he does for a living. Yes your a lawyer Ben but your supposed to be a Jew and a human being first. That means your supposed to have a conscience and act morally and ethically. Its immoral to lend credibility to child molesters and their protectors. Its an affront to their victims and yes you are morally obligated to care about those victims because your a Jew and a human being. There are some things that are more important than money and glory. I remember the New York Times interviewed Barry Scheck, one of OJ Simpsons Jewish lawyers, he said something like he has nightmares thinking about the parents of Ron Goldman, the young jewish man that monster hacked to death. So why did he help his murderer go free? He will answer to G-d for committing the heinous crime of preventing justice from being done for the soul of a murdered jewish man. You too Ben Brafman will answer to G-d for helping this heinous protecter and enabler of a man who destroyed countless lives of Jewish children. Have you no heart? Have you no soul? Is all that matters fame and fortune? Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
being that the stuatue of limitations have long passed...is it a possibility that Rabbi K will actually have to sit in jail? I have been following your website and I would like to give you UOJ a big yasher koach! thank you for bringing this to the ATTENTION it finally deserves!
A relevant problem is that part of the defense strategy will be attacking the witnesses credibility. I am not happy that Mr. Brafman - one of us- has taken it upon himself to be attacking these poor yiddishe neshomos. He will only be finishing up what Margo started. Mr. Brafman, you would be better off if you orchestrated the Enron disaster. After Margo loses and gets railroaded out of this community, Mr. Brafman should be next.
The shofet kol ha-Arets will arrange mishpat for all. Business is business. Someone has to do the dirty work. If the heilige Rosh Yeshiva insists upon being mesader his own case, justice will be served, u-l'petach chatat rovets.
If UOJ would buy the DA Charles Hynes back from our 'gedolim' then maybe Charles could be convinced to bring criminal charges against Kolko (and all co-conspirators) based on the allegations of a 22 year old yeshiva bochur. (as long as the charges are brought before he has his 23rd birthday the statute has not run).
I say Brafman must make the moral decision if "he" wants to defend a vile sexual predator and his protectors. If he does accept the case, Herman will destroy him. Worry not, Herman's abilities are legendary in this field.
But, how will you know, until the case is decided, when to draw the line? If YK is convicted of a felony, a first time offender, he'll do time and be placed on a registry etc. If not, and the case is only decided in civil court with the bulk of the money paid out from the value of the real estate on ocean parkway, Flatbush will be called upon to mortgage itself to save a Toirah moisad, a new, improved YTT. UOJ's family will receive another plaque.
Evrey person may be entitled to an attorney from a strictly legal point of view. That doesn't mean evrey person deserves an attorney. That doesn't mean evrey person should be defended. Thinking Jews and human beings believe that they have to make moral choices of conscience that no law can dictate. The classical example is the Nazis who were not only "following orders" but also following the German racial laws. The law is amoral and many times highly immoral. People are moral. Big time criminal defense lawyers especially jewish liberals like Alan Dershowitz hide behind the "law" as if it were some kind of bible discerning right from wrong. As I stated its a massive cop out. Stand up like a man and take a moral stand. If you defend Kolko and Margo than you are making a moral statement that you believe in what they have done. Nothing could be more repulsive.
I'll be honest. Brafman getting Kolko and Margo off the hook doesn't bother me. I am not a victim and I have no sense of revenge. G-d will take care of the evildoers. Let them get their punishment below. The problem is that if Kolko and Margo are back in business then all molestors are back in business and our kids aren't safe. After Brafman digs the bor birishus harabim he has a chiyuv to cover it up. The way he will do that is by pushing Pasik's legislation through the legislature. Brafman will create a Sarbanes-Oxley type of Act for molestors. That responsibility will be solely on Ben's shoulders b/c he dug the bor, and b/c he is the best. He has the money, the power, the connections and the know-how. If he loves Toyrah, and if he loves our yiddishe kinderlach, then he will do the right thing. And he will do it for free!
Flames, pain, and fury - read at your own risk Hello, blogland. Thank you for bearing with me while I attempted to get my thoughts in order.
Here we go.
I'm not completely sure of everything I want to say about the current thing that's been making me feel like vomiting. No, it is NOT the same thing as the thing that was making me want to rip people's hair out the other night; that was a totally different matter, a private matter pertaining to someone I know. But I was ripping hair out over that matter way before I found out about this article in New York Magazine.
First of all, the subtitle "Do The Orthodox Jews Have A Catholic-Priest Problem?" is revolting, obscene, and worthy of a supermarket rag. "Catholic-priest problem." How infantile. Leave it to a distinguished publication (HA!!) like New York Magazine to say something like that. The Catholic Church should sue or something. If I were a priest (CHECKLIST!!) (and yes, I realize my not being Catholic or male (CHECKLIST!!) would present a few obstacles to that), I would sure as heck want to sue.
So the article is sort of about a problem of individuals who purport to be Orthodox rabbis engaging in sexual abuse of children/teens, and the inexplicable, despicable phenomenon of people in power brushing the victims off when they seek help, and then covering up the allegations, and allowing the accused to continue to have access to children.
*calming breath*
So it's sort of about this problem in general, but it focuses mainly on the alleged behavior of one such individual by the name of Yehuda Kolko, who spent decades (decades!) as a teacher at Yeshivat Torah Temimah in Brooklyn, and has been on PAID LEAVE (*deep breath*) since the story hit the press. Kolko, apparently, managed somehow to retain his position as teacher - for DECADES - despite allegations that surfaced periodically - over decades - and of which the head of school, Lipa Margulies, was completely aware.
*several calming breaths*
I just don't understand what goes through people's heads sometimes.
First of all, don't waste your time, or mine, telling me that I don't know if the allegations are true. You're right; I don't know if they're true. I also don't know if it's true that the Jews left Egypt after generations of slavery. You know why I don't know if either of these things are true? Because I wasn't there.
If one child comes to me and tells me he's been fondled by an adult, I don't know if it's true, and I will sure as hell investigate myself into oblivion before I draw any conclusions. And of course, investigating myself into oblivion doesn't allow me to "know," either. Absent a videotape that can be proven not to have been doctored, all the investigations in the world will still not allow me to know. I will never "know." Because I wasn't there. That's the unfortunate reality of human beings attempting to hold other human beings accountable for improper or illegal behavior. That's the unfortunate reality of any justice system, anywhere on this planet. A justice system is fallible, because human beings are fallible, and only the people who were there will ever really "know" who, if anyone, is telling the truth.
So, as I was saying. If one child came to me and accused one adult, I would reserve judgment and would hopefully not be prejudiced in favor of either party until further evidence was brought to light. But let's say several children came to me. Let's say these are children who have never met each other; children who are generally not psychotic and don't stand to gain much by lying; let's say these children describe similar, but not identical, incidents of behavior by that same adult; let's say these incidents are supposed to have taken place over a long period of time, in different locations and under different circumstances; let's say these children don't know anything about each other's accusations, and yet the stories bear striking similarities; let's say that years later, I continue to receive similar stories from other people, in a pattern that continues unchanged; well, then, you know what? I still wasn't there, so I still don't know. But I'd be pretty damn confident, if all of that happened, that what we are dealing with here is a pedaphile and a sexual predator. It is far, far more likely that this person is a pedaphile than it is that ALL of these accusers, from different times and different places, accusers who don't know each other, happened to have made up, for whatever reason, almost precisely the same stories about the same person.
It is possible, of course. People do make up stories. People make up stories about abuse, people make up stories about robberies, and rapes, and assaults, and God only knows what else. But you know what? Most of the time, they don't.
So I believe that Yehuda Kolko is a pedaphile and a predator. And I believe that Margulies covered up Kolko's actions and ennabled him to continue. I believe there is enough evidence to conclude this even if they haven't yet been convicted in court. If I'm wrong, then perhaps I'm going to hell. But don't waste our time telling me that I shouldn't be saying this, that I shouldn't believe it, and that I shouldn't "assume" before it's been "proven." Because it can never be "proven," and I'm not assuming, I'm concluding. And you know what? You weren't there either.
OK. So.
Over the past several days I've been reading a lot of stuff, including following a reeeeeaaaaaally long comments thread on DovBear (comments to this post, but beware, reading all of them could take hours), and I've learned some of the details, not only of the abuse, but of the cover-ups - MULTIPLE cover-ups - that took place over the years.
I've learned, for example, that Margulies and Kolko managed, over the years, to stonewall various batei din (rabbinic courts, to which Jews are supposed to bring interpersonal disputes as a first course of action), and that they repeatedly engaged in intimidation, threats, and so forth of accusers and their families. And apparently there are dozens upon dozens of victims, and all of them were silenced, and none of them were listened to, and Kolko continued to teach. I've been reading this. And my mind has been churning with all sorts of stuff.
Part of me wants to write about how I'm going to kill Kolko, how I'm going to - well - never mind. I'll spare you the vivid images seething through my brain. But the truth is that I almost don't blame Kolko for his behavior. ALMOST. I do blame him, thoroughly. But I can't help almost feeling sorry for him at the same time, at least on some level.
I don't know that much about the psychology of pedaphiles, but I'm pretty sure they are seriously ill. By "pedaphile," I don't mean someone who has necessarily acted on their urges; I mean someone who is sexually attracted to children, consumingly and overwhelmingly so. This person has an illness, if I'm not mistaken, one that's outrageously difficult to treat. Now, many pedaphiles may ALSO be evil, depraved monsters, but they don't have to be. Being a pedaphile in itself doesn't make a person evil and depraved. Molesting children, in the opinion of this fallible human being, does make a person evil and depraved. But I would imagine that it's also possible for a non-evil, non-depraved, good person to suffer from overwhelming sexual attraction to children. They have it in their capacity to control their behavior; nothing and nobody forces a pedaphile to become a predator. But I'm fairly certain that people with this illness have extraordinary difficulty keeping themselves at bay.
I don't know. I realize there's no excuse for them to act on their impulses. But I personally find the whole disease tragic, much more so than other deviant sexual urges. First of all, because supposedly the urge is worse than others, is uncommonly powerful and overwhelming, and it tends to become obsessive and incapacitating. That's what I've read, anyway, and that totally sucks. But I also believe it's worse because acting on this one would not only be bizarre, like the person I read about who felt sexually attracted to men's public bathrooms, and it would not only be immoral, like having consensual sex with your adult sibling. Acting on this one would be evil. There is no such thing as a child consenting to such a thing, because a child does not have the capacity to consent to such a thing, so by definition if you act on it you are a rapist, a molester, and you are evil.
So I find it tragic, that a person would have to live with himself like that. Can you imagine living with something like that? Can you imagine trying to seek help for something like that? Forget seeking help; imagine just trying to summon the courage to admit it, even to yourself. If people in this society are so horrified and ashamed to admit that they might be gay, can you imagine a person, a person who is otherwise a fully "normal," functioning, compassionate member of the human race; can you imagine such a person trying to come to grips with the fact that he is uncontrollably attracted to children??? What's more, children of the same sex??? Knowing full well what the world would think of him if they ever found out, and knowing full well that to act upon it would be evil and depraved?? If you constantly obsess about doing something that is evil and depraved, well, it's not such a far leap to start feeling pretty evil and depraved yourself, even if you have never acted on it. If such a person did not already happen to be evil and depraved, can you imagine the self-hatred he would feel, not to mention the levels of denial?? I sure as hell can't.
I don't know why Hashem would present such challenges to a person, any person, evil OR good. I don't know why Hashem does a lot of things. And I also don't know whether Yehuda Kolko's despicable actions are a case of an evil bastard behaving like an evil bastard, or a case of a formerly good guy with insurmountable problems turning himself into an evil bastard. And if it's the second thing, well, then he's a victim too, a victim of himself, and he has to pay the consequences not only for what he did to all those children, but he has to pay the consequences for destroying his own soul.
GAAAAH. I hate this. Too many things churning in my mind. I want to kill a man because he's evil and sick, and I feel sorry for him because he's evil and sick. What's wrong with me, anyway? Do I have to feel sorry for everybody? Some things are black and white, you know. Molesting children is black and white. I feel I'm supposed to unreservedly hate this man. But I can't. I can only reservedly hate him, but I do so with every fiber of my being. And that doesn't even make sense. I wish I knew for sure what was in his mind when he did what he did. I would still want to kill him, in a slow, painful, highly graphic manner, but at least I would know for sure whether or not I should mourn for him after I did.
*squeeze eyes shut and shake head like wet dog*
OK (no, not ok, but I'm trying to clear my head). So. Kolko is a pedaphile and a predator and he belongs in prison, and the whole thing is horrible, and it sucks. It SUCKS.
But here's the part I don't understand even more than I don't understand pedaphilia.
I don't understand Lipa Margulies and his ilk. Here we have someone who it's impossible to feel sorry for. A person who, apparently, is a through-and-through evil bastard piece of s.
I will never understand evil bastard pieces of s., never understand people who threaten and intimidate and who seem to get off on people's fear and victimization. He's evil, he's a criminal, and he belongs in prison as much, if not more so, than Kolko. Him, I want to kill. Him, I will not mourn. And I would call upon every member of the Jewish nation to join me in spitting on his grave.
(that's a little extreme, isn't it... oh for the love of God, now I'm doubting myself about this too... I mean, it's not for me to decide who's evil, is it? or is it? help....)
But here's the part that I understand the absolute, positive, least of all. And I hereby give everyone fair warning that I'm about to embark upon a screaming rampage, so if you don't want to read one, go away.
*deep breath*
*pause*
I don't understand us. I don't understand myself. I don't understand apathy, and complacency, and cowardice. I don't understand the Jewish people.
I don't understand how this was allowed to continue.
I don't understand how regular people in the community allowed this to continue.
I don't understand how so-called "leaders" of the Jewish community allowed this to continue.
What I don't understand, so help me God, is why somebody didn't CALL THE POLICE. Someone, somewhere, at some point. Screw going to a beit din. By all means, first, go to a beit din. But that was tried in this case, and the beit din was not working. The beit din stalled and fumbled. The beit din was not functional. And it should not have taken months of not getting a response from the beit din for the people involved to realize that the beit din was not functional. You know why? Because what you do in this situation is as follows:
YOU CALL THE POLICE.
So that's what the beit din should have done. And when the beit din didn't, somebody else should have.
I realize that the halachik issues of mesirah (handing a fellow Jew over to the non-Jewish authorities) are extremely, extremely complex. And PLEASE don't start posting about those halachot here. The sources are innumerable, there have been articles and teshuvot written for centuries, and whatever anybody says, it is not a simple matter, and we are NOT going to clear it all up in a comments section on a blog. Even if the halachot seem clear-cut to you, they are NOT clear-cut to everybody, and that IS completely legitimate. That, I understand, and I fully adhere to that notion. The NOTION. But what I do not understand is why, and how, so many people are so thoroughly immobilized by the notion of mesirah, or worse, by some perverted and incorrect understanding of lashon hara, that they would allow a child molester - a CHILD MOLESTER!! - to remain free.
Nowhere do the halachot of mesirah state that mesirah is more serious and more important than protecting children from a sexual predator. This was a far more serious matter than mesirah. The halachot of mesirah may not be clear-cut, but some things ARE clear-cut, and protecting children from a sexual predator is one of them.
HELLO?!?!?
I feel like I'm banging on an empty tin can here. "Hello! Hello! Anybody in there?!?!" Because for my life, I cannot understand how this is not clear cut and obvious, to everybody.
Child.
Molester.
Adult.
Fondling.
Boys.
Which word do we not understand???
How DARE the beit din not call the police. And how dare anybody who knew about the allegations not call the police. AND HOW DARE ANYBODY DISTORT AND HIDE BEHIND THE TORAH AND THE HALACHA AS THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR NOT CALLING THE POLICE.
Follow the halacha and call a beit din or a halachic authority first. And if the halachic authority is too much of a blind and castrated wimp and coward to call the police himself, or to tell you to do so, then YOU DO IT YOURSELF.
IMMEDIATELY.
If you don't, you are an enabler, a coward, a distorter of halacha and the Torah, an embarrassment to the Jewish people, and a failure to our children. But you, yourself, are none of these things in comparison to the halachic authority who didn't take action himself. His obligation is ten times greater than your own. Because he is in a position of leadership, power, and influence, and people depend on him and look to him for guidance, and he knows that, or at least he should. So the failure and the obligation is on his head a thousandfold.
Shame on our leaders, of every denomination, who have ever allowed a thing like this to occur or to continue. Shame on ourselves. Shame on anyone who thinks some distorted, watered-down version of lashon hara, mesirah, and malbin pnei chaverio b'rabim (sorry for the transliteration, not in the mood to type Hebrew) somehow trump pikuach nefesh/lo ta'amod, chilul Hashem, v'asita hayashar v'hatov, and the gazillion other things I can think of off the top of my head.
Shame on the system we've somehow put in place that allows anyone to grow up thinking this way. Shame on anyone who waves a banner of Torah and righteousness as they actively place our children in harm's way, and as they enable a dangerous, monstrous criminal to go free. And shame on anyone who has the unspeakable gall to condemn those who understand their religious and moral obligations well enough to do something about it.
I will never understand this. This is blindness, arrogance, and madness. This is a defamation of Judaism, a defamation of the Torah, an insurmountable chillul Hashem, and anyone and everyone who has ever said or thought any of these things is an embarrassment to Judaism, an embarrassment and a danger to our people, and should take it upon themselves to do some serious cheshbon hanefesh (introspection) (sort of), starting right now.
Sometimes I wish I didn't have to be anonymous. I wish I could post details about my husband's background here. Because he agrees with me (about this, anyway), and I know it would make a difference to at least some people if they knew that my husband happens to be a tremendous talmid chacham, that he's quite highly respected, and that he very likely knows more Torah than - well - a lot of people. But I don't expect you to believe me when I say that, because I can't give you a name.
People, we can't allow this kind of thing to go on. It's a travesty and a horror and an incredible failure that it went on. We must find the parts of ourselves that allowed it to go on, and we must do everything in our power to wash those places clean.
I have more to say on these and related matters, but I think I'm done for now. I just wish I had a better sense of where to go from here.
Gov't?!! What you been smoking, Jack? The gov't has failed miserably. Hynes is a joke and semi-senile. He is putty in the hands of the enablers, obfuscators, and Zwiebel's Agudah.
No UOJ-no NY mag article, no Jeff Herman, no Elliot Pasik being brought to our attention, no Kolko being kicked out by margo; the last Survivor?-no nothing.
The Power Brokers are maneuvering to make koko the last case and then it's back to business as usual. Don't be surprised if koko very quietly slips out on the midnight train to Jerusalem before the trial ever starts.
Say Hey, Willie, can you imagine Mondrowitz and koko teaming up to open a Day Care Center?
SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) -- A federal judge rejected a $45.7-million settlement Thursday for 75 people who have filed sex abuse claims against the bankrupt Roman Catholic Diocese of Spokane.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Patricia Williams threw out the agreement during a telephone conference hearing, according to lawyers who took part. The judge urged the dozens of lawyers representing the diocese, victims, parishes and other parties to enter into mediation.
The judge, noting that bankruptcy law calls for settlements to be "fair and equitable" to all parties, decided the deal favored the 75 people over other alleged victims, lawyers for both sides said.
The deal, announced earlier this year, was controversial from the start because it covered only a fraction of those who had filed lawsuits contending they were abused by priests in Spokane. About 185 individual claims have been filed against the diocese, although Williams has said some are duplicates and others are invalid.
"I think the elements of the settlement we proposed with the 75 victims still have merit. The judge clearly found concerns with some elements," said Shaun Cross, a lawyer representing the diocese.
Spokane Bishop William Skylstad, president of U.S. Catholic bishops, is among the clerics accused of abuse in the bankruptcy claims. He has vehemently denied having sexual relations with a woman in the 1960s.
The diocese filed for bankruptcy protection in 2004, citing abuse claims of about $81.3 million against assets of about $11 million. Spokane is one of three U.S. dioceses that have filed for bankruptcy because of the abuse crisis.
Mike Ross, a member of the Spokane chapter of Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, who would have been covered by the diocese's settlement offer, said the judge's ruling will ensure everyone gets compensated.
"I think it's positive. All victims need to be compensated for their pain and suffering," he said.
However, David Clohessy, national director of SNAP, said by e-mail from St. Louis that the judge's rejection of the diocese's offer will hurt victims who thought they would be compensated.
"Our hearts ache for the dozens of deeply wounded and still hurting victims who thought a deal with the bishop was a deal," Clohessy wrote. "Equality is a valuable goal, but so too is healing and closure."
Gayle Bush, a Seattle lawyer who co-wrote an alternative victim payment plan, said the diocese's proposed settlement failed to take into account victims who did not sue, or those who come forward in the future.
"The ruling today was a very clear statement from the court that the confirmation of a plan in bankruptcy requires fair and equal treatment for all members of the same class," he said. "Her conclusion was the proposed settlement agreement did not meet the bankruptcy code standards for fair and equal treatment."
Lawyers representing people not covered by the settlement earlier this week filed an alternative plan that would assess individual parishes nearly two-thirds of the market value of their churches and schools in exchange for avoiding possible foreclosures
UOJ is, as always, nauseatingly self righteous and complacent. Of course he's angry that brafman might represent kolko. A fair trial? How can we allow that? The only acceptable thing to do is assume that kolko's guilty right now. String him up, and who needs a trial. In fact, if a beis din of moshe rabbenu, shmuel hanavi and rabbi akiva would convene and find kolko innocent, UOJ would be out there badmouthing this corrupt akiva guy, and insinuating that moshe stole the emeralds from the luchos. Fair trial? Hah! Fair = what UOJ thinks. The haftora of achron shel pesach refers to the praiseworthy judge who doesnt decide based on what he sees (in New York Magazine) or hears (over the rumor mill). He uses his thought and wisdom to rule, instead. This message is a powerful one, but its lost on both ideologues and demagogues who are convinced with absolute certainty that ONLY their way is right.
UOJ doesnt realize this, but he's as much a godol worshipper as the rabbis he's lacing into. He just sees himself as a godol, or maybe just as god.
Sorry, but I'm not buying it, and for the sake of your souls, neither should you.
uoj is not nauseating. He isn't entirely self righteous either or complacent. I have no idea who he is and his identity deserves to be protected. He's done a public service. If you can't see the problems at ytt, you are blind. History will prove the righteousness of the "rosh yeshiva." Right. A joke.
While Kolko and Margulies are guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt and Kolko is not a homosexual but rather a sick predator who harms children, you do make one good point.
We as a community must put as much effort into preventing a witch hunt as we put into protecting our children from the likes of Margulies and Kolko.
Please remember that the instant matter is one where there has been an endless cry for forty years. Also note that the number of victims coming forward who were abused by Margulies & Kolko are growing daily.
Gimmmmeeeee a break guys. All I did was methodically add up all the pieces of information I had and get the world's attention by providing colorful language.
Don't give me too much credit; recognition that you too can make a difference is the lesson learned here.
I don’t know why the obvious is lost on so many people. Margo has been proven to be dishonest and could have easily lied to rav Scheinberg about what happened. Some of what Kolko has been accused of is “tickling” boys and NOT even on their private parts. (Although granted these boys broke away quickly and are convinced that Kolko would explore them further if he had the chance.) Rav Scheinberg could have been told that boys were tickled on their stomachs or the like which is inappropriate but not criminal, with Margo keeping the more lurid details from him.
Posters on the Dov Bear blog claim you were present when a victim attacked Kolko at a bris. Did Kolko take a beating or was it just some harmless shoving ?
Ben Brafman hides behind "making parnossa" while he is mistakel every day in the faces of reshoyim gemurim. Margo fits right in with his line up of clients like Pinter, mafiosos, gangsta rappers and Kolko's pedophile comrade Michael Jackson. What's wrong with any other legal specialty that Brafman has to cavort with all the bottom feeders ?
Did you expect Margo do anything less than hire the best and most expensive lawyer around ?
Mr. Brafman resides in Long Island, New York with his wife Lynda where they are active in Congregation Beth Sholom of Lawrence, The Kulanu Torah Academy, The Israel Cancer Research Foundation and a wide range of charitable and religious organizations both in the United States and Israel. The couple have two children and 8 grandchildren.
Mr. Brafman, a former Assistant District Attorney in the Rackets Bureau of the New York County District Attorney's Office, has been in private practice since 1980. He received his law degree from Ohio Northern University, in 1974, graduating with Distinction and serving as Manuscript Editor of The Law Review. He went on to earn a Masters of Law Degree (LL.M.) in Criminal Justice from New York University Law School. Mr. Brafman is a Fellow in the American College of Trial Lawyers and in 1997, was selected by New York Magazine as the "Best Criminal Defense Lawyer in New York." He was also the recipient of the "Outstanding Private Criminal Defense Practitioner Award" for 2005 from the New York State Bar Association.
Mr. Brafman is a frequent lecturer and panelist on criminal defense issues sponsored by the United States District Courts in New York; the Association of the Bar for the City of New York; the New York County Lawyers' Association and many other local and national criminal defense organizations.
It's a Chutzpah with a Capital C that even Aish Hatorah reprinted this spin written by Brafman himself that defending rotzchim is somehow a "kiddush Hashem"
Brafman's rov is Kenneth Hain, a big shot at the RCA who acted very forcefully against Tendler's sexual escapades. People should speak to Rabbi Hain. Will he do the right thing and use his sway over Brafman or is he quiet when it comes to a rich and powerful congregant ?
May 19, 2006 U.S. Indictment for Big Law Firm in Class Actions By JULIE CRESWELL
The nation's leading class-action securities law firm, Milberg Weiss Bershad & Schulman, and two of its partners were charged yesterday with making more than $11 million in secret payments to three individuals who served as plaintiffs in more than 150 lawsuits.
The indictment is the first instance of a law firm with national reach facing criminal charges, and it could prove to be a fatal blow for the firm. The lawsuits cited in the indictment spanned two decades, occurring as recently as 2005, and generated some $216 million in legal fees for the firm.
Its lucrative business made Milberg Weiss a target for political critics who saw the firm as a symbol of a national litigation industry that had gone out of control. These critics said that many of the firm's lawsuits against corporations were frivolous, raising the cost of doing business.
The critics contended that investors, for the most part, saw only pennies on the dollar from any recoveries won by the firm. In the 1990's, Congress raised the legal hurdle for such lawsuits in large part in response to Milberg Weiss. Even so, the firm continued to thrive.
In the 20-count indictment by a federal grand jury in Los Angeles yesterday, Milberg Weiss and two of its prominent partners, David J. Bershad and Steven G. Schulman, are accused of racketeering conspiracy, mail fraud, money laundering conspiracy and obstruction of justice.
Ruach Chaim is already at the bottom of the hill. I keep getting calls from anxious parents if I'm sending my son back next year. Most classes have between 5 and 8 kids registered for next year and so far 4 rebbeim have accepted positions in other yeshivas, and 2 more are waiting for answers. The joke is on Klor, because they all keep telling him they are coming back because otherwise they won't get paid up until the end of the year. June 30th Klor is going to start scrambling to look for rebbeim because that's when he is going to find out that only Rabbi Estreicher is coming back. What about the journal ad blanks that just went out, what a joke to send this out in the last month of the year. I guess they couldn't get anyone to agree to be honored. Are we going to get the jounals mailed to us next year by pesach like we did this year. I think everyone should put in their ad in honor of Rabbi Sabo, or maybe l'zecher nishmas yeshiva ruach chaim a"h.
Thank you for sharing your powerful and stirring words. Your emotions mirror those that I was feeling before I decided to call Torah Temimah and express my ourage and demand that R. Margulies terminate the employment of R. Kolko immediately. Unfortunately, I was the only parent who called the Yeshiva to complain.
I just gave a few tips to Margo on how to run the yeshiva like a real dictator. Any boy overheard talking about UOJ, NY Magazine or Batei dinim is to be slapped across the face and transported by official yeshiva vehicle to Kolko's house, where Yudi can keep molesting in exile.
Well, there's just been a statement issued giving some attempt to clear R. Scheinberg. Granted, it's issued from Rabbi Ginzberg (his host for the weekend), and is typically vague, at least it's something.
Here goes:
Dear Community Members:
Over the last few days, a number of people have brought to my attention an article from a secular publication asserting that a world-renowned Rosh Hayeshiva issued a halachic ruling regarding child molestation. This alleged ruling – through this publication – has resulted in widespread Chilul Hashem and gross misrepresentation of clear and indisputable Halacha.
The purpose of this letter is not to address the context of the quote, the alleged ruling in question or the specifics of the primary accusations made in the article. This letter is about clarifying the position of halacha with regard to child abuse, to the extent that position has been clouded by these recent events. Moreover, this letter is about urgently disseminating essential halachic facts which -- hopefully -- will serve to mitigate the potential damage and destruction caused by this mischaracterization.
It is incumbent upon all Rabbonim worldwide to unite and unequivocally declare that Orthodox Judaism absolutely forbids child abuse of any kind – sexual and non-sexual. And, as with any other allegation of halachic wrongdoing, the appropriate testimony must be given, and the appropriate proceedings must be convened, in order to establish the truth of any accusations.
Allow me to be among the first to make this declaration, and I speak not only for myself but also for the Rosh Hayeshiva named in this publication, with whom I have consulted:
Sexually abusing a child in any form is a flagrant violation of our Torah. Halacha absolutely prohibits any and all such conduct. No "benchmark" exists to qualify a sexually motivated act as child molestation, and there are no "technical defenses" to justify child abuse. To be crystal clear: the touching of a child in a sexual manner is utterly forbidden by our Torah and by our mesorah.
It is my hope and prayer that this letter will serve to clarify any confusion about the Torah view on these very serious issues. Obviously, this is not a scholarly letter or article -- now is not the time for Talmudic sources, lengthy discussions or intellectual debates. It is simply the time to set the record straight – solely for the purpose of abruptly ending the Chilul Shaim Shomayim facilitated by the dissemination of the supposed Torah viewpoint reported in the article.
Child abuse is forbidden. An issue this easy does not need further clarification. It is my sincere hope that, in consultation with other Rabbonim in our community, we can collectively and effectively formulate appropriate strategies to ensure that the issue of child abuse is dealt with appropriately, proactively and swiftly in our community and beyond.
Is this Rav Scheinberg's brother or nephew ? I hope he's not on Jack Abramoff's pay schedule too. It's a big enough chilul H already with Lapin and the Pinter clan being combed over by the FBI and Senate investigators.
Who needs a job at the yeshiva when I can now prey on innocent little morsels at Weinfeld's shul or in the neighborhood ? If I get tipped off by Agudah sources close to Hynes that an indictment is coming, I've got a whole country full of fresh little meat pieces when I escape to Israel.
Rabbi Ginzberg's self-serving polemic is a total waste of time, vacuous, and just more of the same tired BS and here's why.
We all know the halacha regarding this issue of child sex molestation and abuse which makes the cover-up and thus enabling of koko's activities by aforesaid rabbonim, lo these many years, all the more egregious and reprehensible.
Rabbi Ginzberg, do you want to truly effectuate meaningful change or just utter touchy-feely empty platitudes?
If the former, then see to it for starters, that the Agudah and Torah Umesorah co-operate with and get behind Elliot Pasik's efforts to have meaningful legislation passed by the NYS legislature and a registry set up by and for all of our Mosdos.
Mr Pasik is fighting valiantly but being stonewalled at every turn by your Chosuve rabbonim colleagues. Why? What are you afraid of?
You Rabbonim are extremely adept at talking the talk, but don't walk the walk.
The bottom line fact of the matter is that if not for the herculean (or should I say Samsonian) efforts of UOJ over the past year, who knows Rachmana Litlan, how many more Yiddeshe Tyreh Kinder would have been molested?
Now that the road has been cleared and paved, you and your colleagues should come out of the bunkers and back up your talk with action.
Boog, The Ginsburg comment was not put up by me. I decided to let people put up their stuff to get a view of how the "other guys" are going to spin this.
Very disappointed that you have not commended Ginzberg on his courage. No, he didn't say anything we didn't already know. Buy yes, he finally cleared up this whole mess publicly about whether Rav Sheinberg condones child molesting. Your comment above is EXTREMELY hypocritical. By your own admission, you were always willing to give Rabbonim a chance. Unfortuneately, Kolko, Margo and others ignored you. Rabbi Ginzberg never ignored you and all you've ever heard from him was an attempt to take things in a positive direction. Boog is a jackass, and everything until his last line is pointless drivel. But his point at the end makes sense: Let's wait and see.
I thought more of you before this. Why don't you applaud someone for once for making a statement about what he knows about. A guy living in Woodmere has no right to comment on child molestors who he doesn't know, and thankkfully, his statement did not addtress that. Again, let's wait and see if he backs up his moving forward statements with anything. Not "Boog-style," of course. All that moron wants to see is a Rabbi make a statment that Kolko and Margo are guilty and see these guys eaten alive. Me too, but I have no first-hand knowledge of their guilt (although I think they're guilty), and R Ginzberg certainly has no knoweldge of their guilt. Climb back into your cave.
Can we please have some consistency, UOJ? I'm a big fan, but you're quickly losing credibility.
I am not a fan of some of his posts but Boog gets it exactly right on this one. Because I decided to go into a profession after yeshiva, I am not a voice to be reckoned with on these matters, but I must say I am completely appalled that the leadership has none less than nothing to protect our children from the beasts that are lurking out there.
I say shame on you to the Agudas Yisroel, Torah Umesorah and anyone else who had the opportunity to act but sat there in a catatonic stupor.
If you continue in this vein, you will cause irreparable harm to the entire klal, the likes of which turns me pale from fright.
I do not see how legislation will protect children. What really has to happen is for a change in attitude on the part of the people who run the schools and the parents who send children to the schools. We need to have accountability and frank and open communication without fear of reprisal.It slices both ways as well. In addition to holding mechanchim accountable for their professional conduct, we also need to hold parents and the commnuity accountable for supporting the mosdos. Perhaps it should not be considered appropriate to go to a hotel for pesach when there are yeshivas struggling to meet payroll and parents struggling to pay tuition. Perhaps we all need to reexamine our priorities.
It was clear from R' Ginzburg's alleged statements that he is chiefly concerned with protecting Ultra-Orthodoxy's public image. Protecting does not seem to be the gist of his statement.
UOJ, I'm surprised as well. We finally have a Rav with the courage to speak out publicly to condemn abuse and also to strike down the supposed RS psak and you respond with the same knee-jerk-ism you have railed about from the yeshivas. Is the letter perfect? Maybe not but it's a darn good start and this lone voice among rabbanim should be given some credit. You were courageous to bring the issue to the forefront of our community. Please recognize the courage of this Rav, who at this hour still stands completely alone in his remarks on the issue. I hope you will respond with a more considered take on the letter, not by picking it apart because it lacks this or that point, but by commending a Rav for finally joining you in your important work.
Commend Ginsburg for what? That it's assur to molest kids and Scheinberg agrees?
How about "I spoke to Scheinberg and he swore to me that he never got involved to disrupt an ongoing bais din"?
How about calling a meeting at Ginzburg's house with Scheinberg there for breakfast, meeting with the various people that were contacted by Scheinberg and told directly by Scheinberg the very stuff he now denies.
More doublespeak????
Let's get this out in the open...let the victims and their parents be able to confront Scheinberg in an open forum!!!!
Enough already...have we not learned that the days of cover-up of a cover-up are over???
Scheinberg is as guilty as HELL..I'm sick and tired of the BS SPIN...Scheinberg is a monster!
Ginzburg should really be careful about issuing statements that degrade us any more.
"UOJ, I'm surprised as well. We finally have a Rav with the courage to speak out publicly to condemn abuse and also to strike down the supposed RS psak and you respond with the same knee-jerk-ism you have railed about from the yeshivas. "
Have you read the letter?? All it does is reiterate what everyone, including Margo and UOJ agree too. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is what Rabbi Sheinberg told the accusers. This issue is not addressed by the letter.
anon; Hit a nerve, did I! You can call me "jackass" till the cows come home. You are an excellent candidate for the reading comprehension class being given at Machon L'Paranassa in Boro Park.
What I have been saying and is crystal clear to all, regards to the ostrichitis, obfuscation, neglect, and stonewalling by our Leaders and organizations on this issue.
Do you deny it?
BTW;
What do you mean by "pointless drivel"? Is there such a thing as 'meaningful drivel'?
YOU should stop issuing statements that degrade us even more, UOJ. You had momentum. Now you're showing the world that you're just like the Boog's of the world. Not willing to give anyone a chance. He was approached by HIS COMMUNITY AND SHUL about these Rav Sheinberg statements, and he responded publicly because this was being said publicly. I agree -- a meeting should be set up and more clarification is warranted. He purposely avoided the issue because he was not ready to make a statement about that yet. I know, UOJ, it took YOU 9 months to get the first lawsuit out, but you expect Ginzberg to finish his entire investigation in less than a week???
Ginzburg is a behind the scenes guy who only steps up publicly when something desperately needs to be said. Trust me, if and when he concludes there was a cover up, he will make a public statement about that as well. UOJ -- I'll get you a meeting with Ginzberg and Sheinberg. Sorry, I forgot, you're a f***ing coward.
These guys are guilty, and everyone knows it. UOJ got us to this point, but I think it's time this piece of sh*t packs up his bags and hands this over to someone who thinks with his head instead of emotion.
So clever, Boog. So Ginsberg didn't say exactly what you wanted him to say. At least you have a forum on this blog where people like you can be applauded and heard. Because in the real world, no one is obligated -- IN 5 DAYS --to conclude that 25 years of stonewalling existed. No, I don't deny it. I have no clue what happened in the halls of torah temimah or Sheinberg's yeshiva. And neither does Ginsberg. And he's not going to throw his 93 old RY to the wolves because Boog wants him to. He'll look into it and then you'll go ask him. Like a man.
And finally, Boog, yes, I am unemployed and really take offense to your remarks. I hope Shaindy, Yossi, Yanky, Perel, Moishie, Rochel and Tzvi don't print this and bring it to the Shabbos table tonight. We don't have food -- all we have his conversation. Thanks for the reminder. Can you send me the number to that agency you referenced?
Rav Ginzberg deserves credit for unequivocally setting the Halacha clear on child abuse. However, he is also speaking in Rabbi Scheinberg's name which means that he is using this forum as a means to clear Rabbi Scheinberg. Has he first spoken to a single victim to find out if, indeed, Rabbi Scheinberg, behaved as the article alleges he did?
Had Rav Ginzberg kept Rabbi Scheinberg's name out of the discussion and focused strictly on the Torah's view on child abuse, I would agree with ANON. However, it seems obvious that Rabbi Ginzberg cleverly used the opportunity to vindicate Rav Scheinberg.
Um, no, UOJ. Me, like you, expected him to say NOTHING. You want silence. You want to be able to say that no one addressed this. NOW YOU HAVE DIALOGUE AND IT"S KILLING YOU. A Rabbi willing to have dialogue with the likes of the scum of the earth? Are you sinking, UOJ? I hope you're ego doesn't get in the way of putting Kolko and Margo in prison.
HAVE DIALOGUE WITH RABBI GINSBERG. HE MADE A VERY POSITIVE FIRST MOVE BY EVEN COMMENTING ON THIS ISSUE. NOW GET YOURSELF OFF YOUR ASS AND CALL HIM.
koko/margo is just the latest on the sex abuse hit parade. What about the previous Hall of Shamers like Mondrowitz who got away literally and figuratively with their sickness because your rabbonim were going to "look into it". All of the denials, etc. that cowed the victims into submissive silence?
I don't know how to say this in your preferred Oxfordian English, so I'll be blunt, anon,
Cleverly used the opportunity to vindicate Sheinberg? Huh??? Sheinberg's statements were the one on the record embarrasing orthodox judaism. He cleared that up. At the same time, he's involving himself with the actual case to the extent he can. If he's stonewalled, you'll get another letter stating that. One step at a time, people. Many sensibel people were just beginning to agree with you guys -- why kill it now?
I love it. Thanks for backing down, Boog. You lost on your first point, so now you're going back to the previous scandals. You backed down way too easily.
Any seminars in debating at that place? You and me can go, babe, you'll make me look good and maybe I'll get a job at Kosher Delight.
I intend to call him...as the previous Anon said; if he would have left Sheinberg's name out, I would say it's a good first step. Much better than Shmuel Kaminetzky and Co.
You can't stick in Sheinberg's name without speaking to the 23 people I spoke to about Sheinberg's role in the previous kangaroo bais din.
Holy mackerel! I didn't know so many people in Toronto are following this too! I was just curious because I know all about Margo from Temimah guys in camp. The problem with abuse cases in Canada is that the police are too polite and slow. They interview people too many times and kack around. There were 2 abusers in the Bobover cheder who took off back to New York after they were questioned by the cops. Who knows what yeshiva they are trolling now.
And, as with any other allegation of halachic wrongdoing, the appropriate testimony must be given, and the appropriate proceedings must be convened, in order to establish the truth of any accusations. ===========================
THIS IS THE SOLE POINT OF THE LETTER! IN SCHEINBERG'S PERVERSE OPINION, THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE OF KOLKO'S GUILT. PERHAPS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SEE THE ABUSE HIMSELF, OR BECAUSE OF A LACK OF TWO AIDIM AND A HASRAHA. SCHEINBERG'S PERVERSION OF OUR TORAH RESULTED IN THE DESTRUCTION OF MANY MANY LIVES AFTER HE WAS HIRED BY MARGULIES TO INTERFERE WITH JUSTICE IN THE 80'S.
Shmuel Kaminetzky will be in Lawrence Sunday morning at Shimon Pluchenik's house.
I URGE EVERYONE THAT CAN MAKE IT TO BE THERE AT 9 A.M., NO NOT TO DONATE TO PHILLY, BUT TO ASK HIM WHY HE HAS NOT CONDEMNED THE YTT GANGSTERS! WHY THE SILENCE???????
TO Anon: Read Rabbi Ginzberg's statement and you will see how he "cleverly vindicated Rabbi Scheinberg."
"Allow me to be among the first to make this declaration, and I speak not only for myself but also for the Rosh Hayeshiva named in this publication, with whom I have consulted:"
Thank you, UOJ. I'm beginning to regain a little respect for you. I appreciate the fact that you are capable of seeing some good in what Rabbi G did here. As for R'Sheinberg, all I can say is that he's Rabbi Ginzberg's rebbe and guest. Trust me, Ginzberg will go after him if he's wrong, but you can't blame him for attempting to clear his name (and the name of all of us for being part of this religion) by at least saying what he could say at this point.
I thought that letter was clear on this and you guys are having a knee-jerk reaction. Sit back and reflect on this for a few minutes and you;ll see that if you're really trying to accomplish what you claim, this is a HUGE step in the right direction.
Rabbi Ginzberg cleverly used the opportunity to vindicate Rav Scheinberg...
Furthermore, it is quite reasonable to assume that R' Ginzburg was compelled to make a statement so that he should not be associated with R' Scheinberg's statement. Once he had the floor, he figured he may as well deny the statment itself.
UOJ, Re: the person who offered to " get you a meeting w/ R' Scheinberg.."
DON'T DO IT! It's a ploy to get you to donate to Torah Ohr. You know what it required for a visit to R' $cheinberg...
After mulling this over a bit more, I would have to at least give R' Ginzburg credit for making any statement. Whatever the motive might have been. Nice going.
Thank you, Gross. Not for your statement necessarily (although I agree), but for at least thinking about it first.
As for the Boogster, take a look at this fraud. We really need to expose this guy. Below is a quote from THIS VERY BLOG. Admittedly, I excerpted portions and Boog might say that his "100%" was referring to other portions of Parent 54's statement. But that would sound like double-talk and stonewalling -- and we don't tolerate that here. Get lost, BOOG. You're making UOJ look bad. Keep going, UOJ, you're on the right track and have some good people behind you now. ________________________________ Modern Orthodox Parent 54 said... I am very embarrassed by Rav Pinchas Scheinberg. For whatever motive, to say it is not actionable because there was no penetration is woefully sick, I don't care if the Gadol is 93 or 193. He has young m'shorsim who should be able to advise and explain to him what is going on. NOTHING MAKES THE TORAH LOOK MORE FOOLISH THAN HIS STATEMENTS. He has brought a great Chilul Hashem on our community by saying what he did.
AND THE BOOG SAYS........
________________________________ boog said... modern orthodox parent 54;
Eloquently said and I agree 100% with everything you've said.
The "enablers" have much to answer for and have Jewish Blood on their hands.
Our "Leaders" are a total unmitigated disgrace. To tell the victims that there is nothing actionable because there was no penetration is unfathomable. What about Tzar, Boshes?
Boog, you're the disgrace. Everyone knows molestation is not permitted. Why did Ginzberg need to make a statement?? Open your eyes, man, the criticism of this very point was rampant. This was the easiest allegation to quash. A softball. Bit NOT ONE PERSON STEPPED UP TO KNOCK IT OUR OF THE PARK. That all changes today. Ginzberg homered.
R. Scheinberg is a guest at R. Ginzburg's shul this Shabbos. There are a world of rumours out there, and a statement in NY Mag directly implicated R. Scheinberg. Was this statement meant to be an absolute issue-exhausting explanation that came after a huge investigation? Of course not. R. Ginzburg sent a message out to members of HIS community, who are most likely to be in direct contact over this weekend, denying one of the more shocking and offensive statements in the article (the idea that R. Scheinberg would have made such a psak). As such, it is a START.
This is not R. Ginzburg coming in and making himself a central figure in the ongoing controversy.
It's not an utter clarification of everything that went on in the past.
It is simply a quick attempt to ease the situation in his home for the weekend. Is it heroic? Hardly. However, it certainly isn't an example of demonically sweeping a major issue under the rug. The fact that he (claims, at least) to have discussed this issue with the man himself prior to issuing this letter is impressive. I'd rather that than have a bunch of kanoyim making knee-jerk denials without putting it in front of the implicated man.
It could have been worse. They could have ignored (or attempted to ignore) the issue altogether. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened in the community.
The big question? What happens next. Do they leave it at this or do they come out with a more formal and complete investigation and response. That's what I'm waiting for.
you all miss the point. Ginzburg said "appropriate testimony must be given". Because the molester won't testify against himself and the child according to R' Scheinberg is not a good witness, although "child abuse" is aaur it can never be proven without adult witnesses.
This (in part)is what R' Scheinberg is alleged to have done to protect Kolko and Margulies and Ginzburg not only does not back away from that untenable stance he endorses it and cleverly sets it up as a defense of his RY.
Re: Are we going to start outing every yid in BP and flatbush who masturbates, watches porn, gambles, drinks like a shikkur, smoke pot? Excuse me, the Torah does not give someone who does these aforementioned sins meesah. However someone who is homosexual is actually mechuiv meesah. Renreb: Love the part where you shoot out his knee caps just to let him know you are going to kill him and than just continue with the torture session. Oh sorry that's my dream. Oh well, your letter was great. I just printed it out to bring to my Monsey Shul. Lippy was single when he was my Rebbe in 6th grade. He was single thru out my stay in Ma Na Vu. I always wondered why. Now my second grade Rebbe, YK, is molestiing little boys while married with children, I undrstand why Lippy finally got married. It apparently does not mean anything to these guys, the wife that is, it's all for show.
Thanks for taking your own advice. Don't expect those extra pickles and onions on your deluxe next time you come in.
Quick Perspective Anon:
Well said. Let's not pass judgment on anyone yet. Let's take UOJ's advice and give this "new guy on the scene" a chance to produce. He obviously has a direct line to Rav Sheinberg and has also clarified the biggest Chilul Hashem that's been PROVEN so far. Yes, all the other stuff is a chilul hashem as well -- but that's only if all the Gedolim knew about it and remain silent.
What we do know FOR A FACT is that a ruling was published that made every single yarmulke-wearing person look like a fool. The fact that UOJ and Boog already knew that halacha forbids this is absolutely and etnirely irrelevant. The world needed to know. And even if you say the world already knew, it's nice to see it writing. Kaulker could have said that Sheinberg's psak obviously wasn't true because "everyone knew it." "Everyone" didn't know it. The world extends beyond the blogsphere. Open your eyes.
UOJ --
My apologies for getting aggressive with you today. Please keep this up. But please do not misdirect your understandable and righteous anger toward those who do not deserve it.
In single handed fashion (or according to some, no hands) Kolko has been meakeiv the geulah for every yid reading this blog, and every yid in the world period. Forget your davening, your schuckling, your daf, whatever - no way we see the geulah in this lifetime having allowed for DOROS the destruction of our children by a deviant sex fiend and his pimp.
How did we become so busy pushing all this hashkofa, all this bein odom lmakom, that we became utterly impotent at espousing bein odom lchaveiro? I would like someone to tell me.
To any rebbe reading this, you damn well better screw your head on straight and make sure your talmidim understand that respect for others, hakoras hatov, ahavta lreiachah kamocha, comes before shachris, before you put on your tefillin, before you open a gemara.
Thanks Yidi for screwing not only any hairless male you could get your grubby hands and dirty member on, but for making sure I will not see mashiach in this lifetime. For that I hope every drop of learning you did, every dollar of tzedaka you offered, every letter of every word you mumbled in tefila will bear witness against you in shomayim to insure that your neshoma suffers mida kneged mida the way your victims suffered.
In theory, I agree with you. To absolve a child molestor on grounds of "too young to be a witness" when there's OVERWHELMING evidence to convict, is absurd.
And I'm sure Ginzberg was not talking about those instances. Ginzberg needs to protect those who are falsely accused (generally). Can you not admit that just like many Rabbi child-molestors have been in our midst for years, there have also been falsely accused good, halacha abiding Rabbonim?
They also need to be protected somehow and not allow an accused person to be convicted in the media. That was his point. He CLEARLY said he WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS CASE and, if the facts are that overwhelming (or even something more than suspicions) evidence 12-year old evidence existed of these terrible acts and, in response, Sheinberg said "can't do anything - they're all under 12," then YOU ARE, as Boog would say "100%" correct.
You and I know that, today, there's an abundance of evidence against these "evildoers."
But let's wait and see what Sheinberg said and didn't say and let's get a little context. Let's wait for letter #2.
So Relax, everyone, and pat yourselves on the back for a job well done to finally have dialogue with a Rov who is close to Rav Sheinberg.
This is something you NEVER thought would happen, and now it did. Stop losing your credibility, and give Ginzberg credit for what he did today. Otherwise, you'll just give him the impression that you're a bunch of bullies not looking for the truth, and he will not continue to communicate on this issue.
Unless, of course, that's your goal. I truly hope it isn't. Your goal should be to hang child molestors and protect future generations of children. Stay focused.
I'm not "side-stepping." You just want leaps. I'm taking small steps. Unfortunately, and as UOJ knows, in order to get these guys, it will be a marathon. If we need to take baby steps to get there, fine. A little patience, Boog. I know your mouth is watering for the sino steak, but sit your ass down and munch on some fries for a while. When all is said and done, we'll all fo to Prime Grill.
May 19, 2006 -- ALBANY - Two-term Rockland County Assemblyman Ryan Karben, a rising star in state Democratic politics, abruptly resigned yesterday amid what sources said were allegations of improper sexual approaches to young male Assembly interns. Karben's sudden and unexpected midyear departure shocked many of his fellow lawmakers, but several others - claiming that Karben was under investigation for some time for the alleged improper contacts - said they were not surprised.
A high-ranking Assembly official said he was told Monday by a senior aide to Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver that Karben, who is widely known for frequenting Albany's active night life, "had problems" because of recent allegations that the lawmaker made "unwanted advances" to male interns.
A second source, a high-ranking Democratic assemblyman, said he had received the same information.
"I know for a fact that the allegations have been made," said the Assembly member.
Karben, 31, an Orthodox Jew who is married to his high-school sweetheart and has three young daughters, was widely touted as a strong future candidate for higher office.
He could not be reached for comment yesterday. He was not at his Assembly offices in Albany or Pearl River, his private law office, or his home in Monsey.
http://www.canonist.com/?p=809
Interestingly, like Mordecai Tendler, Karben was an advocate for the kinds of issues you’d think might preclude him from this behavior:
The politician, whose 95th District covered all of Orangetown and part of Ramapo, pushed for tougher sex-offender tracking laws and environmental cleanups at several sites in Rockland.
Bull!! Let's hear the tzitzis nut explain himself. Unlikely,he's probably off somewhere with his gangster relatives selling brochas to the oilam goilam
I know people who pulled their kids out of Bobov. One rebbe was a sexual deviant. The other rebbe was a violent nut who threw a kid out an upper floor window into the asphalt lot, almost killing him.
Heshy Nussbaum was later working as a mashgiach for the COR. They had him running around to ungevarfena shtetlach so I guess he was getting a lot of mileage out of the van # cough #. If there was anything to it, I don't understand how the Vaad harabonim of Toronto hired this guy. You glassy eyed scandal guys will have a ball with this because Leib Pinter's mechitan is a big shot on the vaad. Unbelievable how all these stories are connected.
Geldwirth is defending Margulies and Kolko for a very good reason. Self preservation. If he was smart he would have stayed very far away from this mess. He must have the same advisor as Margulies and Kolko.
Lipa, get on the phone and start begging forgiveness for your actions. It's not too late. It will be soon.
What are you smoking? We need protection from actual molestors. Alleged molestors don't need protection from us. We are apparently a bunch of toothless phonies. In other words, R Ginzberg wasn't putting up defensese for mechanchim who were wrongfully accused because they don't need a defense when no one is on the offense.
I share the same eagerness as Boog in his demand of "instant" results and public rabbinic outrage. Rabbonim have had ample time to address these issues. One can't help but suspect ulterior motives when only AFTER this case garnered prominent secular attention, a lone rabbi or two opened his mouth.
Boog and other "regulars" here has been "active on the case" for a long time and it's a little different when one is a "johnny-come-lately" and has all the time in the world for rabbis to scratch their heads and issue carefully-prepared, pareve statements.
Am I making sense? If not, you can blame the 3 hours of sleep I got last night.
The below is a direct quote from Pinchus Scheinberg:
"without the testimony of two kosher aidim (adult male witnesses) there is no basis for the accusations against Kolko"
This was his outspoken position in the 1980's when he was retained by Margulies to interfere with Kolko's victims and their supporters.
Fact: There is no Halachic basis for Scheinberg's perversion of Halacha. There are clear Halachas that govern the rules of evidence when the situation calls for testimony from lone individuals, women and children the sum and substance of which are that when an incident, by its very nature, would have only one witness the testimony of that one witness is accepted.
Scheinberg's vile manipulation of clear Halach caused the destruction of numerous young lives.
No half baked letter from Rabbi Ginzgberg can change that.
To that anonymous idiot who thinks we should ban Pesach hotels to pay for yeshiva budget gaps. You sneaky little moron. You start talking about protecting children from abuse and then you try to slide that speech in. Are you Simcha Klor laying the groundwork for a new shnorring campaign ? People who work hard and make an honest living have a right to spend money. We don't work so you family empires who line your pockets from the yeshiva piggy bank can then come knocking for handouts.
If there's an issue about Pesach hotels, speak to Rabbi Ginzberg. He was scholar in residence at hotel with kashrus that's worth crap. I don't know if he doesn't have a clue or if he just doesn't care because they gave him a free stay at a luxury resort. Unless he or someone else intervened with a different set of mashgichim than usual, I hope he didn't eat any treif or chometz.
The granddaughters of rabbi Moshe Feinstein (the girls were first cousins with rabbis Mordecai and Aron Tendler) appeared in Penthouse circa 1983. It was a big scandal that was hushed up in the Orthodox world.
Their mother is sister to Mrs Tendler – mother of Mordechai and Aron.
They posed after their father died.
The common factor, I've found, in girls who decide to do this sort of thing is the lack of good father in their life. Girls who have that are rarely promiscuous, in my opinion.
“Serial sexual predators must stay away from our kids. That’s why I voted to keep sex offenders away from schools and to toughen penalties for repeat offenders who prey on our children.”
Stopping Video Voyeurs
Assemblyman Ryan Scott Karben sponsored legislation outlawing high-tech peeping toms from exploiting unwitting victims (Ch. 69 of 2003). Assemblyman Karben also supported a bill to protect stalking victims by placing an order of condition on any defendant who is found not responsible by reason of mental disease or defect and released — forcing the perpetrator to stay away from their victim and the victim’s family (A.6895-A).
Protecting Our Children From Sexual Predators
Assemblyman Karben sponsored legislation requiring mandatory life sentence without parole for those who murder children under 14 while committing felony sex crimes (A.11557). And Assemblyman Karben strengthened the Sex Offender Registration Act by allowing courts to penalize criminals who fail to register (A.11522) and disclose the aliases of sex offenders who may be trying to hide their true identity (A.11523).
Open Thread: Halakhic Whistleblowing Responsiblity My previous post on Ryan Karben prompted an interesting conversation with someone who knew him from the YU days. According to this person, Karben's affinities were an "open secret" at YU and he personally knew people who had been propositioned by Karben.
We then discussed the question of if and when someone's tendencies should be "outed." If we are aware that someone is potentially dangerous, to what extent do we pursue this person or expose the risks of being involved with such a person.
On one hand, we do have the obligation of lo ta'amod 'al dam rei'echa and cannot sit idly by while people are being harmed. If we know that there is a risk in the community, can we risk doing nothing?
On the other hand, pursuing such people needs evidence and as the Gafni and Lanner cases have shown us, they might not do much good. Furthermore, there is always the risk of slander, which is prevalent enough as it is let alone being motivated by religious or political agendas.
I'm open to suggestions.
Update: In an IM, The Town Crier points to other recent examples of whistleblowing both good and bad, including Un-Orthodox Jew and the Kolko issue
The 2 girls who posed in Penthouse were daughters of Rav Schisgal, a tzaddik who was niftar at an early age. The story was no secret, as they were interviewed on the Bob Grant Show. Every baalabusta in NY called in to tell them off for shaming their zayde R' Moishe Feinstein. My guess is that they were perverted by their sex fiend cousins Mordy & Aron Tendler.
These girls were very attractive but never got married.
UOJ, CAN YOU HELP WITH THE MAILING? ======================= A Claap on the Bima out to do the trick. ====================== A Claap on lippy's tushy should do the trick. pull his underware daown and tell him who his daddy is. UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ!
Tosh cheder is closed for years now but they used to beat the living daylights out of the kids.
A previous menahel at Ner Yisroel mesivta has fits of rage and sometimes threw bochurim down the stairs. When the roshe yeshiva R' Gavriel came he pushed out the menahel who then became menahel of even younger kids at Eitz Chaim. This guy has Frankel's shul mechutonnim too and I think Pinter's eydim from Toronto is also working for Artscroll.
Call in and speak with Jeffrey Herman, Esq. the attorney suing Kolko and Torah Temimah on:
ReplyDeleteTALKLINE WITH ZEV BRENNER America’s premier Jewish program.
Tonight, Wednesday May 17th 9-10pm
WSNR 620 AM (NY)
WLVJ 1040AM(FL)
Tell Zev to hang up on anybody who uses the following words: takeh, mamesh, oilem, soinei yisroel, eppes, shayich, or grada.
ReplyDeleteUOJ,
ReplyDeleteGod Bless you with a long and healthy life - ad meah v'esrim shana! Love you!
can you please put a copy on here for those of us who couldnt make it.
ReplyDeletewhats the latest news with klor?
ReplyDeleteI heard that YTT had a big meeting last night and that Ben Brafman is their attorney.
ReplyDelete3 "new" koko victims called in last night. 1 person was raped in YTT and another yeshiva.
ReplyDeleteWill there be another lawsuit this Friday?
ReplyDeleteZev Brenner's show last night will be available on-line. Call the station for details.
ReplyDeletewhat is the stations # ??
ReplyDeleteTo be clear, and not undermine the real allegations with hyperbolic descriptions, ONE new victim called in and he was unclear about exactly what had been done to him, although he said what happened to him in the other Yeshiva was "much worse." Pity Brenner is too much of a moron to ask obvious questions like "what exactly was done to you and by whom?" I bet Country Yossi could have conducted a less inept interview.
ReplyDeleteThe comment by Noson Scherman in New York Magazine is very telling.
ReplyDeleteScherman's deposition should be very interesting.
Scherman is a master of words, a good writer, a smart guy, and as it should be revealed, a savvy businessman. Artscroll and the Mesorah Foundation would make a fine story too. How many other publishing giants have non profits to cover all of their expenses --- and PROFITS? Smart? Artscroll, "the school" they are passionately single minded about...
ReplyDeleteHey, UOJ, wanna invest in some artscroll stock? Their offices would make nice duplexes.
It makes sense that Ben Brafman is their attorny.
ReplyDeleteHe ONLY represents gangsters. "Sammy The Bull", "Puff Daddy", "The Black Rapper" etc. etc. etc.
Need I say more?
angry alumnus
ReplyDeleteyou forgot to mention Pinter and Balkany and michael jackson.
I hear that Kolko hasn't been around Weinfeld's shul for at least a couple days. The DA had better hurry up and press charges if the perp hasn't already taken the hot cocoa express out of the country.
ReplyDeleteMargo stole loads of money too ?
ReplyDeleteDoes he trade tips with Pinter ?
UOJ,
ReplyDeleteCould you scan and post a copy of the legal papers from the estate lawyers regarding Margo dipping in TV's cookie jar ?
Can someone call the station and put a link up?
ReplyDeleteHow will Brafman defend the fact that he is defending YTT, the biggest crooks in history? And by defending them, he is condoning their behavior of avoiding bes din. He should refuse to represent them on moral grounds.
Ben Brafman is supposed to be a frumme Yid. No wonder the Mishna in Avos tells us not to be lawyers.
ReplyDeleteAnd anyone here know Shakespeare ?
UOJ,
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna stay within the rules here.
I looked back on your 3 sites. Every F*** thing you said that was gonna happen, happenned exactly the way you said it.
A year before Tendler lost his job you said he would unless he settled his case. You begged him to settle.
you outlined to the letter what would happen to YTT and begged them to deal with their problem or they would be finito.
S****, unF**** believable.
Somebody yesterday told me you are Mordecai Tendler trying to divert attention from himself. I cracked up.
All the conspiracy theorists are having a blast.
Maybe you're mashiach who knows.
Rabboysei,
ReplyDeleteLipa Margulies is not responding to hazmonnos to appear in beis din, which in itself is grounds to put him in chayrim. Now that Jeff Herman has been mefarsem allegations that Margulies is using mob tactics to threaten people with physical harm, the frum community MUST DEMAND from our rabbonim that a beis din deal with this. Margulies must be put in chayrim and forced to abdicate any control he has over the yeshiva. If not, beis din must posken that no one is allowed to enroll their child in such a makom tinofes.
There is a chiyuv on every yrei Hashem to bring this topic up with the rabbonus. This is also the right time to start a public petition that has been ignored in the past.
Anyone who does not speak up to stop this monstrous Chilul Hashem and rishus will have to answer for it.
Mi L'Hashem Aylei
"Somebody yesterday told me you are Mordecai Tendler"
ReplyDeleteI thought he was Ben Hirsch?? Perhpas Mordechai Tendler, UOJ and Ben Hirsch are one and the same. In addition, I believe that UOJ is responsible for Chandra Leavy. Jon Benet Ramsey and 9/11. How's that for a conspiracy theory?
If UOJ is of a rabbinic family, not only a wealthy one, this would explain why he is a billionaire. Can anyone imagine what his zechuyos are worth?
ReplyDeleteUOJ is not a navi. He merely knows the power of public opinion. The same goes for advertising. Slime exposed to the limelight becomes jello, especially if gelatin isn't kosher.
Ben Brafman is supposed to be a frumme Yid. No wonder the Mishna in Avos tells us not to be lawyers.
ReplyDeleteAnd anyone here know Shakespeare ?
It's a shame that such a potentially excellent blog has such assinine commentors. Every individual is entitled to a defense, in fact, if Kolko does NOT receive a full and fair defense, he cannot be found liable (or guilty, should criminal charges be filed). Brafman's just a human being who's good at his job. When was the last time you turned down a store's "no tax" policy, or reported every penny you made to the government, nevenensky? And which mishnah exactly are you referring to, dumbass?
Where is Eliot Pasik, ESQ?
ReplyDeleteHas it finally sunk in through Margo's thick skull that he's completely finished ? Or does the baal guyveh still think he's coming out of this, azoi vi shteit Hichbadti es Liboi ?
ReplyDeleteBen Brafman is a capable attorney and in our legal system, attorneys are paid to do what is in the best interests of their clients. You aren't wrong. How could anyone choose to be a lawyer? Most attoneys, however, are practical people with bills to pay, full tuitions, expensive homes, maids, credit cards and would like to invest in uoj's shopping malls and condominiums. If you were an attorney's wife, you'd have certain expectations, realistic expectations, like, shopping. For shalom bayis, for the sake of Toirah, for the protection of due process, everything our society holds dear, lawyers must protect everybody's right to pay their legal bills.
ReplyDeleteBen Brafman pays his bills. He is a good man.
Pick up NEW YORK Magazine (Dated May 22), the KOLKO story is on the COVER (Good Job UOJ) Tank You!
ReplyDeleteMr. Anonymous who defends Brafman,
ReplyDeleteI didn't voice an attack on lawyers for nothing.
As far as the Mishna in Avos, the wording used is "orchei hadayanim"
You completely missed the boat on the function of legal representation. An individual lawyer is completely within his rights to refuse a client. You can rant all you want about assumed innocence, but even that ultra left wing shmuck Bill Kunstler turned down Terry McVeigh, due to the presumption of guilt after the Oklahoma City bombing. If no one is willing to defend a pile of dreck like Margo, a court appointed attorney would do his best.
As far as that reference to Nevenensky's anatomy, it sounds like your head is buried in it.
"Ben Brafman pays his bills"
ReplyDeletewhat service do you provide him?
Remember when I ran those radio ads for IDT about "completely uncensored" internet browsing ? Yudi Kolko was the first customer who signed up. Our customer service girls remarked they couldn't believe that the first commercial hadn't even finished airing and he had already called in. I apologize to klal Yisrael that I didn't take this as a red flag.
ReplyDeleteTo make up for it, maybe there's something I can do to help take care of a long list of clowns who are next.
Margo
Leib Pinter
Sam Pinter
Simcha Klor
Artscroll
The Jewish Press
Who cares about Mr. Bomer. I always thought social studies teachers are weirdos anyway.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry Martucci, when the whole student body gets transferred out by their parents, you can get a job at Chaim Berlin who will be scrambling to hire more teachers.
Hear yea, hear yea,
ReplyDeleteAll us teachers had better bail out now.
You can bet that Margo is going to stiff us out of at least a few paychecks when he finally gets with the program and realizes his gig is up.
Hello - if you are so wealthly and so well connected - why don't you creat a standing Bais Din that can deal effectively with these issues. So you may have helped David - but what about all the other victims? Create a place where victims can feel safe to turn and their accuations can be investigated fairly and without all of this commotion. A special group trained to deal with these sitiuations effectively. Same results, no commotion.
ReplyDelete...or Mr.Martucci you could always go back to selling women's underwear.
ReplyDeleteOh wow ! There's a scandal here !
ReplyDeleteUOJ, Could you be so kind as to cut me in for a book on Kolko and Margo from my Yashar Books company ? I know I referenced you at the RCA forum as a scandalmonger, but for profit sake, let's let bygones be bygones.
Move out of the way Gil, there's no room for two bit, backstabbing amateurs like you.
ReplyDeleteA book about complex villians like Kolko and Margo has to be handled by the pros.
We're also different than Artscroll as we don't have hyper-crooks like Pinter writing for us.
Feldheim, student;
ReplyDeleteGelt is a 4-letter word
Philip Feldheim,
ReplyDeleteYou'd better smarten up. Your nephew who is rosh yeshiva in Bucks County, hired Pinter's kid to be a rebbe.
Brafman was attacked because he has taken it upon himself in the past to preach to the rest of us about ethics and the like. If you didn't know that, then you are like someone coming in in the middle of a conversation - you don't really get it but you think you do.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is that people were upset at him then, and they are even more upset at him now. It's not about a man's right to make an honest living and it's not about regular people going to law school and becoming lawyers. It's about someone pretending to be holier than everyone else, when in reality 'the emporor is wearing no clothes.'
Additionally, by defending Margulies he is indirectly contributing to a tremendous problem/scandal right in our very community.
I think it would behoove a frum lawyer from within the community to step aside on this one. Maybe that would send a message to YTT that we are not taking his s*** anymore and he better change his ways.
If 'ethically superior' brafman wants to make a living by defending gangsters, that's one thing. But when ethically superior brafman defends people who have harmed in the past, and continue to harm, children and entire families of our community, then people are cynical and possibly upset if not entirely outraged.
I'm waiting to see an EMERGENCY ASIFA called by the Moetzes or Torah Umesorah; and officially declare that they will be setting up a totally "independent" panel of professionals to deal with abuse allegations in the yeshiva/bais yaakov schools.
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting to see Yisroel Belsky declare on the steps of city hall that the Orthodox Jews are going to deal with sexual abuse in atleast as an important fashion as they have dealt with metziza b'peh.
Brafman is no magician; his circus act ultimately has to be sold to a jury in downtown Brooklyn.
ReplyDeleteGood Luck!
margo is going to give in he will not kill his yeshiva he is learning the hard way
ReplyDeleteat the TT dinner kolko was not on the video they cut him out he has retired
I guess Israel is next
UOJ,
ReplyDeleteDon't hold your breath. The only asifa that will be held, will be one discussing how to keep future incidents away from media attention.
Before his wedding, "Shmuel" phoned a former TT rebbi of his and asked if it would be OK to give him a brocha under the chuppah. Margo found out and said unless he (Margo) would be allowed to be the mesader kiddushin, it ain't happening.
ReplyDeletehow to get a besulah for every godol. yiftach bedoro ki'shmuel be'doro and our gedolim are no worse than dovid
ReplyDeleteTO anon excoriating ben brafman:
ReplyDeleteLet's not allow a lawyer's religion to dictate their professional assessment as to the efficacy of taking on a client.
Your logic is flawed. Developing your point further would dictate that Jeff Herman, an Orthodox Jewish lawyer should not have taken on David Framowitz as a client. Why are you not attacking him?
Herman has brought suit on behalf of Catholic children who have been sexually abused by priests. He's on the record as stating that he sees this as protecting children from abuse regardless of their religious persuasion.
I believe that Brafman deserves the same professional courtesy.
Brafman has supported yeshivos and assumedly has fondness for Torah VoDaath. As was noted, he is defending the gedoilim, the moetzes, Klal Yisroel. What a guy.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Belsky is an anav and probably feels he's a cog, lowly, not the equal of gedoilim. What the world needs is Dateline coverage of Rav Shteinman's stirring address to the Toirah Umesoirah convention this weekend. With the help of our gedoilim, Klal Yisroel will be saved.
This Ben Brafman is a massive cop out. He defends the most vile creatures on the face of the earth, puff daddy, michael jackson, margo, but its ok because its what he does for a living. Yes your a lawyer Ben but your supposed to be a Jew and a human being first. That means your supposed to have a conscience and act morally and ethically. Its immoral to lend credibility to child molesters and their protectors. Its an affront to their victims and yes you are morally obligated to care about those victims because your a Jew and a human being.
ReplyDeleteThere are some things that are more important than money and glory. I remember the New York Times interviewed Barry Scheck, one of OJ Simpsons Jewish lawyers, he said something like he has nightmares thinking about the parents of Ron Goldman, the young jewish man that monster hacked to death. So why did he help his murderer go free? He will answer to G-d for committing the heinous crime of preventing justice from being done for the soul of a murdered jewish man. You too Ben Brafman will answer to G-d for helping this heinous protecter and enabler of a man who destroyed countless lives of Jewish children. Have you no heart? Have you no soul? Is all that matters fame and fortune? Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
Every person is entitled to an attorney. Every attorney has the right to accept or decline an individual client.
ReplyDeleteAt some point an attorney/human being has to decide if he wants to defend a particular "type" of client.
Hypothetical; Brafman gets Kolko off, Kolko molests more children rather then being put in a treatment center in a prison out of the reach of kids.
That's where I would draw the line.
I am just curious,
ReplyDeletebeing that the stuatue of limitations have long passed...is it a possibility that Rabbi K will actually have to sit in jail? I have been following your website and I would like to give you UOJ a big yasher koach! thank you for bringing this to the ATTENTION it finally deserves!
A relevant problem is that part of the defense strategy will be attacking the witnesses credibility. I am not happy that Mr. Brafman - one of us- has taken it upon himself to be attacking these poor yiddishe neshomos. He will only be finishing up what Margo started. Mr. Brafman, you would be better off if you orchestrated the Enron disaster. After Margo loses and gets railroaded out of this community, Mr. Brafman should be next.
ReplyDeleteThe shofet kol ha-Arets will arrange mishpat for all. Business is business. Someone has to do the dirty work. If the heilige Rosh Yeshiva insists upon being mesader his own case, justice will be served, u-l'petach chatat rovets.
ReplyDeleteThere are victims under the statute.
ReplyDeleteIf UOJ would buy the DA Charles Hynes back from our 'gedolim' then maybe Charles could be convinced to bring criminal charges against Kolko (and all co-conspirators) based on the allegations of a 22 year old yeshiva bochur. (as long as the charges are brought before he has his 23rd birthday the statute has not run).
ReplyDeleteI say Brafman must make the moral decision if "he" wants to defend a vile sexual predator and his protectors.
ReplyDeleteIf he does accept the case, Herman will destroy him.
Worry not, Herman's abilities are legendary in this field.
But, how will you know, until the case is decided, when to draw the line? If YK is convicted of a felony, a first time offender, he'll do time and be placed on a registry etc. If not, and the case is only decided in civil court with the bulk of the money paid out from the value of the real estate on ocean parkway, Flatbush will be called upon to mortgage itself to save a Toirah moisad, a new, improved YTT. UOJ's family will receive another plaque.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations. Smile for the photographer.
Evrey person may be entitled to an attorney from a strictly legal point of view. That doesn't mean evrey person deserves an attorney. That doesn't mean evrey person should be defended. Thinking Jews and human beings believe that they have to make moral choices of conscience that no law can dictate. The classical example is the Nazis who were not only "following orders" but also following the German racial laws. The law is amoral and many times highly immoral. People are moral. Big time criminal defense lawyers especially jewish liberals like Alan Dershowitz hide behind the "law" as if it were some kind of bible discerning right from wrong. As I stated its a massive cop out. Stand up like a man and take a moral stand. If you defend Kolko and Margo than you are making a moral statement that you believe in what they have done. Nothing could be more repulsive.
ReplyDeleteI'll be honest. Brafman getting Kolko and Margo off the hook doesn't bother me. I am not a victim and I have no sense of revenge. G-d will take care of the evildoers. Let them get their punishment below.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that if Kolko and Margo are back in business then all molestors are back in business and our kids aren't safe.
After Brafman digs the bor birishus harabim he has a chiyuv to cover it up. The way he will do that is by pushing Pasik's legislation through the legislature. Brafman will create a Sarbanes-Oxley type of Act for molestors.
That responsibility will be solely on Ben's shoulders b/c he dug the bor, and b/c he is the best. He has the money, the power, the connections and the know-how. If he loves Toyrah, and if he loves our yiddishe kinderlach, then he will do the right thing.
And he will do it for free!
And he will do it for free
ReplyDelete________________________
what are you smoking buddy?
In business is there room for emotion? Is morality the goal? Ask anyone in construction.
ReplyDeleteMoshe P.,
ReplyDeleteTake this to the bank; there will be an independent panel of professionals handling abuse allegations in the Orthodox Jewish world.
Sooner rather than later...or heads will fly.
I'll single-handedly shut down any organization that attempts to block it.
Flames, pain, and fury - read at your own risk
ReplyDeleteHello, blogland. Thank you for bearing with me while I attempted to get my thoughts in order.
Here we go.
I'm not completely sure of everything I want to say about the current thing that's been making me feel like vomiting. No, it is NOT the same thing as the thing that was making me want to rip people's hair out the other night; that was a totally different matter, a private matter pertaining to someone I know. But I was ripping hair out over that matter way before I found out about this article in New York Magazine.
First of all, the subtitle "Do The Orthodox Jews Have A Catholic-Priest Problem?" is revolting, obscene, and worthy of a supermarket rag. "Catholic-priest problem." How infantile. Leave it to a distinguished publication (HA!!) like New York Magazine to say something like that. The Catholic Church should sue or something. If I were a priest (CHECKLIST!!) (and yes, I realize my not being Catholic or male (CHECKLIST!!) would present a few obstacles to that), I would sure as heck want to sue.
So the article is sort of about a problem of individuals who purport to be Orthodox rabbis engaging in sexual abuse of children/teens, and the inexplicable, despicable phenomenon of people in power brushing the victims off when they seek help, and then covering up the allegations, and allowing the accused to continue to have access to children.
*calming breath*
So it's sort of about this problem in general, but it focuses mainly on the alleged behavior of one such individual by the name of Yehuda Kolko, who spent decades (decades!) as a teacher at Yeshivat Torah Temimah in Brooklyn, and has been on PAID LEAVE (*deep breath*) since the story hit the press. Kolko, apparently, managed somehow to retain his position as teacher - for DECADES - despite allegations that surfaced periodically - over decades - and of which the head of school, Lipa Margulies, was completely aware.
*several calming breaths*
I just don't understand what goes through people's heads sometimes.
First of all, don't waste your time, or mine, telling me that I don't know if the allegations are true. You're right; I don't know if they're true. I also don't know if it's true that the Jews left Egypt after generations of slavery. You know why I don't know if either of these things are true? Because I wasn't there.
If one child comes to me and tells me he's been fondled by an adult, I don't know if it's true, and I will sure as hell investigate myself into oblivion before I draw any conclusions. And of course, investigating myself into oblivion doesn't allow me to "know," either. Absent a videotape that can be proven not to have been doctored, all the investigations in the world will still not allow me to know. I will never "know." Because I wasn't there. That's the unfortunate reality of human beings attempting to hold other human beings accountable for improper or illegal behavior. That's the unfortunate reality of any justice system, anywhere on this planet. A justice system is fallible, because human beings are fallible, and only the people who were there will ever really "know" who, if anyone, is telling the truth.
So, as I was saying. If one child came to me and accused one adult, I would reserve judgment and would hopefully not be prejudiced in favor of either party until further evidence was brought to light. But let's say several children came to me. Let's say these are children who have never met each other; children who are generally not psychotic and don't stand to gain much by lying; let's say these children describe similar, but not identical, incidents of behavior by that same adult; let's say these incidents are supposed to have taken place over a long period of time, in different locations and under different circumstances; let's say these children don't know anything about each other's accusations, and yet the stories bear striking similarities; let's say that years later, I continue to receive similar stories from other people, in a pattern that continues unchanged; well, then, you know what? I still wasn't there, so I still don't know. But I'd be pretty damn confident, if all of that happened, that what we are dealing with here is a pedaphile and a sexual predator. It is far, far more likely that this person is a pedaphile than it is that ALL of these accusers, from different times and different places, accusers who don't know each other, happened to have made up, for whatever reason, almost precisely the same stories about the same person.
It is possible, of course. People do make up stories. People make up stories about abuse, people make up stories about robberies, and rapes, and assaults, and God only knows what else. But you know what? Most of the time, they don't.
So I believe that Yehuda Kolko is a pedaphile and a predator. And I believe that Margulies covered up Kolko's actions and ennabled him to continue. I believe there is enough evidence to conclude this even if they haven't yet been convicted in court. If I'm wrong, then perhaps I'm going to hell. But don't waste our time telling me that I shouldn't be saying this, that I shouldn't believe it, and that I shouldn't "assume" before it's been "proven." Because it can never be "proven," and I'm not assuming, I'm concluding. And you know what? You weren't there either.
OK. So.
Over the past several days I've been reading a lot of stuff, including following a reeeeeaaaaaally long comments thread on DovBear (comments to this post, but beware, reading all of them could take hours), and I've learned some of the details, not only of the abuse, but of the cover-ups - MULTIPLE cover-ups - that took place over the years.
I've learned, for example, that Margulies and Kolko managed, over the years, to stonewall various batei din (rabbinic courts, to which Jews are supposed to bring interpersonal disputes as a first course of action), and that they repeatedly engaged in intimidation, threats, and so forth of accusers and their families. And apparently there are dozens upon dozens of victims, and all of them were silenced, and none of them were listened to, and Kolko continued to teach. I've been reading this. And my mind has been churning with all sorts of stuff.
Part of me wants to write about how I'm going to kill Kolko, how I'm going to - well - never mind. I'll spare you the vivid images seething through my brain. But the truth is that I almost don't blame Kolko for his behavior. ALMOST. I do blame him, thoroughly. But I can't help almost feeling sorry for him at the same time, at least on some level.
I don't know that much about the psychology of pedaphiles, but I'm pretty sure they are seriously ill. By "pedaphile," I don't mean someone who has necessarily acted on their urges; I mean someone who is sexually attracted to children, consumingly and overwhelmingly so. This person has an illness, if I'm not mistaken, one that's outrageously difficult to treat. Now, many pedaphiles may ALSO be evil, depraved monsters, but they don't have to be. Being a pedaphile in itself doesn't make a person evil and depraved. Molesting children, in the opinion of this fallible human being, does make a person evil and depraved. But I would imagine that it's also possible for a non-evil, non-depraved, good person to suffer from overwhelming sexual attraction to children. They have it in their capacity to control their behavior; nothing and nobody forces a pedaphile to become a predator. But I'm fairly certain that people with this illness have extraordinary difficulty keeping themselves at bay.
I don't know. I realize there's no excuse for them to act on their impulses. But I personally find the whole disease tragic, much more so than other deviant sexual urges. First of all, because supposedly the urge is worse than others, is uncommonly powerful and overwhelming, and it tends to become obsessive and incapacitating. That's what I've read, anyway, and that totally sucks. But I also believe it's worse because acting on this one would not only be bizarre, like the person I read about who felt sexually attracted to men's public bathrooms, and it would not only be immoral, like having consensual sex with your adult sibling. Acting on this one would be evil. There is no such thing as a child consenting to such a thing, because a child does not have the capacity to consent to such a thing, so by definition if you act on it you are a rapist, a molester, and you are evil.
So I find it tragic, that a person would have to live with himself like that. Can you imagine living with something like that? Can you imagine trying to seek help for something like that? Forget seeking help; imagine just trying to summon the courage to admit it, even to yourself. If people in this society are so horrified and ashamed to admit that they might be gay, can you imagine a person, a person who is otherwise a fully "normal," functioning, compassionate member of the human race; can you imagine such a person trying to come to grips with the fact that he is uncontrollably attracted to children??? What's more, children of the same sex??? Knowing full well what the world would think of him if they ever found out, and knowing full well that to act upon it would be evil and depraved?? If you constantly obsess about doing something that is evil and depraved, well, it's not such a far leap to start feeling pretty evil and depraved yourself, even if you have never acted on it. If such a person did not already happen to be evil and depraved, can you imagine the self-hatred he would feel, not to mention the levels of denial?? I sure as hell can't.
I don't know why Hashem would present such challenges to a person, any person, evil OR good. I don't know why Hashem does a lot of things. And I also don't know whether Yehuda Kolko's despicable actions are a case of an evil bastard behaving like an evil bastard, or a case of a formerly good guy with insurmountable problems turning himself into an evil bastard. And if it's the second thing, well, then he's a victim too, a victim of himself, and he has to pay the consequences not only for what he did to all those children, but he has to pay the consequences for destroying his own soul.
GAAAAH. I hate this. Too many things churning in my mind. I want to kill a man because he's evil and sick, and I feel sorry for him because he's evil and sick. What's wrong with me, anyway? Do I have to feel sorry for everybody? Some things are black and white, you know. Molesting children is black and white. I feel I'm supposed to unreservedly hate this man. But I can't. I can only reservedly hate him, but I do so with every fiber of my being. And that doesn't even make sense. I wish I knew for sure what was in his mind when he did what he did. I would still want to kill him, in a slow, painful, highly graphic manner, but at least I would know for sure whether or not I should mourn for him after I did.
*squeeze eyes shut and shake head like wet dog*
OK (no, not ok, but I'm trying to clear my head). So. Kolko is a pedaphile and a predator and he belongs in prison, and the whole thing is horrible, and it sucks. It SUCKS.
But here's the part I don't understand even more than I don't understand pedaphilia.
I don't understand Lipa Margulies and his ilk. Here we have someone who it's impossible to feel sorry for. A person who, apparently, is a through-and-through evil bastard piece of s.
I will never understand evil bastard pieces of s., never understand people who threaten and intimidate and who seem to get off on people's fear and victimization. He's evil, he's a criminal, and he belongs in prison as much, if not more so, than Kolko. Him, I want to kill. Him, I will not mourn. And I would call upon every member of the Jewish nation to join me in spitting on his grave.
(that's a little extreme, isn't it... oh for the love of God, now I'm doubting myself about this too... I mean, it's not for me to decide who's evil, is it? or is it? help....)
But here's the part that I understand the absolute, positive, least of all. And I hereby give everyone fair warning that I'm about to embark upon a screaming rampage, so if you don't want to read one, go away.
*deep breath*
*pause*
I don't understand us. I don't understand myself. I don't understand apathy, and complacency, and cowardice. I don't understand the Jewish people.
I don't understand how this was allowed to continue.
I don't understand how regular people in the community allowed this to continue.
I don't understand how so-called "leaders" of the Jewish community allowed this to continue.
What I don't understand, so help me God, is why somebody didn't CALL THE POLICE. Someone, somewhere, at some point. Screw going to a beit din. By all means, first, go to a beit din. But that was tried in this case, and the beit din was not working. The beit din stalled and fumbled. The beit din was not functional. And it should not have taken months of not getting a response from the beit din for the people involved to realize that the beit din was not functional. You know why? Because what you do in this situation is as follows:
YOU CALL THE POLICE.
So that's what the beit din should have done. And when the beit din didn't, somebody else should have.
I realize that the halachik issues of mesirah (handing a fellow Jew over to the non-Jewish authorities) are extremely, extremely complex. And PLEASE don't start posting about those halachot here. The sources are innumerable, there have been articles and teshuvot written for centuries, and whatever anybody says, it is not a simple matter, and we are NOT going to clear it all up in a comments section on a blog. Even if the halachot seem clear-cut to you, they are NOT clear-cut to everybody, and that IS completely legitimate. That, I understand, and I fully adhere to that notion. The NOTION. But what I do not understand is why, and how, so many people are so thoroughly immobilized by the notion of mesirah, or worse, by some perverted and incorrect understanding of lashon hara, that they would allow a child molester - a CHILD MOLESTER!! - to remain free.
Nowhere do the halachot of mesirah state that mesirah is more serious and more important than protecting children from a sexual predator. This was a far more serious matter than mesirah. The halachot of mesirah may not be clear-cut, but some things ARE clear-cut, and protecting children from a sexual predator is one of them.
HELLO?!?!?
I feel like I'm banging on an empty tin can here. "Hello! Hello! Anybody in there?!?!" Because for my life, I cannot understand how this is not clear cut and obvious, to everybody.
Child.
Molester.
Adult.
Fondling.
Boys.
Which word do we not understand???
How DARE the beit din not call the police. And how dare anybody who knew about the allegations not call the police. AND HOW DARE ANYBODY DISTORT AND HIDE BEHIND THE TORAH AND THE HALACHA AS THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR NOT CALLING THE POLICE.
Follow the halacha and call a beit din or a halachic authority first. And if the halachic authority is too much of a blind and castrated wimp and coward to call the police himself, or to tell you to do so, then YOU DO IT YOURSELF.
IMMEDIATELY.
If you don't, you are an enabler, a coward, a distorter of halacha and the Torah, an embarrassment to the Jewish people, and a failure to our children. But you, yourself, are none of these things in comparison to the halachic authority who didn't take action himself. His obligation is ten times greater than your own. Because he is in a position of leadership, power, and influence, and people depend on him and look to him for guidance, and he knows that, or at least he should. So the failure and the obligation is on his head a thousandfold.
Shame on our leaders, of every denomination, who have ever allowed a thing like this to occur or to continue. Shame on ourselves. Shame on anyone who thinks some distorted, watered-down version of lashon hara, mesirah, and malbin pnei chaverio b'rabim (sorry for the transliteration, not in the mood to type Hebrew) somehow trump pikuach nefesh/lo ta'amod, chilul Hashem, v'asita hayashar v'hatov, and the gazillion other things I can think of off the top of my head.
Shame on the system we've somehow put in place that allows anyone to grow up thinking this way. Shame on anyone who waves a banner of Torah and righteousness as they actively place our children in harm's way, and as they enable a dangerous, monstrous criminal to go free. And shame on anyone who has the unspeakable gall to condemn those who understand their religious and moral obligations well enough to do something about it.
I will never understand this. This is blindness, arrogance, and madness. This is a defamation of Judaism, a defamation of the Torah, an insurmountable chillul Hashem, and anyone and everyone who has ever said or thought any of these things is an embarrassment to Judaism, an embarrassment and a danger to our people, and should take it upon themselves to do some serious cheshbon hanefesh (introspection) (sort of), starting right now.
Sometimes I wish I didn't have to be anonymous. I wish I could post details about my husband's background here. Because he agrees with me (about this, anyway), and I know it would make a difference to at least some people if they knew that my husband happens to be a tremendous talmid chacham, that he's quite highly respected, and that he very likely knows more Torah than - well - a lot of people. But I don't expect you to believe me when I say that, because I can't give you a name.
People, we can't allow this kind of thing to go on. It's a travesty and a horror and an incredible failure that it went on. We must find the parts of ourselves that allowed it to go on, and we must do everything in our power to wash those places clean.
I have more to say on these and related matters, but I think I'm done for now. I just wish I had a better sense of where to go from here.
renreb:
ReplyDeleteThanks
I'll be honest. Brafman getting Kolko and Margo off the hook doesn't bother me.
ReplyDelete========================
If that's the way you feel you belong nowhere near any discussion about a registry to protect our children from the likes of Margulies and Kolko.
WOW!! And I thought "War & Peace" was long!
ReplyDeleteAgree: Much shame, depravity, callousness, and evil.
Heartfelt and on point.
ReplyDeletedeep breath.
ReplyDeletebubble. bubble.
What does it feel like to have the power to "shut down" any institution?
ReplyDeleteNot to say that you're wrong. You are right, but this is a role for governments, not rich kids.
Someone onced mentioned on this site that if lipa geldwerth does nor shut his yam, he will be brought out of the closet as well.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone explain what that meant?
Thanks.
Ruach Chaim Yeshiva (mother/parent)
Ruach Chaim Mother:
ReplyDeleteAsk him.
anon;
ReplyDeleteGov't?!! What you been smoking, Jack? The gov't has failed miserably. Hynes is a joke and semi-senile. He is putty in the hands of the enablers, obfuscators, and Zwiebel's Agudah.
No UOJ-no NY mag article, no Jeff Herman, no Elliot Pasik being brought to our attention, no Kolko being kicked out by margo; the last Survivor?-no nothing.
The Power Brokers are maneuvering to make koko the last case and then it's back to business as usual. Don't be surprised if koko very quietly slips out on the midnight train to Jerusalem before the trial ever starts.
Say Hey, Willie, can you imagine Mondrowitz and koko teaming up to open a Day Care Center?
Stephen King, where are you?
An old joke:
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Whats faster then a penny rolling downhill?
Answer: Margo running after it!!
New joke:
Question: Whats faster then a fat Margo rolling downhill?
Answer: Torah Temimah being made into condos!!!
Spokane Diocese Sex Abuse Deal Rejected
ReplyDeleteBy JOHN K. WILEY
Associated Press Writer
SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) -- A federal judge rejected a $45.7-million settlement Thursday for 75 people who have filed sex abuse claims against the bankrupt Roman Catholic Diocese of Spokane.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Patricia Williams threw out the agreement during a telephone conference hearing, according to lawyers who took part. The judge urged the dozens of lawyers representing the diocese, victims, parishes and other parties to enter into mediation.
The judge, noting that bankruptcy law calls for settlements to be "fair and equitable" to all parties, decided the deal favored the 75 people over other alleged victims, lawyers for both sides said.
The deal, announced earlier this year, was controversial from the start because it covered only a fraction of those who had filed lawsuits contending they were abused by priests in Spokane. About 185 individual claims have been filed against the diocese, although Williams has said some are duplicates and others are invalid.
"I think the elements of the settlement we proposed with the 75 victims still have merit. The judge clearly found concerns with some elements," said Shaun Cross, a lawyer representing the diocese.
Spokane Bishop William Skylstad, president of U.S. Catholic bishops, is among the clerics accused of abuse in the bankruptcy claims. He has vehemently denied having sexual relations with a woman in the 1960s.
The diocese filed for bankruptcy protection in 2004, citing abuse claims of about $81.3 million against assets of about $11 million. Spokane is one of three U.S. dioceses that have filed for bankruptcy because of the abuse crisis.
Mike Ross, a member of the Spokane chapter of Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, who would have been covered by the diocese's settlement offer, said the judge's ruling will ensure everyone gets compensated.
"I think it's positive. All victims need to be compensated for their pain and suffering," he said.
However, David Clohessy, national director of SNAP, said by e-mail from St. Louis that the judge's rejection of the diocese's offer will hurt victims who thought they would be compensated.
"Our hearts ache for the dozens of deeply wounded and still hurting victims who thought a deal with the bishop was a deal," Clohessy wrote. "Equality is a valuable goal, but so too is healing and closure."
Gayle Bush, a Seattle lawyer who co-wrote an alternative victim payment plan, said the diocese's proposed settlement failed to take into account victims who did not sue, or those who come forward in the future.
"The ruling today was a very clear statement from the court that the confirmation of a plan in bankruptcy requires fair and equal treatment for all members of the same class," he said. "Her conclusion was the proposed settlement agreement did not meet the bankruptcy code standards for fair and equal treatment."
Lawyers representing people not covered by the settlement earlier this week filed an alternative plan that would assess individual parishes nearly two-thirds of the market value of their churches and schools in exchange for avoiding possible foreclosures
Stephen King is watching and learning. No one does real life horror like Margulies. No one.
ReplyDeletei heard that cocoa is getting the heck out of here QUICKLY!!!!
ReplyDelete\
ReplyDeleteUOJ you're a little arrogant tot hink you can shut down any insituttion.
You still haven't even done anything to TT. The yeshiva is standing. Nothing has happened other than the rebbi leaving.
What is the big deal?
COol it. You're not as hot as you think.
He can run but he can't hide. We will make certain he molests no more.
ReplyDeleteAnon:
ReplyDeleteClearly a TT student.
Question: How much longer do you thing TT will be around?
D.A.
ReplyDeleteAbout time!
uoj has the right to be arrogant. He is accustomed to getting what he wants and he has a wall full of plaques, so there.
ReplyDeleteHe also happens to be on the right side of the line, at the head of the line.
They will extradite him if he runs off to the Holy Land. Ben Brafman will know what to say.
ReplyDeleteA third world country might be okay. Pirchei, like Lubavitch, meets the world.
UOJ is, as always, nauseatingly self righteous and complacent. Of course he's angry that brafman might represent kolko. A fair trial? How can we allow that? The only acceptable thing to do is assume that kolko's guilty right now. String him up, and who needs a trial.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, if a beis din of moshe rabbenu, shmuel hanavi and rabbi akiva would convene and find kolko innocent, UOJ would be out there badmouthing this corrupt akiva guy, and insinuating that moshe stole the emeralds from the luchos. Fair trial? Hah! Fair = what UOJ thinks.
The haftora of achron shel pesach refers to the praiseworthy judge who doesnt decide based on what he sees (in New York Magazine) or hears (over the rumor mill). He uses his thought and wisdom to rule, instead. This message is a powerful one, but its lost on both ideologues and demagogues who are convinced with absolute certainty that ONLY their way is right.
UOJ doesnt realize this, but he's as much a godol worshipper as the rabbis he's lacing into. He just sees himself as a godol, or maybe just as god.
Sorry, but I'm not buying it, and for the sake of your souls, neither should you.
uoj is not nauseating. He isn't entirely self righteous either or complacent. I have no idea who he is and his identity deserves to be protected. He's done a public service. If you can't see the problems at ytt, you are blind. History will prove the righteousness of the "rosh yeshiva." Right. A joke.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, uoj = rabbi scheinberg
ReplyDeleteWeren't the luchos made of saphire not emeralds. Apparently they don't have any books on gemology in Margo's house
uoj
ReplyDeletedo you believe homosexuals should be killed?
Also do you fear that someone will take your tactic of inciting on blogs, but actually accuse innocent people?
are you throwing the bathwater out with the baby?
have you opened a pandora box, and is there a way to get the genie back in?
Has this site become a mob mentality?
Hasitgonetoofar:
ReplyDeleteWhile Kolko and Margulies are guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt and Kolko is not a homosexual but rather a sick predator who harms children, you do make one good point.
We as a community must put as much effort into preventing a witch hunt as we put into protecting our children from the likes of Margulies and Kolko.
Please remember that the instant matter is one where there has been an endless cry for forty years. Also note that the number of victims coming forward who were abused by Margulies & Kolko are growing daily.
does this ring a bell for anyone ...... in MANAVU how Kolko would call boys up for Havdalah ? ...always picked certian ones
ReplyDeletemaybe lippy gelworth will speak in his shul about the good old times that cocoa & himself had at the cocoa club together
ReplyDeleteAnyone see Simcha Klor recently? He looks like the devil!
ReplyDeleteHe's not busy with his school al all. He could not give two flips if it fell apart.
He's busy with the bungalow colony that he just purchased WITH THE FLATBUSH COMMUNITY'S MONEY!!!!!!
SHELDREK DORMS!!!!
i didnt mean to imply kloko was homsexual.
ReplyDeleteit was an unrelated question to rants i have seen from uoj about homosexuals
Does UOJ believe homosexuals who dont bother anyone, should be killed?
It also scares me that the commenters who have come on this blog have used other peoples names as their alias as if its a big joke.
What did alot of these people do to deserve such rishus.
Gimmmmeeeee a break guys. All I did was methodically add up all the pieces of information I had and get the world's attention by providing colorful language.
ReplyDeleteDon't give me too much credit; recognition that you too can make a difference is the lesson learned here.
http://www.canonist.com/?p=803#comment-12642
ReplyDeleteI don’t know why the obvious is lost on so many people. Margo has been proven to be dishonest and could have easily lied to rav Scheinberg about what happened. Some of what Kolko has been accused of is “tickling” boys and NOT even on their private parts. (Although granted these boys broke away quickly and are convinced that Kolko would explore them further if he had the chance.) Rav Scheinberg could have been told that boys were tickled on their stomachs or the like which is inappropriate but not criminal, with Margo keeping the more lurid details from him.
Time to fry Margo,
ReplyDeleteYou gotta be kidding. I have first-hand info that Scheinberg was told everything in lurid detail. Cut the crap!
So then why wasn't Rav Scheinberg asked to appear in beis din and named as a defendant in the lawsuit ?
ReplyDeleteSo then why wasn't Rav Scheinberg asked to appear in beis din and named as a defendant in the lawsuit ?
ReplyDelete============================
He will be.
UOJ,
ReplyDeletePosters on the Dov Bear blog claim you were present when a victim attacked Kolko at a bris. Did Kolko take a beating or was it just some harmless shoving ?
Which idiot at the Agudah decided to give Margo a kibud at the Siyum Hashas ?
ReplyDeleteCome on Leopold, allow me to be menagen mit chazonnus for your grand exit from the scene.
Schmelzer,
ReplyDeleteThe only one that will soon be singing is Margo with his own version of Eicha. Yes sir, the Fat Lady, Margo will be the one singing lament on himself.
hey!
ReplyDeletenoone mentioned my name in the last 30 comments allready!
Am I a free man?
Shutup Leib, you fool. I told you to stop drawing attention to us. That guy Boogie Man warned that he's revealing more secrets next week.
ReplyDeleteBen Brafman hides behind "making parnossa" while he is mistakel every day in the faces of reshoyim gemurim. Margo fits right in with his line up of clients like Pinter, mafiosos, gangsta rappers and Kolko's pedophile comrade Michael Jackson. What's wrong with any other legal specialty that Brafman has to cavort with all the bottom feeders ?
ReplyDeleteBrafman who makes any decent person want to barf, writes on "morality" for the OU's Jewish Action magazine.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ou.org/pdf/ja/5766/winter66/Rope.pdf
Brafman & Associates, P.C.
Address: 26th Fl.
767 Third Ave.
New York, NY 10017-2023
Phone: (212) 750-7800
Fax: (212) 750-3906
Did you expect Margo do anything less than hire the best and most expensive lawyer around ?
ReplyDeleteMr. Brafman resides in Long Island, New York with his wife Lynda where they are active in Congregation Beth Sholom of Lawrence, The Kulanu Torah Academy, The Israel Cancer Research Foundation and a wide range of charitable and religious organizations both in the United States and Israel. The couple have two children and 8 grandchildren.
Mr. Brafman, a former Assistant District Attorney in the Rackets Bureau of the New York County District Attorney's Office, has been in private practice since 1980. He received his law degree from Ohio Northern University, in 1974, graduating with Distinction and serving as Manuscript Editor of The Law Review. He went on to earn a Masters of Law Degree (LL.M.) in Criminal Justice from New York University Law School. Mr. Brafman is a Fellow in the American College of Trial Lawyers and in 1997, was selected by New York Magazine as the "Best Criminal Defense Lawyer in New York." He was also the recipient of the "Outstanding Private Criminal Defense Practitioner Award" for 2005 from the New York State Bar Association.
Mr. Brafman is a frequent lecturer and panelist on criminal defense issues sponsored by the United States District Courts in New York; the Association of the Bar for the City of New York; the New York County Lawyers' Association and many other local and national criminal defense organizations.
http://www.aish.com/societyWork/work/Morality_in_the_Workplace.asp
ReplyDeleteIt's a Chutzpah with a Capital C that even Aish Hatorah reprinted this spin written by Brafman himself that defending rotzchim is somehow a "kiddush Hashem"
Money really does talk.
http://www.bethsholom.info/id15.html
ReplyDeleteBrafman's rov is Kenneth Hain, a big shot at the RCA who acted very forcefully against Tendler's sexual escapades. People should speak to Rabbi Hain. Will he do the right thing and use his sway over Brafman or is he quiet when it comes to a rich and powerful congregant ?
More Brafman clients here that Margo will meet at the next Sunday BarBQ for Ben's lowlife club.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/business/19legal.html?ei=5094&en=287e588955b4940c&hp=&ex=1148097600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print
May 19, 2006
U.S. Indictment for Big Law Firm in Class Actions
By JULIE CRESWELL
The nation's leading class-action securities law firm, Milberg Weiss Bershad & Schulman, and two of its partners were charged yesterday with making more than $11 million in secret payments to three individuals who served as plaintiffs in more than 150 lawsuits.
The indictment is the first instance of a law firm with national reach facing criminal charges, and it could prove to be a fatal blow for the firm. The lawsuits cited in the indictment spanned two decades, occurring as recently as 2005, and generated some $216 million in legal fees for the firm.
Its lucrative business made Milberg Weiss a target for political critics who saw the firm as a symbol of a national litigation industry that had gone out of control. These critics said that many of the firm's lawsuits against corporations were frivolous, raising the cost of doing business.
The critics contended that investors, for the most part, saw only pennies on the dollar from any recoveries won by the firm. In the 1990's, Congress raised the legal hurdle for such lawsuits in large part in response to Milberg Weiss. Even so, the firm continued to thrive.
In the 20-count indictment by a federal grand jury in Los Angeles yesterday, Milberg Weiss and two of its prominent partners, David J. Bershad and Steven G. Schulman, are accused of racketeering conspiracy, mail fraud, money laundering conspiracy and obstruction of justice.
Ruach Chaim is already at the bottom of the hill. I keep getting calls from anxious parents if I'm sending my son back next year. Most classes have between 5 and 8 kids registered for next year and so far 4 rebbeim have accepted positions in other yeshivas, and 2 more are waiting for answers. The joke is on Klor, because they all keep telling him they are coming back because otherwise they won't get paid up until the end of the year. June 30th Klor is going to start scrambling to look for rebbeim because that's when he is going to find out that only Rabbi Estreicher is coming back.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the journal ad blanks that just went out, what a joke to send this out in the last month of the year. I guess they couldn't get anyone to agree to be honored. Are we going to get the jounals mailed to us next year by pesach like we did this year. I think everyone should put in their ad in honor of Rabbi Sabo, or maybe l'zecher nishmas yeshiva ruach chaim a"h.
Who are you guys kidding? Do you think I would turn down anyone as immoral as Margulies if he gave me the biggest retainer on record?
ReplyDeleteBarry Slotnick lives in Scarsdale, New York, which is almost as good as Lawrence, New York.
ReplyDeleteUOJ has a plaque from and appears to be everywhere.
He does not need a higher credit line. Don't give him too much credit.
Don't give the Agudah too much credit either.
OK guys, here's Ben's email.
ReplyDeleteFire away at will.
Benjamin Brafman
Email: bbrafman@braflaw.com
To Renreb:
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your powerful and stirring words. Your emotions mirror those that I was feeling before I decided to call Torah Temimah and express my ourage and demand that R. Margulies terminate the employment of R. Kolko immediately. Unfortunately, I was the only parent who called the Yeshiva to complain.
EG
I just gave a few tips to Margo on how to run the yeshiva like a real dictator. Any boy overheard talking about UOJ, NY Magazine or Batei dinim is to be slapped across the face and transported by official yeshiva vehicle to Kolko's house, where Yudi can keep molesting in exile.
ReplyDeleteWell, there's just been a statement issued giving some attempt to clear R. Scheinberg. Granted, it's issued from Rabbi Ginzberg (his host for the weekend), and is typically vague, at least it's something.
ReplyDeleteHere goes:
Dear Community Members:
Over the last few days, a number of people have brought to my
attention an article from a secular publication asserting that a
world-renowned Rosh Hayeshiva issued a halachic ruling regarding child
molestation. This alleged ruling – through this publication – has
resulted in widespread Chilul Hashem and gross misrepresentation of
clear and indisputable Halacha.
The purpose of this letter is not to address the context of the quote,
the alleged ruling in question or the specifics of the primary
accusations made in the article. This letter is about clarifying the
position of halacha with regard to child abuse, to the extent that
position has been clouded by these recent events. Moreover, this
letter is about urgently disseminating essential halachic facts which
-- hopefully -- will serve to mitigate the potential damage and
destruction caused by this mischaracterization.
It is incumbent upon all Rabbonim worldwide to unite and unequivocally
declare that Orthodox Judaism absolutely forbids child abuse of any
kind – sexual and non-sexual. And, as with any other allegation of
halachic wrongdoing, the appropriate testimony must be given, and the
appropriate proceedings must be convened, in order to establish the
truth of any accusations.
Allow me to be among the first to make this declaration, and I speak
not only for myself but also for the Rosh Hayeshiva named in this
publication, with whom I have consulted:
Sexually abusing a child in any form is a flagrant violation of our
Torah. Halacha absolutely prohibits any and all such conduct. No
"benchmark" exists to qualify a sexually motivated act as child
molestation, and there are no "technical defenses" to justify child
abuse. To be crystal clear: the touching of a child in a sexual manner
is utterly forbidden by our Torah and by our mesorah.
It is my hope and prayer that this letter will serve to clarify any
confusion about the Torah view on these very serious issues.
Obviously, this is not a scholarly letter or article -- now is not the
time for Talmudic sources, lengthy discussions or intellectual
debates. It is simply the time to set the record straight – solely for
the purpose of abruptly ending the Chilul Shaim Shomayim facilitated
by the dissemination of the supposed Torah viewpoint reported in the
article.
Child abuse is forbidden. An issue this easy does not need further
clarification. It is my sincere hope that, in consultation with other
Rabbonim in our community, we can collectively and effectively
formulate appropriate strategies to ensure that the issue of child
abuse is dealt with appropriately, proactively and swiftly in our
community and beyond.
Good Shabbos.
Rabbi Aryeh Ginzberg
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0605/S00035.htm
ReplyDeleteIs this Rav Scheinberg's brother or nephew ? I hope he's not on Jack Abramoff's pay schedule too. It's a big enough chilul H already with Lapin and the Pinter clan being combed over by the FBI and Senate investigators.
Who needs a job at the yeshiva when I can now prey on innocent little morsels at Weinfeld's shul or in the neighborhood ? If I get tipped off by Agudah sources close to Hynes that an indictment is coming, I've got a whole country full of fresh little meat pieces when I escape to Israel.
ReplyDeleteYidi,
ReplyDeleteI vill give you a list of mishpuches dat pulled der kids out of TT to move to Eretz Yisruel. You ken start molesting dem first.
Esteemed UOJ;
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you.
Rabbi Ginzberg's self-serving polemic is a total waste of time, vacuous, and just more of the same tired BS and here's why.
We all know the halacha regarding this issue of child sex molestation and abuse which makes the cover-up and thus enabling of koko's activities by aforesaid rabbonim, lo these many years, all the more egregious and reprehensible.
Rabbi Ginzberg, do you want to truly effectuate meaningful change or just utter touchy-feely empty platitudes?
If the former, then see to it for starters, that the Agudah and Torah Umesorah co-operate with and get behind Elliot Pasik's efforts to have meaningful legislation passed by the NYS legislature and a registry set up by and for all of our Mosdos.
Mr Pasik is fighting valiantly but being stonewalled at every turn by your Chosuve rabbonim colleagues. Why? What are you afraid of?
You Rabbonim are extremely adept at talking the talk, but don't walk the walk.
The bottom line fact of the matter is that if not for the herculean (or should I say Samsonian) efforts of UOJ over the past year, who knows Rachmana Litlan, how many more Yiddeshe Tyreh Kinder would have been molested?
Now that the road has been cleared and paved, you and your colleagues should come out of the bunkers and back up your talk with action.
We'll be watching.
Boog,
ReplyDeleteThe Ginsburg comment was not put up by me.
I decided to let people put up their stuff to get a view of how the "other guys" are going to spin this.
No lawsuit today? Aw shucks, I was hoping?
ReplyDeleteUOJ,
ReplyDeleteVery disappointed that you have not commended Ginzberg on his courage. No, he didn't say anything we didn't already know. Buy yes, he finally cleared up this whole mess publicly about whether Rav Sheinberg condones child molesting. Your comment above is EXTREMELY hypocritical. By your own admission, you were always willing to give Rabbonim a chance. Unfortuneately, Kolko, Margo and others ignored you. Rabbi Ginzberg never ignored you and all you've ever heard from him was an attempt to take things in a positive direction. Boog is a jackass, and everything until his last line is pointless drivel. But his point at the end makes sense: Let's wait and see.
I thought more of you before this. Why don't you applaud someone for once for making a statement about what he knows about. A guy living in Woodmere has no right to comment on child molestors who he doesn't know, and thankkfully, his statement did not addtress that. Again, let's wait and see if he backs up his moving forward statements with anything. Not "Boog-style," of course. All that moron wants to see is a Rabbi make a statment that Kolko and Margo are guilty and see these guys eaten alive. Me too, but I have no first-hand knowledge of their guilt (although I think they're guilty), and R Ginzberg certainly has no knoweldge of their guilt. Climb back into your cave.
Can we please have some consistency, UOJ? I'm a big fan, but you're quickly losing credibility.
Is there a rebbe/molester on the Lower East Side?
ReplyDeleteI am not a fan of some of his posts but Boog gets it exactly right on this one. Because I decided to go into a profession after yeshiva, I am not a voice to be reckoned with on these matters, but I must say I am completely appalled that the leadership has none less than nothing to protect our children from the beasts that are lurking out there.
ReplyDeleteI say shame on you to the Agudas Yisroel, Torah Umesorah and anyone else who had the opportunity to act but sat there in a catatonic stupor.
If you continue in this vein, you will cause irreparable harm to the entire klal, the likes of which turns me pale from fright.
Wasn't there a rebbe/molester in Toronto?
ReplyDeleteI do not see how legislation will protect children. What really has to happen is for a change in attitude on the part of the people who run the schools and the parents who send children to the schools. We need to have accountability and frank and open communication without fear of reprisal.It slices both ways as well. In addition to holding mechanchim accountable for their professional conduct, we also need to hold parents and the commnuity accountable for supporting the mosdos. Perhaps it should not be considered appropriate to go to a hotel for pesach when there are yeshivas struggling to meet payroll and parents struggling to pay tuition. Perhaps we all need to reexamine our priorities.
ReplyDeleteIt was clear from R' Ginzburg's alleged statements that he is chiefly concerned with protecting Ultra-Orthodoxy's public image. Protecting does not seem to be the gist of his statement.
ReplyDeleteUOJ, I'm surprised as well. We finally have a Rav with the courage to speak out publicly to condemn abuse and also to strike down the supposed RS psak and you respond with the same knee-jerk-ism you have railed about from the yeshivas. Is the letter perfect? Maybe not but it's a darn good start and this lone voice among rabbanim should be given some credit. You were courageous to bring the issue to the forefront of our community. Please recognize the courage of this Rav, who at this hour still stands completely alone in his remarks on the issue. I hope you will respond with a more considered take on the letter, not by picking it apart because it lacks this or that point, but by commending a Rav for finally joining you in your important work.
ReplyDelete*Protecting children does not seem to be...
ReplyDeleteHeshy Nussbaum,
ReplyDeleteHow's your van doing? The one with the sleeping bags in the back.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteCommend Ginsburg for what? That it's assur to molest kids and Scheinberg agrees?
How about "I spoke to Scheinberg and he swore to me that he never got involved to disrupt an ongoing bais din"?
How about calling a meeting at Ginzburg's house with Scheinberg there for breakfast, meeting with the various people that were contacted by Scheinberg and told directly by Scheinberg the very stuff he now denies.
More doublespeak????
Let's get this out in the open...let the victims and their parents be able to confront Scheinberg in an open forum!!!!
Enough already...have we not learned that the days of cover-up of a cover-up are over???
Scheinberg is as guilty as HELL..I'm sick and tired of the BS SPIN...Scheinberg is a monster!
Ginzburg should really be careful about issuing statements that degrade us any more.
"UOJ, I'm surprised as well. We finally have a Rav with the courage to speak out publicly to condemn abuse and also to strike down the supposed RS psak and you respond with the same knee-jerk-ism you have railed about from the yeshivas. "
ReplyDeleteHave you read the letter?? All it does is reiterate what everyone, including Margo and UOJ agree too. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is what Rabbi Sheinberg told the accusers. This issue is not addressed by the letter.
UOJ;
ReplyDeleteMy sincere apology.
anon;
Hit a nerve, did I! You can call me "jackass" till the cows come home.
You are an excellent candidate for the reading comprehension class being given at Machon L'Paranassa in Boro Park.
What I have been saying and is crystal clear to all, regards to the ostrichitis, obfuscation, neglect, and stonewalling by our Leaders and organizations on this issue.
Do you deny it?
BTW;
What do you mean by "pointless drivel"?
Is there such a thing as 'meaningful drivel'?
YOU should stop issuing statements that degrade us even more, UOJ. You had momentum. Now you're showing the world that you're just like the Boog's of the world. Not willing to give anyone a chance. He was approached by HIS COMMUNITY AND SHUL about these Rav Sheinberg statements, and he responded publicly because this was being said publicly. I agree -- a meeting should be set up and more clarification is warranted. He purposely avoided the issue because he was not ready to make a statement about that yet. I know, UOJ, it took YOU 9 months to get the first lawsuit out, but you expect Ginzberg to finish his entire investigation in less than a week???
ReplyDeleteGinzburg is a behind the scenes guy who only steps up publicly when something desperately needs to be said. Trust me, if and when he concludes there was a cover up, he will make a public statement about that as well. UOJ -- I'll get you a meeting with Ginzberg and Sheinberg. Sorry, I forgot, you're a f***ing coward.
These guys are guilty, and everyone knows it. UOJ got us to this point, but I think it's time this piece of sh*t packs up his bags and hands this over to someone who thinks with his head instead of emotion.
So clever, Boog. So Ginsberg didn't say exactly what you wanted him to say. At least you have a forum on this blog where people like you can be applauded and heard. Because in the real world, no one is obligated -- IN 5 DAYS --to conclude that 25 years of stonewalling existed. No, I don't deny it. I have no clue what happened in the halls of torah temimah or Sheinberg's yeshiva. And neither does Ginsberg. And he's not going to throw his 93 old RY to the wolves because Boog wants him to. He'll look into it and then you'll go ask him. Like a man.
ReplyDeleteAnd finally, Boog, yes, I am unemployed and really take offense to your remarks. I hope Shaindy, Yossi, Yanky, Perel, Moishie, Rochel and Tzvi don't print this and bring it to the Shabbos table tonight. We don't have food -- all we have his conversation. Thanks for the reminder. Can you send me the number to that agency you referenced?
Anon,
ReplyDeleteWhat the HELL did you expect him to say , that the Torah permits child molestation???
Your a card-carrying Borsalino lunatic!
By the way what is our Toronto Rebbe/Molester doing these days?
ReplyDeleteRav Ginzberg deserves credit for unequivocally setting the Halacha clear on child abuse. However, he is also speaking in Rabbi Scheinberg's name which means that he is using this forum as a means to clear Rabbi Scheinberg. Has he first spoken to a single victim to find out if, indeed, Rabbi Scheinberg, behaved as the article alleges he did?
ReplyDeleteHad Rav Ginzberg kept Rabbi Scheinberg's name out of the discussion and focused strictly on the Torah's view on child abuse, I would agree with ANON. However, it seems obvious that Rabbi Ginzberg cleverly used the opportunity to vindicate Rav Scheinberg.
Um, no, UOJ. Me, like you, expected him to say NOTHING. You want silence. You want to be able to say that no one addressed this. NOW YOU HAVE DIALOGUE AND IT"S KILLING YOU. A Rabbi willing to have dialogue with the likes of the scum of the earth? Are you sinking, UOJ? I hope you're ego doesn't get in the way of putting Kolko and Margo in prison.
ReplyDeleteHAVE DIALOGUE WITH RABBI GINSBERG. HE MADE A VERY POSITIVE FIRST MOVE BY EVEN COMMENTING ON THIS ISSUE. NOW GET YOURSELF OFF YOUR ASS AND CALL HIM.
Is Monsey pedophile-free?
ReplyDeletekoko/margo is just the latest on the sex abuse hit parade. What about the previous Hall of Shamers like Mondrowitz who got away literally and figuratively with their sickness because your rabbonim were going to "look into it". All of the denials, etc. that cowed the victims into submissive silence?
ReplyDeleteI don't know how to say this in your preferred Oxfordian English, so I'll be blunt, anon,
You're full of shit.
Cleverly used the opportunity to vindicate Sheinberg? Huh??? Sheinberg's statements were the one on the record embarrasing orthodox judaism. He cleared that up. At the same time, he's involving himself with the actual case to the extent he can. If he's stonewalled, you'll get another letter stating that. One step at a time, people. Many sensibel people were just beginning to agree with you guys -- why kill it now?
ReplyDeleteI love it. Thanks for backing down, Boog. You lost on your first point, so now you're going back to the previous scandals. You backed down way too easily.
ReplyDeleteAny seminars in debating at that place? You and me can go, babe, you'll make me look good and maybe I'll get a job at Kosher Delight.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI intend to call him...as the previous Anon said; if he would have left Sheinberg's name out, I would say it's a good first step. Much better than Shmuel Kaminetzky and Co.
You can't stick in Sheinberg's name without speaking to the 23 people I spoke to about Sheinberg's role in the previous kangaroo bais din.
SHEINBERG IS A MONSTER!!!!!
Holy mackerel! I didn't know so many people in Toronto are following this too! I was just curious because I know all about Margo from Temimah guys in camp. The problem with abuse cases in Canada is that the police are too polite and slow. They interview people too many times and kack around. There were 2 abusers in the Bobover cheder who took off back to New York after they were questioned by the cops. Who knows what yeshiva they are trolling now.
ReplyDeleteAnd, as with any other allegation of
ReplyDeletehalachic wrongdoing, the appropriate testimony must be given, and the
appropriate proceedings must be convened, in order to establish the
truth of any accusations.
===========================
THIS IS THE SOLE POINT OF THE LETTER! IN SCHEINBERG'S PERVERSE OPINION, THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE OF KOLKO'S GUILT. PERHAPS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SEE THE ABUSE HIMSELF, OR BECAUSE OF A LACK OF TWO AIDIM AND A HASRAHA. SCHEINBERG'S PERVERSION OF OUR TORAH RESULTED IN THE DESTRUCTION OF MANY MANY LIVES AFTER HE WAS HIRED BY MARGULIES TO INTERFERE WITH JUSTICE IN THE 80'S.
Shmuel Kaminetzky will be in Lawrence Sunday morning at Shimon Pluchenik's house.
ReplyDeleteI URGE EVERYONE THAT CAN MAKE IT TO BE THERE AT 9 A.M., NO NOT TO DONATE TO PHILLY, BUT TO ASK HIM WHY HE HAS NOT CONDEMNED THE YTT GANGSTERS! WHY THE SILENCE???????
TO Anon: Read Rabbi Ginzberg's statement and you will see how he "cleverly vindicated Rabbi Scheinberg."
ReplyDelete"Allow me to be among the first to make this declaration, and I speak
not only for myself but also for the Rosh Hayeshiva named in this
publication, with whom I have consulted:"
That says it all!
Thank you, UOJ. I'm beginning to regain a little respect for you. I appreciate the fact that you are capable of seeing some good in what Rabbi G did here. As for R'Sheinberg, all I can say is that he's Rabbi Ginzberg's rebbe and guest. Trust me, Ginzberg will go after him if he's wrong, but you can't blame him for attempting to clear his name (and the name of all of us for being part of this religion) by at least saying what he could say at this point.
ReplyDeleteI thought that letter was clear on this and you guys are having a knee-jerk reaction. Sit back and reflect on this for a few minutes and you;ll see that if you're really trying to accomplish what you claim, this is a HUGE step in the right direction.
Rabbi Ginzberg cleverly used the opportunity to vindicate Rav Scheinberg...
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, it is quite reasonable to assume that R' Ginzburg was compelled to make a statement so that he should not be associated with R' Scheinberg's statement. Once he had the floor, he figured he may as well deny the statment itself.
UOJ, Re: the person who offered to " get you a meeting w/ R' Scheinberg.."
DON'T DO IT! It's a ploy to get you to donate to Torah Ohr. You know what it required for a visit to R' $cheinberg...
No more comment moderation???
ReplyDeleteAfter mulling this over a bit more, I would have to at least give R' Ginzburg credit for making any statement. Whatever the motive might have been. Nice going.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Gross. Not for your statement necessarily (although I agree), but for at least thinking about it first.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Boogster, take a look at this fraud. We really need to expose this guy. Below is a quote from THIS VERY BLOG. Admittedly, I excerpted portions and Boog might say that his "100%" was referring to other portions of Parent 54's statement. But that would sound like double-talk and stonewalling -- and we don't tolerate that here. Get lost, BOOG. You're making UOJ look bad. Keep going, UOJ, you're on the right track and have some good people behind you now.
________________________________
Modern Orthodox Parent 54 said...
I am very embarrassed by Rav Pinchas Scheinberg. For whatever motive, to say it is not actionable because there was no penetration is woefully sick, I don't care if the Gadol is 93 or 193. He has young m'shorsim who should be able to advise and explain to him what is going on. NOTHING MAKES THE TORAH LOOK MORE FOOLISH THAN HIS STATEMENTS. He has brought a great Chilul Hashem on our community by saying what he did.
AND THE BOOG SAYS........
________________________________
boog said...
modern orthodox parent 54;
Eloquently said and I agree 100% with everything you've said.
The "enablers" have much to answer for and have Jewish Blood on their hands.
Our "Leaders" are a total unmitigated disgrace. To tell the victims that there is nothing actionable because there was no penetration is unfathomable. What about Tzar, Boshes?
Boog, you're the disgrace. Everyone knows molestation is not permitted. Why did Ginzberg need to make a statement?? Open your eyes, man, the criticism of this very point was rampant. This was the easiest allegation to quash. A softball. Bit NOT ONE PERSON STEPPED UP TO KNOCK IT OUR OF THE PARK. That all changes today. Ginzberg homered.
Now let's hope he not a one-hit wonder.
We are in deep trouble.
anon
ReplyDeleteYou're right.
Kosher Delight suits you to a T.
Shabbat Shalom.
Quick perspective comment here:
ReplyDeleteR. Scheinberg is a guest at R. Ginzburg's shul this Shabbos. There are a world of rumours out there, and a statement in NY Mag directly implicated R. Scheinberg. Was this statement meant to be an absolute issue-exhausting explanation that came after a huge investigation? Of course not. R. Ginzburg sent a message out to members of HIS community, who are most likely to be in direct contact over this weekend, denying one of the more shocking and offensive statements in the article (the idea that R. Scheinberg would have made such a psak). As such, it is a START.
This is not R. Ginzburg coming in and making himself a central figure in the ongoing controversy.
It's not an utter clarification of everything that went on in the past.
It is simply a quick attempt to ease the situation in his home for the weekend. Is it heroic? Hardly. However, it certainly isn't an example of demonically sweeping a major issue under the rug. The fact that he (claims, at least) to have discussed this issue with the man himself prior to issuing this letter is impressive. I'd rather that than have a bunch of kanoyim making knee-jerk denials without putting it in front of the implicated man.
It could have been worse. They could have ignored (or attempted to ignore) the issue altogether. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened in the community.
The big question? What happens next. Do they leave it at this or do they come out with a more formal and complete investigation and response. That's what I'm waiting for.
you all miss the point. Ginzburg said "appropriate testimony must be given". Because the molester won't testify against himself and the child according to R' Scheinberg is not a good witness, although "child abuse" is aaur it can never be proven without adult witnesses.
ReplyDeleteThis (in part)is what R' Scheinberg is alleged to have done to protect Kolko and Margulies and Ginzburg not only does not back away from that untenable stance he endorses it and cleverly sets it up as a defense of his RY.
He is part of the coverup, not the solution.
Re: Are we going to start outing every yid in BP and flatbush who masturbates, watches porn, gambles, drinks like a shikkur, smoke pot?
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, the Torah does not give someone who does these aforementioned sins meesah. However someone who is homosexual is actually mechuiv meesah.
Renreb: Love the part where you shoot out his knee caps just to let him know you are going to kill him and than just continue with the torture session. Oh sorry that's my dream. Oh well, your letter was great. I just printed it out to bring to my Monsey Shul.
Lippy was single when he was my Rebbe in 6th grade. He was single thru out my stay in Ma Na Vu. I always wondered why. Now my second grade Rebbe, YK, is molestiing little boys while married with children, I undrstand why Lippy finally got married. It apparently does not mean anything to these guys, the wife that is, it's all for show.
"boog said...
ReplyDeleteanon;
quit while you're behind."
And then...
"Shabbat Shalom."
Thanks for taking your own advice. Don't expect those extra pickles and onions on your deluxe next time you come in.
Quick Perspective Anon:
Well said. Let's not pass judgment on anyone yet. Let's take UOJ's advice and give this "new guy on the scene" a chance to produce. He obviously has a direct line to Rav Sheinberg and has also clarified the biggest Chilul Hashem that's been PROVEN so far. Yes, all the other stuff is a chilul hashem as well -- but that's only if all the Gedolim knew about it and remain silent.
What we do know FOR A FACT is that a ruling was published that made every single yarmulke-wearing person look like a fool. The fact that UOJ and Boog already knew that halacha forbids this is absolutely and etnirely irrelevant. The world needed to know. And even if you say the world already knew, it's nice to see it writing. Kaulker could have said that Sheinberg's psak obviously wasn't true because "everyone knew it." "Everyone" didn't know it. The world extends beyond the blogsphere. Open your eyes.
UOJ --
My apologies for getting aggressive with you today. Please keep this up. But please do not misdirect your understandable and righteous anger toward those who do not deserve it.
Yet.
In single handed fashion (or according to some, no hands) Kolko has been meakeiv the geulah for every yid reading this blog, and every yid in the world period. Forget your davening, your schuckling, your daf, whatever - no way we see the geulah in this lifetime having allowed for DOROS the destruction of our children by a deviant sex fiend and his pimp.
ReplyDeleteHow did we become so busy pushing all this hashkofa, all this bein odom lmakom, that we became utterly impotent at espousing bein odom lchaveiro? I would like someone to tell me.
To any rebbe reading this, you damn well better screw your head on straight and make sure your talmidim understand that respect for others, hakoras hatov, ahavta lreiachah kamocha, comes before shachris, before you put on your tefillin, before you open a gemara.
Thanks Yidi for screwing not only any hairless male you could get your grubby hands and dirty member on, but for making sure I will not see mashiach in this lifetime. For that I hope every drop of learning you did, every dollar of tzedaka you offered, every letter of every word you mumbled in tefila will bear witness against you in shomayim to insure that your neshoma suffers mida kneged mida the way your victims suffered.
correct, anon; on your statement.
ReplyDelete"The fact that UOJ and Boog already knew that halacha forbids this is absolutely and etnirely irrelevant."
Point is that Organizations and rabbonim were apprised of abuse cases and allegations for years and years and did nothing.
That is relevant and you're sidesteping it with non-sequiters.
The media is eating the Orthodox alive. Any word on Ryan Karben?
ReplyDeleteIf Rav Scheinberg said ktanim can't give eidus, it's a moot point now. Most of Kolko's victims are adults now.
ReplyDeleteTo "You all miss the point" Anon:
ReplyDeleteIn theory, I agree with you. To absolve a child molestor on grounds of "too young to be a witness" when there's OVERWHELMING evidence to convict, is absurd.
And I'm sure Ginzberg was not talking about those instances. Ginzberg needs to protect those who are falsely accused (generally). Can you not admit that just like many Rabbi child-molestors have been in our midst for years, there have also been falsely accused good, halacha abiding Rabbonim?
They also need to be protected somehow and not allow an accused person to be convicted in the media. That was his point. He CLEARLY said he WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS CASE and, if the facts are that overwhelming (or even something more than suspicions) evidence 12-year old evidence existed of these terrible acts and, in response, Sheinberg said "can't do anything - they're all under 12," then YOU ARE, as Boog would say "100%" correct.
You and I know that, today, there's an abundance of evidence against these "evildoers."
But let's wait and see what Sheinberg said and didn't say and let's get a little context. Let's wait for letter #2.
So Relax, everyone, and pat yourselves on the back for a job well done to finally have dialogue with a Rov who is close to Rav Sheinberg.
This is something you NEVER thought would happen, and now it did. Stop losing your credibility, and give Ginzberg credit for what he did today. Otherwise, you'll just give him the impression that you're a bunch of bullies not looking for the truth, and he will not continue to communicate on this issue.
Unless, of course, that's your goal. I truly hope it isn't. Your goal should be to hang child molestors and protect future generations of children. Stay focused.
Boog,
ReplyDeleteI'm not "side-stepping." You just want leaps. I'm taking small steps. Unfortunately, and as UOJ knows, in order to get these guys, it will be a marathon. If we need to take baby steps to get there, fine. A little patience, Boog. I know your mouth is watering for the sino steak, but sit your ass down and munch on some fries for a while. When all is said and done, we'll all fo to Prime Grill.
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/63931.htm
ReplyDeleteMay 19, 2006 -- ALBANY - Two-term Rockland County Assemblyman Ryan Karben, a rising star in state Democratic politics, abruptly resigned yesterday amid what sources said were allegations of improper sexual approaches to young male Assembly interns.
Karben's sudden and unexpected midyear departure shocked many of his fellow lawmakers, but several others - claiming that Karben was under investigation for some time for the alleged improper contacts - said they were not surprised.
A high-ranking Assembly official said he was told Monday by a senior aide to Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver that Karben, who is widely known for frequenting Albany's active night life, "had problems" because of recent allegations that the lawmaker made "unwanted advances" to male interns.
A second source, a high-ranking Democratic assemblyman, said he had received the same information.
"I know for a fact that the allegations have been made," said the Assembly member.
Karben, 31, an Orthodox Jew who is married to his high-school sweetheart and has three young daughters, was widely touted as a strong future candidate for higher office.
He could not be reached for comment yesterday. He was not at his Assembly offices in Albany or Pearl River, his private law office, or his home in Monsey.
http://www.canonist.com/?p=809
Interestingly, like Mordecai Tendler, Karben was an advocate for the kinds of issues you’d think might preclude him from this behavior:
The politician, whose 95th District covered all of Orangetown and part of Ramapo, pushed for tougher sex-offender tracking laws and environmental cleanups at several sites in Rockland.
Bull!!
ReplyDeleteLet's hear the tzitzis nut explain himself.
Unlikely,he's probably off somewhere with his gangster relatives selling brochas to the oilam goilam
Hmmm. Was there a cover up in Bobov Toronto? The executive "dreck"ter comes from the "All-Star" line up in Frankel's Shul.
ReplyDeletelips geldwirth better stop sticking up for this monster.
ReplyDeleteits pissing me off
HOW ABOUT A MAILING TO GELWIRTH SHUL?
ReplyDeleteUOJ, CAN YOU HELP WITH THE MAILING?
I know people who pulled their kids out of Bobov. One rebbe was a sexual deviant. The other rebbe was a violent nut who threw a kid out an upper floor window into the asphalt lot, almost killing him.
ReplyDeleteHeshy Nussbaum was later working as a mashgiach for the COR. They had him running around to ungevarfena shtetlach so I guess he was getting a lot of mileage out of the van # cough #. If there was anything to it, I don't understand how the Vaad harabonim of Toronto hired this guy. You glassy eyed scandal guys will have a ball with this because Leib Pinter's mechitan is a big shot on the vaad. Unbelievable how all these stories are connected.
speak to me. I can assist you with the mailing. i also daven at weinfeld and gelwarth's shul.
ReplyDeleteGeldwirth is defending Margulies and Kolko for a very good reason. Self preservation. If he was smart he would have stayed very far away from this mess. He must have the same advisor as Margulies and Kolko.
ReplyDeleteLipa, get on the phone and start begging forgiveness for your actions. It's not too late. It will be soon.
What are you smoking? We need protection from actual molestors. Alleged molestors don't need protection from us. We are apparently a bunch of toothless phonies.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, R Ginzberg wasn't putting up defensese for mechanchim who were wrongfully accused because they don't need a defense when no one is on the offense.
well what is geldweth's past?
ReplyDeleteyeah yeah....good old lippy! making stupid decisions again.
ReplyDeletewell you'll learn soon.
I share the same eagerness as Boog in his demand of "instant" results and public rabbinic outrage. Rabbonim have had ample time to address these issues. One can't help but suspect ulterior motives when only AFTER this case garnered prominent secular attention, a lone rabbi or two opened his mouth.
ReplyDeleteBoog and other "regulars" here has been "active on the case" for a long time and it's a little different when one is a "johnny-come-lately" and has all the time in the world for rabbis to scratch their heads and issue carefully-prepared, pareve statements.
Am I making sense? If not, you can blame the 3 hours of sleep I got last night.
The below is a direct quote from Pinchus Scheinberg:
ReplyDelete"without the testimony of two kosher aidim (adult male witnesses) there is no basis for the accusations against Kolko"
This was his outspoken position in the 1980's when he was retained by Margulies to interfere with Kolko's victims and their supporters.
Fact: There is no Halachic basis for Scheinberg's perversion of Halacha. There are clear Halachas that govern the rules of evidence when the situation calls for testimony from lone individuals, women and children the sum and substance of which are that when an incident, by its very nature, would have only one witness the testimony of that one witness is accepted.
Scheinberg's vile manipulation of clear Halach caused the destruction of numerous young lives.
No half baked letter from Rabbi Ginzgberg can change that.
Ryan Karben's mother is an officer of the shul that kicked out Tendler. She was fighting around with him and Tendler is trying to sue her.
ReplyDeleteTo that anonymous idiot who thinks we should ban Pesach hotels to pay for yeshiva budget gaps. You sneaky little moron. You start talking about protecting children from abuse and then you try to slide that speech in. Are you Simcha Klor laying the groundwork for a new shnorring campaign ? People who work hard and make an honest living have a right to spend money. We don't work so you family empires who line your pockets from the yeshiva piggy bank can then come knocking for handouts.
ReplyDeleteIf there's an issue about Pesach hotels, speak to Rabbi Ginzberg. He was scholar in residence at hotel with kashrus that's worth crap. I don't know if he doesn't have a clue or if he just doesn't care because they gave him a free stay at a luxury resort. Unless he or someone else intervened with a different set of mashgichim than usual, I hope he didn't eat any treif or chometz.
HOW ABOUT A MAILING TO GELWIRTH SHUL?
ReplyDeleteUOJ, CAN YOU HELP WITH THE MAILING?
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A Claap on the Bima out to do the trick.
IS THIS TRUE AND CAN ANYONE VERIFY THIS?
ReplyDeleteThe granddaughters of rabbi Moshe Feinstein (the girls were first cousins with rabbis Mordecai and Aron Tendler) appeared in Penthouse circa 1983. It was a big scandal that was hushed up in the Orthodox world.
Their mother is sister to Mrs Tendler – mother of Mordechai and Aron.
They posed after their father died.
The common factor, I've found, in girls who decide to do this sort of thing is the lack of good father in their life. Girls who have that are rarely promiscuous, in my opinion.
The girls are now around 50 years of age.
http://www.ryankarben.com/ryan_issue.htm#crime
ReplyDelete“Serial sexual predators must stay away from our kids. That’s why I voted to keep sex offenders away from schools and to toughen penalties for repeat offenders who prey on our children.”
Stopping Video Voyeurs
Assemblyman Ryan Scott Karben sponsored legislation outlawing high-tech peeping toms from exploiting unwitting victims (Ch. 69 of 2003). Assemblyman Karben also supported a bill to protect stalking victims by placing an order of condition on any defendant who is found not responsible by reason of mental disease or defect and released — forcing the perpetrator to stay away from their victim and the victim’s family (A.6895-A).
Protecting Our Children From Sexual Predators
Assemblyman Karben sponsored legislation requiring mandatory life sentence without parole for those who murder children under 14 while committing felony sex crimes (A.11557). And Assemblyman Karben strengthened the Sex Offender Registration Act by allowing courts to penalize criminals who fail to register (A.11522) and disclose the aliases of sex offenders who may be trying to hide their true identity (A.11523).
http://yutopia.yucs.org/archives/2006/05/open_thread_halakhic_whistleblowing_responsiblity.html
ReplyDeleteOpen Thread: Halakhic Whistleblowing Responsiblity
My previous post on Ryan Karben prompted an interesting conversation with someone who knew him from the YU days. According to this person, Karben's affinities were an "open secret" at YU and he personally knew people who had been propositioned by Karben.
We then discussed the question of if and when someone's tendencies should be "outed." If we are aware that someone is potentially dangerous, to what extent do we pursue this person or expose the risks of being involved with such a person.
On one hand, we do have the obligation of lo ta'amod 'al dam rei'echa and cannot sit idly by while people are being harmed. If we know that there is a risk in the community, can we risk doing nothing?
On the other hand, pursuing such people needs evidence and as the Gafni and Lanner cases have shown us, they might not do much good. Furthermore, there is always the risk of slander, which is prevalent enough as it is let alone being motivated by religious or political agendas.
I'm open to suggestions.
Update: In an IM, The Town Crier points to other recent examples of whistleblowing both good and bad, including Un-Orthodox Jew and the Kolko issue
The 2 girls who posed in Penthouse were daughters of Rav Schisgal, a tzaddik who was niftar at an early age. The story was no secret, as they were interviewed on the Bob Grant Show. Every baalabusta in NY called in to tell them off for shaming their zayde R' Moishe Feinstein. My guess is that they were perverted by their sex fiend cousins Mordy & Aron Tendler.
ReplyDeleteThese girls were very attractive but never got married.
HOW ABOUT A MAILING TO GELWIRTH SHUL?
ReplyDeleteUOJ, CAN YOU HELP WITH THE MAILING?
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A Claap on the Bima out to do the trick.
======================
A Claap on lippy's tushy should do the trick.
pull his underware daown and tell him who his daddy is. UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ! UOJ!
More Toronto abuse cases.
ReplyDeleteTosh cheder is closed for years now but they used to beat the living daylights out of the kids.
A previous menahel at Ner Yisroel mesivta has fits of rage and sometimes threw bochurim down the stairs. When the roshe yeshiva R' Gavriel came he pushed out the menahel who then became menahel of even younger kids at Eitz Chaim. This guy has Frankel's shul mechutonnim too and I think Pinter's eydim from Toronto is also working for Artscroll.
Where is Eliot Pasik?
ReplyDeleteIt is probably over 1000 now.
ReplyDeleteR2K