Saturday, June 04, 2011

Rabbinic Judaism Inc. - A Portable God for the World’s First Multinational Business!


Posted Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - The UOJ Archives - Click On Above Link to View The Comments Posted in 2005

Are You Better Off Today Than You Were 6 Years Ago?


Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (Phoenix Grant, 1987)
Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion (Pluto Press, 1994)
Dan Cohn-Sherbok, The Crucified Jew (Harper Collins,1992)
Henry Hart Milman, The History of the Jews (Everyman, 1939)
Josephus, The Jewish War (Penguin, 1959)
Leslie Houlden (Ed.), Judaism & Christianity (Routledge, 1988)
Karen Armstrong, A History of Jerusalem (Harper Collins, 1999))
Jonathan N. Tubb, Canaanites (British Museum Press, 1998)
Norman Cantor, The Sacred Chain - A History of the Jews (Harper Collins, 1994)

The Way of The Rabbi

Whatever daughter religions might spin off from old Judaism, the parent religion itself had inevitably to refashion itself for the new era. After the disaster of 135 AD, a number of Jews retreated into asceticism, banning meat and wine altogether, since sacrifice in the temple was no longer possible. Others lost themselves in mysticism, attempting to reach the ‘celestial throne’ via their imagination, the forerunners of the later ‘Kabala’.

But for all their suffering, most Jews were not ready to bastardise their traditional creed by infusing it with the dying godman mythology. The vacuum was filled by ‘Rabbinic Judaism’, the inheritor of the Pharisee tradition.

"The rabbis, a smallish group (perhaps a hundred or so in the whole Roman empire) of religious specialists descended from the Pharisees, gradually enhanced their status and developed a specifically Jewish way of arguing, which marked them off quite dramatically from both Christians and Romans." (Keith Hopkins, A World Full of Gods, p234)

In Palestine itself, where the Jews were now a minority, what remained of traditional Judaism turned inward. No longer could its priests use the ‘temple magic’ once used to summon divine favour, no longer could Judaism be proselytised.

The Rabbis became ‘clericalised’ – obsessed with cultic ‘rules’ as a practical substitute for the lost temple. They peopled the air itself with beneficent and malign spirits. A Jewish ‘code to live by’ - the Mitzvoth (the forerunner of ‘monastic rules’) detailed no fewer than 613 rules, governing every pious moment from waking to sleeping, to keep the Jew on the right side of an all-seeing God.

‘His rising from his bed, his manner of putting on the different articles of dress, the disposition of his fringed tallith, his phylacteries on his head and arms, his ablutions, his meals, even the calls of nature were subjected to scrupulous rules – both reminding him that he was of a peculiar race, and perpetually reducing him to ask the advice of the Wise Men, which alone could set at rest the trembling and scrupulous conscience.’ (Milman, History of the Jews, p165)

Within a few generations Judaism would be codified anew, into a portable (albeit confining) religion which could accompany and – fatally – identify this pseudo-race in their wanderings in the centuries ahead. By the close of the fifth century, the total population of Jews would be half of what it was at the beginning of the ‘Christian era’.(See, Cantor, ibid)

The Jewish people – dispersed but bonded by an exclusive faith, uniquely among ‘peoples’ – established enclaves in every major city from India to Spain, from Arabia to Britain. Capitalising upon this network of ‘safe havens’, and with a filial presence in every major resource, from African ivory to Germanic slaves, the Jews threw themselves into the commerce of the ancient world.

Jewish merchants traversed with impunity the hostile frontiers between Rome and Persia, sailed the sea lanes from the chilly rivers of Germany to the balmy seas off the Horn of Africa. The Jews became dealers in amber and fur, gold and silver, slave-traders and money-lenders.

But they were also dealers in superstition as well as produce:

‘The empire swarmed with Jewish wonder-workers, mathematicians, astrologers, or whatever other name or office they assumed or received from their trembling hearers.’ (Millman, History of the Jews, p158)

Levies on their new wealth paid for a programme of synagogue building, and in turn, the synagogues strengthened the bonds of the Jewish communities. Rarely assimilating into their host cultures, convinced they were especially favoured by the deity (and thus strengthened in their faith), the heady mix of piety and mercantilism rewarded the Jews with an unparalleled financial success – and an unequalled and universal opprobrium.


Anonymous said...

Where are you going with this?

The Thinking Jew said...

What the rabbis will never telll you is that in the perfect scenario, we all should be talmidei chachomim and be able to pasken for ourselves. But then, they will lose all of their relevance.... and chumros will go out the window!!!

Linda Walker/Child Protection Project said...

Kudos to you UOJ!


Child Protection Project is dedicated to raising awareness about issues of institutionalized child abuse. I am particularly interested in how institutions, especially churches, ignore child abuse reporting requirements; and thus cause unnecessary suffering and pain to children and families. Our religious institutions must be good corporate citizens because their mandate as tax-exempt beneficial, charitable organizations requires that children entrusted to their care be safe.

I started looking at the record within one church the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) for several reasons:

First, I hail from the background. And Mormons claim to be in the forefront, the vanguard, more dedicated to preserving family values than anyone else. Therefore, it is legitimate to look at the actual record.

Second, they spend an exorbitant amount of money on public relations campaigns that claim Mormons care for and properly provide for its children and family members. Why is this necessary? Do they have something to hide? It seems so. The earlier practice of polygamy encouraged child abuse and incest. A tenet of Mormonism still in effect is that "any man can espouse ten virgins…." (Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants).

Now as horrifying as the past record was it seems this earlier system continues to feed ideas in the modern Mormon community. This is an institution rife with child abuse including ritual abuse, incest, and hidden polygamy, a church unable to reconcile its past with its present, a church out of step with the values Americans hold dear. No other church in America suffers from this criminal background.

Third, this is a very wealthy organization, is politically active controlling an entire state, Utah, with extensive interests in other states. Gradually, I became aware that this institution uses its political and economic power to work against most of the goals I have worked for as a concerned citizen over the decades.

This started with their admonition that they wanted no conscientious objectors in their flock during the Vietnam War. I worked to stop that war. During the civil rights movement in the early 1960's this church was absent and maintained the racist doctrine that "blacks were not eligible to hold their priesthood". They changed that policy in 1974, long after citizens embraced civil rights. All through the sixties and beyond they were organizing John Birch Society cells at church sponsored Fireside meetings. The John Birch Society is an extremist group according to law enforcement. Mormons also fueled the survivalist groups and the revival of dangerous militias in the 1980's.

Fourth, as a descendant of early Mormon polygamy, I am shocked and dismayed by the racist, misogynist doctrine and the extensive human and civil rights abuses modern day polygamy foists upon its captive members and on society. I often think how close I came to a life in polygamy since my grandmother was born into it in 1901, long after a wise federal government had outlawed it. Taught as a child to be proud of the fact that my great grandfather was in Utah State Prison for continuing to practice his religious rights, polygamy; as an adult, I questioned these teachings and decided I am not proud of this ancestral extremism and current legacy.

Skver Mafia 5 said...

Lower Hudson Valley, lohud.com:

"Group of devotees enforces obedience to grand rebbe in New Square, residents say

12:38 AM, Jun. 5, 2011

NEW SQUARE — Residents who defy this Hasidic enclave's spiritual leader say they live in fear of a band of thugs who sometimes violently defend his edicts — and they cite a recent arson attack as the latest example of the group's work.

Described as "jihadis" by those who fear them and "hotheads" by some village leaders, the group numbers up to 40 men and boys between the ages of 15 and 35, current and former members of the community told The Journal News.

Ramapo police Sgt. John Lynch said he's aware of the allegations, but that detectives have no proof the young men operate as a unit or that they receive guidance from village leaders.

More than two dozen people spoke to the paper, most on condition they not be named, saying they feared retribution from group members and village leaders who shun mainstream media.

Shaul Spitzer, who is charged with attempted arson and attempted murder in the attack, showed up alone at Aron Rottenberg's house early May 22, according to police.

But locals say the teen is part of a network that defends Grand Rebbe David Twersky's rules with intimidation and violence, terrorizing anyone who would go against him.

"It's like a mafia," said a former yeshiva classmate of Spitzer's, who asked not to be identified. "They make the rebbe like a king and would kill themselves to save the rebbe. They're very dictating people, and they like the action. They act out just to show they own the community."

Spitzer, a cousin of the village's deputy mayor, followed all the rules of New Square and earned the respect of the Skverer Hasidim's spiritual leader, who took the 18-year-old into his home as a live-in assistant.

The classmate, who asked to be driven outside of New Square for an interview, said Spitzer had been a happy and non-threatening young man, so much so that he didn't take Spitzer seriously when he suggested acting out against Rottenberg.

Like many in the village, Spitzer was upset that the 43-year-old plumber was breaking one of the rebbe's fundamental dictates that residents never pray outside the community.

"He made a few jokes in school about it," the teenage classmate said. "I didn't think he really intended to do it."

A few days later, Spitzer was accused of trying to torch Rottenberg's house, appearing at 4 a.m. with a plastic bag of gasoline.

Police say Spitzer set Rottenberg on fire when confronted, nearly killing him while also burning himself."

Skver Mafia 6 said...

"Group of devotees enforces obedience to grand rebbe in New Square, residents say

The FBI is working with Ramapo police in the investigation of the attack, authorities said Friday. The probe also will look into months of alleged vandalism, harassment and threats in New Square, Detective Lt. Mark Emma said.

Spitzer's classmate said he could identify seven members of the group by name, but figures there are about 40 members, ranging from their late teens to early 30s.

"Shaul was the normalest guy I saw in school, but lately these people got a hold over him," the classmate said. "He started acting crazy."

The group's numbers and activities have grown in recent years with campaigns that include the smashing of windows, car vandalism and threatening late-night phone calls. They also engage in physical intimidation, fighting with young people who disobey the rules.

They support the rebbe, following his movements and embracing his message as the word of God.

"Whenever they saw me, they tried to hurt me," said Spitzer's classmate, who said members smashed his camera twice when he took pictures in the vicinity of the rebbe. The rebbe, like his father before him, has made it clear he doesn't want pictures taken of him.

"They're around (the rebbe) all the time," he said. "They smile at you, but if you do a wrong thing, if you take a picture, they're going to make you suffer all year. If you say something about (the rebbe), make fun of (the rebbe) around people, they're going to hit you.

"The rebbe is a holy man, but these people around him, these ugly people, make the rebbe look bad."

David Hersh, 21, of Williamsburg in Brooklyn, who spends Shabbas and joins other events in New Square, estimates the group numbers 10 people.

"Everybody calls them the jihadis because they do crazy stuff to make the grand rabbi comfortable," Hersh said. "They fight for him. They enforce the rules in crazy ways. When someone doesn't follow rules, they crack windows. The rebbe doesn't like people taking pictures of him, so they run around looking for cameras and break them."

Members of the group are suspected of carrying out campaigns of violence and intimidation against Rottenberg and some friends in September and October after they began praying at the Friedwald House, a senior residence outside the village, say some community members.

On Sept. 13, he and two other men reported that windows on their cars had been smashed. Rottenberg said his daughter was kicked out of school. He told police her desk was removed from school and put on the family's front porch after he got a warning to keep her away.

People who work at the school said the desk was apparently removed by youngsters, whom they refer to as "hotheads."

They act out in the name of the rebbe, but not at his direction, the school workers said.

"The rebbe does not get involved on a day-to-day basis with problems that go on," one staffer said. "He gives out his rules, his standards, and we're supposed to fulfill them. Whatever the grand rebbe wants us to do we have to do."

He said a congregation board tries to speak with offenders and negotiate with them to bring them into compliance.

"If that doesn't work, then you've got the hotheads," he said. "There are always hotheads who think they're important and try to come up with their own solutions."

He doesn't agree with their tactics but said he understands the source of their anger.

"We want everybody who lives in the village to have one mind," he said. "We have one rabbi. I believe he's the holy spirit mind. If you don't like it, you should move."

Skver Mafia 7 said...

"Group of devotees enforces obedience to grand rebbe in New Square, residents say

When Rottenberg's lawyer, Michael Sussman, held a news conference last week, he was heckled by Shulem Sofer, who shouted it was justifiable to burn down Rottenberg's home — although not to injure anyone — if he went against the rebbe's rules.

Mordechai Loeffler, 33, another of the rebbe's followers who attended the news conference, said later that Rottenberg "made himself the victim" by going against the community.

"We told him a few times not to go against the rebbe," Loeffler said. "Mr. Rottenberg was ready to fight."

David Fromowitz, one of the men who defied the grand rebbe, described a campaign of "terror" after he started praying at Friedwald.

Young men from the congregation would gather outside his family's home, yelling for them to leave. The family received threatening phone calls, and Fromowitz found two potatoes stuffed into his car muffler while he was driving with one of his sons.

Another time, people egged his car.

In the middle of a Saturday night, an unidentified man called Fromowitz and told him not to send his children to school Monday.

He sent them anyway.

The next day, someone over the school loudspeaker told his son Hershy to leave right away.

Later in the day, that same person declared, "If you're not going to leave, we're going to beat you up," Fromowitz said.

Fromowitz continued to send his kids to school until, he said, he received a call from Mendel Berger, a community leader.

Berger told him he had "big chutzpah" and "how dare I send them back?" Fromowitz said.

Berger, whose father Chaim was a founder of the village in 1954 and a top adviser to Twersky, is closely aligned with the rebbe.

Chaim Berger, who died in prison in 2004, served time for orchestrating the theft of millions of dollars from a local college and federal subsidy programs.

Mendel Berger declined to comment on Fromowitz's allegation that he pressured him to pull his children from school.

Fromowitz said he finally moved his children to a school in Monsey — and that the grand rebbe unsuccessfully tried to block the transfer by calling the school's rabbi.

Fromowitz called police last fall after his car was vandalized, and he phoned again after last month's arson, fearful that his family might come under attack as well. Police sent a patrol car to guard Fromowitz's house.

Rottenberg also faced months of abuse.

On a Saturday night in October, he called police to report a large group protesting outside his home."

Skver Mafia 8 said...

"Group of devotees enforces obedience to grand rebbe in New Square, residents say

The group of about four dozen males, ranging in age from 15 to 50, dispersed when an officer pulled up, police said. Rottenberg asked a sergeant and police officer to speak with Berger, suggesting he held some sway with the group.

According to the police report, Berger told them he wanted nothing to do with the situation, that the Rottenbergs' problems were their own to handle and that he could not and would not help.

Fromowitz was also intimidated at the synagogue, where his shoes were taken after he took a dip in the mikvah, a ritual bath. His tallit bag, which includes his prayer shawl and tefillin, was taken from him.

His decision to give up and buy a house in Monsey ended the intimidation in January.

The 33-year-old father of five said he prayed at Friedwald "to help the old people — and (the community) terrorized me ... I don't want my kids growing up this way."

The teens and young men who carry out threats and attacks are "kids that have no brains, no self-esteem," Fromowitz said. "They think if they don't think of David Twersky as God every minute, they're going to die. We're servants of God, not of another guy."

"Anyone who is successful and thinks for himself and not only about the grand rebbe is a threat," he said. "They can't afford for the world to find out what's going on here."

Four days after the arson, the rebbe condemned the violence and offered prayers for those injured, not mentioning any names.

The victim's family rejected his overture.

Aron Rottenberg's son-in-law, Moshe Elbaum, said the New Square religious community uses young people to enforce the customs and rules set forth by the rebbe and his advisers.

The eight-month campaign against his father-in-law was obviously retribution to force him out of the community or keep him in line, he said.

Elbaum, who moved out of New Square when he married Rottenberg's daughter, said the community does not tolerate dissent.

"If you don't follow the rules, you get warned in many different ways," Elbaum said. "If you don't stop and join them, it won't be just stones. Obviously, they did more than stones against my father-in-law."

Ex-Skver Chossid said...


Anonymous said...

Do you have an idea,how many jews in Satmar have been hospitalized the last 15 years in the infighting between the two brothers,?. did you know that 5 years ago,the Satmar rebbe's gabai Moshe Friedman,was deliberately run over by a low life hasid of the other rebbe,,and had to spent 3 months in the hospital,and the perpertrator had to run away to brazil,and he is still there.
Do you have an idea what is going on in Viznits in Israel,where the two brothers are fighting over who will be the next rebbe,and the police have to be called in almost every shabbos to separate the warring gangs,and the same thing is going on in Bobov,between the two warring factions,and in Chabad bwtween the meshichisten and the normal ones, and do you remmember,that in the early fifties when reb Ahron z''l the old Belzer rebbe was alive,he had a brother the Bilgelayer Rov z'l, (the father of todays belzer rebbi ) some of his gangster chasidim tried to drown him in the mikveh,yes you read it right ''they literally tried to kill him' and the yeshivishe world is not much better,do you have an idea how many times the police in bnei brak had to be called in to break up bloody fights in the Ponovits yeshiva.
Bottom line is chasidis'm (at least how it evolved) is nothing more than ignorant tribalism.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...


Yedioth Ahronoth (p. 8) by Akiva Novick - A rabbinic court in Jerusalem sentenced a stray dog this week to be stoned to death. The reason for the cruel ruling lies in the suspicion that the dog was a reincarnation of a senior secular lawyer-who offended the local rabbinic judges 20 years ago,led by Rabbi Avraham Dov Levin.

This past Wednesday-as reported by the Hadrei Haredim web site-a large
dog entered the gates of the rabbinic court for financial affairs, which islocated near Mea Shearim. The dog frightened the people who were present inthe court, and to their great surprise refused to leave, despite the factthat they tried to drive it away. One of the judges then recalled thatabout 20 years ago, members of the court cursed a famous secular lawyer whooffended them, and wished him to be reincarnated as a dog (which is
considered an unclean animal, according to Halacha). Yesterday, despite thelong time that had elapsed, some recognized in the dog the soul of thislawyer, who has since passed away.

Apparently, the offense still stands,and according to the Haredi web site, one of the judges ordered the unfortunate animal stoned, and recruited the children of the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood for the task. Fortunately, the dog fled.

The president of the court, Rabbi Levin, denied that the court had issuedinstructions to stone the dog. However, one of the assistants of the court
said yesterday in a conversation with Yedioth Ahronoth that this indeed tookplace. "This was order by the rabbis because of the sorrow he caused to the
court," he said. "No official ruling was issued, but the children outside were told to throw stones at him in order to drive him away. They didn't
think about this as causing suffering to animals, but rather as a proper way to 'get even' with the soul that was reincarnated in the poor dog."

Yesterday, Jerusalem councilwoman and social activist Rachel Azariaaddressed an urgent letter to the attorney general, calling upon him to"prosecute the criminals to the full extent of the law." Let the AnimalsLive-Israel also announced that it would file a complaint with the police against Rabbi Levin.

New York Times said...

NEW SQUARE, N.Y. — Last September, Aron Rottenberg did something radical.

Along with some friends, he began worshiping not at the grand synagogue at the center of this ultra-Orthodox Skver Hasidic community in Rockland County, but outside the village at a residence for the elderly.

Before long, a rabbinical court ruled that praying outside the synagogue was a serious violation of community rules.

Next, groups outside Mr. Rottenberg’s house smashed windows and dumped his daughter’s school desk and books on the front porch. And on May 22, an early-morning attack left Mr. Rottenberg with third-degree burns over most of his body.

Shaul Spitzer, 18, who lived in the house of Grand Rabbi David Twersky and worked as his butler, was charged with attempted murder and attempted arson. Mr. Spitzer, too, was hospitalized with serious burns.

The attack on Mr. Rottenberg, 43, who has lived in New Square for 30 years, is drawing renewed attention to the insular and rapidly growing Hasidic communities in Rockland and Orange Counties, and in particular to what some see as a symbiotic relationship of ultra-Orthodox communities with government officials and politicians.

Mr. Rottenberg’s lawyer, Michael Sussman, requested a federal hate-crime investigation in a May 26 letter to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr.

Mr. Sussman said officials in the town of Ramapo, where New Square is located, had long been intimidated by the Hasidic community’s often-unanimous bloc vote, leaving them unwilling to investigate leaders of the community.

The attack, Mr. Sussman wrote, “was not just an isolated incident against one particular family.”

“Rather,” he continued, “it illustrates a systemic crisis of religious bigotry and intolerance” in New Square and similar Hasidic communities. He said he planned to file suit this week against the village leadership.

Hank Sheinkopf, a public relations executive representing a group of New Square citizens, said of the May 22 attack, “This is a singular act, which is not reflective of the community, which has a history of living very much in peace and quiet.”

Ramapo police officials said Friday that they were working with F.B.I. agents in the investigation.

Grand Rabbi Twersky, 70, who has led New Square, and Skverer Hasidim worldwide, since his father died in April 1968, issued a statement four days after the attack in which he said he was praying for Mr. Rottenberg’s recovery.

“We condemn in the strongest possible terms the use of violence under any circumstances,” he said.

The Rottenberg family had recently installed surveillance cameras, out of fear of attacks and harassment. Mr. Rottenberg’s eldest son, Jacob, was monitoring the cameras around 4 a.m. on May 22 when he saw at least one intruder placing gasoline-soaked rags behind the house. Screaming, he awoke his father, who ran outside only to have the gasoline explode and set him afire.

Eliot L. Engel, who represents part of Rockland County in Congress, termed the attack “horrific” and urged an investigation, without calling for federal involvement.

Linda Walker/Child Protection Project said...

Part Two

Fifth, my kindred suffered from a fatal genetic disease and I realized that the practices inherent in polygamy possibly contributed to the suffering of my kinship group. I studied other polygamous family lines. Gradually, I became convinced that there is a substantial deleterious genetic load carried by kindred's who adopted this unsound marriage system. One man cannot take many wives from within a small group of families and not be engaged in consanguineous marriages. Modern polygamy is rife with catastrophic inherited illness.

Currently, a slick public relations campaign claims polygamy is just another lifestyle choice. The national press appears hoodwinked and ignorant of the facts as they continue to run "ain't this quaint stories." Reed Richards, Utah Deputy Attorney General, claims that if they prosecute polygamists they will have to prosecute adulterers and same sex relationships. This is false reasoning and his mandate is to uphold the law even if he disagrees with it. The fact that he hails from polygamy may have something to do with his cognitive dissonance on the subject.

Child Protection Project intends to start a national campaign called NO MORE AMNESTY. Time after time forgiving federal officials have given amnesty to practicing polygamists asking only that they start to obey the law in return. Repeatedly, they have taken this amnesty and continued the dangerous practice of polygamy. This now represents a human and civil rights nightmare. A nightmare the press has finally woken up to over the last five years because polygamy activists demanded they tell the true story. Taxpayers repeatedly pick up the costs of those ignoring the laws. Children suffer from poverty, abuse and disease, all a result of governmental inaction and apathy.

Generations of endogamous (breeding within the group) polygamy have caused a genetic disaster. Children are suffering a boatload of serious and life threatening illness as a result.

Most people have never thought about polygamy because they think they are unaffected by its practice and know nothing about it. It is common to snicker when the subject is mentioned. However, the record shows that this is not a benign institution. Incest is epidemic. Child and spousal abuse are not only tolerated, but often taught as part of the 'religious' doctrine.

It is my hope that you will visit this site as it grows and expands. It is not an easy site to view. These are complicated social problems, yet the public needs to demand that Utah start coping with them and finally free these religious indentured servants. If born into this system, there is virtually no escape from their isolated desert or mountain encampments. I thank my parents for leaving Utah and seeking a better life.

Linda Walker
Child Protection Project

China and Rabbonim say that Internet is the biggest problem said...

ABC News:

"China Calls US Culprit in Global 'Internet War'

BEIJING June 3, 2011 (AP)

The Chinese military accused the U.S. on Friday of launching a global "Internet war" to bring down Arab and other governments, redirecting the spotlight away from allegations of major online attacks on Western targets originating in China.

The accusations Friday by Chinese military academy scholars, and their urging of tougher policing of the Internet, followed allegations this week that computer hackers in China had compromised the personal Gmail accounts of several hundred people, including government officials, military personnel and political activists.

Google traced the origin of the attacks to the city of Jinan that is home to a military vocational school whose computers were linked to a more sophisticated assault on Google's systems 17 months ago. China has denied responsibility for the two attacks.

Writing in the Communist Party-controlled China Youth Daily newspaper, the scholars did not mention Google's claims, but said recent computer attacks and incidents employing the Internet to promote regime change in Arab nations appeared to have originated with the U.S. government.

"Of late, an Internet tornado has swept across the world ... massively impacting and shocking the globe. Behind all this lies the shadow of America," said the article, signed by Ye Zheng and Zhao Baoxian, identified as scholars with the Academy of Military Sciences.

"Faced with this warmup for an Internet war, every nation and military can't be passive but is making preparations to fight the Internet war," it said.

While nuclear war was a strategy of the industrial era, Internet war is a product of the information age, the article said. Such conflicts stand to be hugely destructive, threatening national security and the very existence of the state, it said.

China needs to "express to the world its principled stance of maintaining an 'Internet border' and protecting its 'Internet sovereignty,' unite all advanced forces to dive into the raging torrent of the age of peaceful use of the Internet, and return to the Internet world a healthy, orderly environment," the article said.

China already heavily filters content and blocks numerous foreign websites, a system known as the "Great Firewall of China." The police employ a large force of Internet monitors to scour the Web for content deemed illegal or subversive, and those users transmitting sensitive contact can be charged with sedition or other crimes.

A number of foreign governments say they've been targeted by hacking attacks from China, although Beijing routinely denies undertaking such operations and says it too is a victim of such activity.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told reporters attacks such as the one alleged by Google were a primary reason why the State Department had for the first time created a cyber-security coordinator.

The FBI said it was investigating Google's allegations, but no official government email accounts have been compromised. Google said all the hacking victims have been notified and their accounts have been secured."

One Year Since Troppers Fall 35 said...


"Tuesday, February 16, 2010

Tropper's admission of guilt and resignation - A blow by blow

The progression of events have been as follows:

Last Tuesday afternoon, leading Rabbinic figures in Monsey met. That meeting was put together by Rabbi Dovid Ribiat and was chaired by one of the most senior Roshei Yeshiva in Monsey, HaGaon HaRav Moshe Green Shlita, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva D’Monsey.

Others present at that Tuesday meeting included Rav Shlomo Breslauer Shlita, Rav of Beis Tefillah; Rav Yisroel Dovid Schlesinger, of K’hal Shaarei Tefillah; Rav Chaim Schabes the Morah D’Asra of Knesses Yisroel in New Hempstead; Rav Shlomo Zalman Kaufman, Dayan of the Beis Horaah Beis Din and Rav Ben Tzion Kokis, Rav of K’hal Zichron Mordechai in South Monsey.

The idea was to have an expanded meeting on Sunday in Yeshiva Beis Mikreh of Monsey. There, the Rabbonim were to sign this Kol Koreh below.

Click on the image from FailedMessiah.com to see the full size document

The Kol Koreh would proclaim Tropper a menuval and demand of Tropper to resign all his posts and to leave Monsey. A messenger of the Rabbonim, Rabbi Yehuda Weissler, was dispatched to summon Tropper and to have him make himself available at 10:30 PM. Rabbi Weissler got hold of Tropper by phone and informed him of what the Rabbonim wanted.

In the mean time, one of the Rabbonim who attended the first meeting, Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Schlesinger, had been having several private meetings with Leib Tropper, and Rabbi Schlesinger began trying to forestall the consequences of severe Rabbinic censure on Tropper and to save Tropper from the embarrassment of having the Kol Koreh publicized.

At this point, rumours were swirling that the Tropper Sex Video tape were made public on the internet.

Rabbi Schlesinger, prevailed upon Tropper to sign two agreements at the eleventh hour one to the Hanholah of Kol Yaakov

Click on the image from FailedMessiah.com to see the full size document

Interestingly Tropper gets to keep all the money that Kol Yaakov has which includes over 10 million given by Tom Kaplan and Guma Aguir.

And another one similar to the one above, in addition to his promising to leave Monsey,

Click on the image from FailedMessiah.com to see the full size document

in which he would both step down and agree to a number of the demands of the Rabbis.

The agreement that Tropper signed began, “In not fulfilling the requirement of Shulchan Aruch that a leader be “Pirko No’eh”, the undersigned is relinquishing his position..” It further stated that he releases all rights and severs any connection he has to his former Yeshiva in Monsey and withdraws forthwith as a trustee of the organization.

Tropper also agreed to move out of Monsey within a few months.

And appointed Rav Aharon Schechter the Rosh Yeshiva of Chaim Berlin and Reb Elya Ber Wachtfogel and Rabbi Dovid Wolpin to be in charge of picking a new Rosh Yeshiva.

Looks like at the end of the day Tropper get off with a slap on the wrist and millions of dollars, he is now free to settle in any other Jewish community."

Dissapointed said...

I hate to say it but your'e beginning to sound like the pseudo "intellectual" "Orthodox" blog site, DovBear where posts similar to this are a common day occurrence.Come on! Your'e better then that.

Emes said...

Perhaps there's some kernel of truth in the overtly anti-semitic article that you quoted six years ago and once again now.However the same can be said of the "Protocols..."."Mein Kampf" and other Anti-semitic rags.As they say, in every sheker there is some emes.
I know that you mean well but this is a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

Rodef Emes sort of summed it up really well almost 6 years ago.

Rodefemes said...
A few kernels of truth there, surrounded by some classical anti-Semitism. Even before I checked, I guessed that the excerpt came from an older book, and it does, Millman, 1939. The thinking behind the writing reflects a very Christian pre-war viewpoint of the Jews and Judaism. I acknowledge your intellectual honesty, UOJ, for giving us this information, because an excerpt like that would not be published nowadays.

I think UOJ's point is that the rabbis of today, particularly the Roshei Yeshiva are exercising far too much control and influence in today's Jewish society, and I agree. We are seeing some cultish behaviours even in mainstream yeshivas. This also includes the way money is raised from baal habaatim. Its disturbing.

Case in point: Every week, Yated, in its centerfold, published dozens of photos of old rabbis with white beards making havdoloh, making brachos under chuppahs, shaking hands with chassonim, dancing in circles. Why? This is cultish. Its the cult of personality, the type of thing that dictatorships do. The yeshiva bochurim soak this stuff up. Its the first thing they go to, looking for their beloved rebbes and Roshei Yeshiva.

I have never seen a photo of a good baal habayis getting up early in the morning going to work, and coming home late at night, supporting his family, paying his taxes, saying Shma with his children at night, buying them small gifts, learning with them a few minutes - what about us, the fathers and mothers of klal Yisroel. Are we nothing? Is Judaism all about rabbis?

At one time, people would prominently put photos of their parents in their homes. Now, more likely, you'll see photos of old, white bearded rabbis in people's homes - rabbis who died years ago, who were never known to them, either personally, or through their seforim.

My son has pictures of four or five old and deceased rabbis on his bedroom wall - but not my photo. Nor his mother's. He knows their names, but is unfamiliar with their writings and words.

At one time, if you asked people who their heroes are, many would say, their parents. Today, from an orthodox Jew, you're more likely to get the answer, HaRav HaGaon, Rav Chaim Pipick, who gave mussar shmueses once a week at my yeshiva. What about Mom and Dad who struggle so hard to pay the yeshiva?

Whatever happened to the Jewish family? As Rosh Yeshiva power ascends, the Jewish family descends - into a vortex of internal machlokos, divorce, abuse, kids at risk, you name it.

There's a great letter from a Chaim Goldman in today's Jewish Press. Buy it. He's a yeshiva bochur complaining that the Jewish Press is about as Jewish as the pope - and is garbage - because last week they published a photo showing the Nobel Prize winner Auman being kissed by his granddaughter! Can you imagine a yingele speaking to such hard working adults, who support their families, and who do a lot for the Jewish world, in such a manner, over such a photo showing a warm, emotional family event! The brazen chutzpah, it is so disgusting! And Auman, what a kiddish Hashem, speaking about him in such a manner, because his granddaughter kissed him!

Just some thoughts.

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:54:00 PM

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

And I might add, that in order to somehow locate the center, the pendulum, or in my case, the conversation, has to be tilted and leaning heavily in the other direction.

To quote or rather paraphrase what one rather intelligent observer of the present scene said; " it was one guy, not an organization, not a fundraising campaign, and not a Convention, that brought the rabbi child sex-abuse issue to every Jewish (and gentile's) mouth at his own personal expense."

"Now", he says, "you may not like the way he did it, but he got it done, when every person initially said he was out of his mind."

And to quote another detractor of mine - "what we needed was one huge mechutzaf to break the status quo, we got one with huge credibility".

So yes, while this piece seems crude and anti-semitic on its face, nevertheless, thinking people will wonder, or should wonder, just how much of this seemingly anti-semitic rant got it exactly right!

Wondering said...


Where does the truth end, and the lies begin?

Was Moshe Rabbeinu a cult personality? Was Dovid Hamelech a power hungry king who just cared for his own selfish reasons?

Why did the Malchus bais Doviv go from father to son? Is that not akin to today's Roshei Hayeshiva inheriting their father's Yeshiva (which I abhor)?

When do we say, "okay, this is superstition and old fashioned", and when do we say, "This is how G-d intended it to be"?

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

Torah b'ksav or b'peh is not up for debate.

HKBH gave us sechel, if something is unquestionably wrong, no person, regarding what they claim to be, can make it right.

Witness the midgets today supposedly representing halacha and mesorah; need I say more?

Boruch said...

The following comments are off-topic.

We have a serio-comic situation in the House of Representatives. A. Weiner is caught tweeting his meager contribution to politics to anyone who would be caught dead looking. Nancy Pelosi, a paragon of virteous morality, (and a close friend of Bill Clinton, another paragon) is calling for an ethics investigation. Unemployment is sky high. Our boys are being picked off in Afghanistan. A college student is missing in Indiana. The Oscar Meyer Weiner knockoff is getting more press than the frank. Is this America or what? Robin Williams, Bob Hope, and a gaggle of comedy writers are chewing off their arms to get a piece of this. It's an HBO special.

You're talking about senseless rabbinics with questionable morals and hands caught in every imaginable cookie jar. And here we have a celebrity politician who's greatest ambition, here-to-fore, was to carry Schumer's address book. (What A. Weiner could get all those tweets by himself, you ask) A. Weiner has upstage some of the biggest - needless to say - in the yeshivah, chassidish and now political spectrums. Go for A. Weiner.

Airline barf bags to be freely distributed.

wondering said...

Okay, so when does torah shebal peh end? The gemara? Rishonim? Arizal? Besht? Gra? Chofetz Chaim? R' Moshe? Novominsker?

When do we say, okay this is no torah shebal peh anymore?

Moshe Feiglin said...

The Jewish Press:

"A Jewish Answer To President Obama

Moshe Feiglin Posted Jun 01 2011

Dear President Obama,

In your recent speech focusing on the Middle East, you referred time and again to the principle of liberty. It is on this principle that you aim to base U.S. policy in our region, the cradle of human culture.

It is not only humanity's past that is related to this area, but its future as well. The instability in the Middle East presents the greatest danger to the world since World War II. The fate of humanity is inextricably linked to the expanse upon which Abraham, our forefather, started out on his trek to human liberty.

The truth is that the entire Land of Israel belongs exclusively to the nation of Israel. The Creator promised it time and again to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - to them and their descendants.

There is no Palestinian "nation" - and there never has been. Under every stone turned over in the Promised Land, one finds remnants of the history of the nation chosen by the Creator to proclaim His message of liberty. In no place in the Holy Land will you find Palestinian history, simply because it does not and has never existed.

You demand of the nation to which God gave the Land of Israel, from which to proclaim liberty to the entire world, to retreat from the heartland of the Promised Land. You demand that we abandon the proclamation that is supposed to emerge from Zion to the hands of those who invented the suicide bomber, to the hands of those who celebrated in the streets when bin Laden destroyed the Twin Towers, to the hands of a culture that sanctifies death.

Do you honestly believe that this is what will bring peace to the world?

All the revolutions currently taking place in the Arab world are missing the main actor - the alternative. They aim to overthrow the existing regime, but offer no alternative regime. It is very likely, Mr. Obama, that we are not witnessing an Arab Spring. It is more reasonable to assume that we are witnessing the disintegration of the Arab nation-states. The modern structure of nation-state that was forced upon the nations of the region by the powers that won World War I never really fit with Islamic culture. It could very well be that our region is simply returning to its natural structure, a tribal Muslim expanse - Dar al-Islam. The vacuum that is being created is an irresistible enticement for rulers like Iran's Ahmadinejad. The modern-day Hitler is already planning the new Islamic caliphate that will stretch under his control from the Euphrates to the Nile."

Moshe Feiglin said...

"A Jewish Answer To President Obama

Mr. Obama, there is no chance that with your approach, the United States will be able to stop this process. With the course that you are leading, the free world will rapidly find itself facing an Iranian Middle East. From this horror scenario, it is just a short distance to a terrible war that will encompass the entire world. You may want peace, but I regret to tell you that just like Chamberlain, you are pushing the world down a slippery slope to the most horrifying of wars.

Only a significant force that will extend its influence over the area, motivated by a set of values opposite to those that Iran is attempting to dictate, and only an entity that is here to stay and not to flee after another failed attempt at Arab democracy, can save the free world from this nightmare.

There is a force like that in the Middle East. There is a nation in the region that is here for eternity; a nation that miraculously returned to its land after 2,000 years of exile - precisely as our God and our prophets promised throughout the Bible.

Israel's tremendous contribution to humanity, its contribution of values, technology and security, is immeasurable. Israel is the strongest power in the Middle East - economically, militarily, and most importantly ethically.

So, Mr. Obama, before you pressure Israel to relinquish the Promised Land to the Arabs, it is important for you to look at the wondrous Jewish history and to understand that if the U.S. wants to succeed, it must stand at Israel's side. The flip side of that is that every action that opposes the Creator's promise to His nation will bring about catastrophe.

"And I will bless those who bless you," said the Creator to Abraham. This is the secret of America's success to date. "And those who curse you I will curse," God warns.

The Creator's promise to His nation will be completely fulfilled, and we will yet see the Holy Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. There is no doubt about that.

May you be wise enough not to pressure Israel. In the future, may you stand on the blessed side of God's promise to Abraham."

Goodbye Anthony Weiner Representative of the Flatbush Rabbonim said...

"I have made some terrible mistakes," Representative Anthony D. Weiner said. "I have not been honest."

[Anthony Weiner has been hosted and hosted toasted by all the machers and big mouths of frum Flatbush through which his district runs. He should have read some of their kol kores against use of the Internet. Too bad he married that Arab woman last Tisha Be'Aav, look at him now the shmo as he's caught with his pants down like a Leib Tropper:]

The New York Times:

"Democrats Shy From Weiner as G.O.P. Seizes on Scandal

Published: June 7, 2011

Caught in a maelstrom of his own making, Representative Anthony D. Weiner saw his support on Capitol Hill crumble after he admitted having inappropriate online exchanges with women. A brash and talented New York politician with many admirers on the left, but few close allies, he suddenly finds himself alone on a hostile stage.

No sooner had Mr. Weiner delivered a startlingly abject admission and apology — carried live on television Monday from a circuslike news conference in Manhattan — than top Democrats on Capitol Hill began distancing themselves from him and his behavior.

Several, including Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House minority leader, called for an ethics inquiry into whether Mr. Weiner had violated House rules or used official resources to carry on his salacious electronic conversations.

Representative Steve Israel of Nassau County, the leader of the party’s effort to recapture a majority in Congress, said Mr. Weiner had “embarrassed himself, his family and the House.”

Others said it would be impossible to support Mr. Weiner given the outrageous things he had admitted, the likelihood that Republicans would make a target of anyone who came to his defense, and the possibility that some of the women he had contacted were minors.

Then there was the fact that his confession had occurred, in the words of one top Democratic Congressional official, a week too late. “It’s hard to trust in an individual who already lied,” said the official, who like others interviewed insisted on anonymity because of the sensitivities surrounding the matter.

As Democratic leaders sought to apply a tourniquet to Mr. Weiner, Republicans sought to use the spectacle he had created against Democrats in general, and in particular against Ms. Pelosi, who once pledged to “drain the swamp” of corruption involving Republicans in Congress.

The National Republican Congressional Committee distributed a memo to reporters with a series of quotes from top Democrats in which they gave Mr. Weiner the benefit of the doubt when the scandal first erupted a week ago.

A spokesman for the committee, Paul Lindsay, said, “It’s time for Democratic leadership to explain why Congressman Weiner’s actions never aroused any suspicion, and why they rushed to his defense while so many Americans were shocked and confused by his bizarre and disturbing behavior.”

Goodbye Anthony Weiner Representative of the Flatbush Rabbonim said...

"Democrats Shy From Weiner as G.O.P. Seizes on Scandal

In the Senate, Republicans went after Mr. Weiner’s political mentor, Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, noting that Mr. Schumer had defended him in the early days of the controversy.

“Given Senator Schumer’s firm defense of Mr. Weiner, we look forward to hearing what the senator has to say now,” said Brian Walsh, a spokesman for the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee. “Does Senator Schumer believe no ethics rules were broken?”

Mr. Schumer issued his own statement late Monday saying he was “deeply pained and saddened” by the day’s news.

“By fully explaining himself, apologizing to all he hurt and taking full responsibility for his wrongful actions, Anthony did the right thing,” Mr. Schumer said. “He remains a talented and committed public servant, and I pray he and his family can get through these difficult times.”

But it was the hushed silence of most Democrats on Monday — apart from those who were stampeding away from him — that served as a poignant reminder of Mr. Weiner’s relative solitude within the political spheres of Washington and New York.

Widely seen as enjoying Mr. Schumer’s press instincts but not his political skills, Mr. Weiner has never been particularly popular with his colleagues, who describe him as a lone wolf with a snide streak that can verge on nasty — as when he screamed at a New York colleague, Representative Peter T. King, a Republican, on the House floor during a debate on the 9/11 health bill.

Mr. Weiner has also been a frequent thorn in the side of Democratic leaders — saying President Obama, for example, had failed to show leadership in the fight with Republicans over health reform.

Those resentments were only magnified in the past week, as Democrats in New York and Washington complained bitterly that the momentum they had won — with an upset victory in a special House election in Buffalo, and renewed confidence about pressing the attack against Republicans over Medicare — had been squandered in the media frenzy over Mr. Weiner and his Twitter account.

Another factor likely coloring attitudes toward Mr. Weiner’s future among his New York colleagues is that the loss of two seats in reapportionment may well mean the elimination of a House district in the city or on Long Island. A resignation by Mr. Weiner could thus be expected to be greeted by some audible sighs of relief.

Yet the most immediate question for Mr. Weiner is how voters respond in his district, which straddles Brooklyn and Queens.

“Anthony’s very popular, because he’s a very good fighter for the issues that are important to the district, like health care, jobs and support for Israel,” Assemblyman Rory I. Lancman, a Democrat and one of Mr. Weiner’s Queens constituents, said. “I frankly don’t want to lose that, if all this amounts to is a problem that he needs to resolve with his wife.”

Carl Hulse contributed reporting."

Spotlight on the Queens Vaad said...


If Queens Vaad Executive Drecktor Chaim Schwartz was looking for Congressman Weiner to shake his hand at the Israel Day parade he was out of luck. Weiner was hiding under his bed at home as reporters were closing in on proof that he covered up maysim menuvolim.

After the proof was released to the public, the Queens Congressman arranged a press conference to shed some crocodile tears but insist that he is not resigning.

Weiner has no support even from Democrats, except for Assemblyman Lancman who is a mispalel & macher at the VHQ shul led by Queens Vaad co-President Rabbi Dr. Richard Weiss:


“Anthony’s very popular, because he’s a very good fighter for the issues that are important to the district, like health care, jobs and support for Israel,” Assemblyman Rory I. Lancman, a Democrat and one of Mr. Weiner’s Queens constituents, said. “I frankly don’t want to lose that, if all this amounts to is a problem that he needs to resolve with his wife.”

(his wife is an Arab Muslim woman)

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...


The Torah and Judaism's oral lawSee also: Oral Torah
Rabbinic tradition holds that the written Torah was transmitted in parallel with the oral tradition. Where the Torah leaves words and concepts undefined, and mentions procedures without explanation or instructions, the reader is required to seek out the missing details from supplemental sources known as the oral law or oral Torah.[36] Some of the Torah's most prominent commandments needing further explanation are:

Tefillin: As indicated in Deuteronomy 6:8 among other places, tefillin are to be placed on the arm and on the head between the eyes. However, there are no details provided regarding what tefillin are or how they are to be constructed.

Kosher laws: As indicated in Exodus 23:19 among other places, a kid may not be boiled in its mother's milk. [A kid being a young goat.] In addition to numerous other problems with understanding the ambiguous nature of this law, there are no vowelization characters in the Torah; they are provided by the oral tradition. This is particularly relevant to this law, as the Hebrew word for milk (חלב) is identical to the word for animal fat when vowels are absent. Without the oral tradition, it is not known whether the violation is in mixing meat with milk or with fat.

Shabbat laws: With the severity of Sabbath violation, namely the death penalty, one would assume that direction would be provided as to how exactly such a serious and core commandment should be upheld. However, there is little to no information as to what can and cannot be performed on the Sabbath. Without the oral tradition, keeping this law would be impossible.

According to classical rabbinic texts this parallel set of material was originally transmitted to Moses at Sinai, and then from Moses to Israel. At that time it was forbidden to write and publish the oral law, as any writing would be incomplete and subject to misinterpretation and abuse.

However, after exile, dispersion and persecution, this tradition was lifted when it became apparent that in writing was the only way to ensure that the Oral Law could be preserved. After many years of effort by a great number of tannaim, the oral tradition was written down around 200 CE by Rabbi Judah haNasi who took up the compilation of a nominally written version of the Oral Law, the Mishnah. Other oral traditions from the same time period not entered into the Mishnah were recorded as "Baraitot" (external teaching), and the Tosefta. Other traditions were written down as Midrashim.

After continued persecution more of the oral law was committed to writing. A great many more lessons, lectures and traditions only alluded to in the few hundred pages of Mishnah, became the thousands of pages now called the Gemara. Gemara is Aramaic, having been compiled in Babylon. The Mishnah and Gemara together are called the Talmud. The Rabbis in Israel also collected their traditions and compiled them into the Jerusalem Talmud. Since the greater number of Rabbis lived in Babylon, the Babylonian Talmud has precedence should the two be in conflict.

Orthodox Jews and Conservative Jews accept these texts as the basis for all subsequent halakha and codes of Jewish law, which are held to be normative. Reform and Reconstructionist Jews deny that these texts may be used for determining normative law (laws accepted as binding) but accept them as the authentic and only Jewish version for understanding the Torah and its development throughout history.

Wondering said...

I fail to see the difference between the Rabbis of the Talmud and the Rabbis of the more recent generations.

We all love to say how terrible all of today's Rabbis are. We also sometimes wonder if the Rabbis of the more recent generations had a clue, or were just cultists and power-hungry.

Why would the Talmudic Rabbis be any different.

I await an intellectually honest answer.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

We can change today and tomorrow, we can not change yesterday!

Boruch said...


Your question is answered, honestly and intellectually, by a question. What makes a Rabbi, a Rabbi? If you break up the word in Hebrew, you get Ra Bi. Evil with me. No Talmudic sage was ever called Rabbi, it was Rabban, Rav, or just their names. Major difference in their deference to Torah - the titles weren't necessary; the scholarship needed to be proved. Yeshivahs weren't factories where youngsters were given the no's of Judaism. Yeshivahs were growing, living, organisms that fed off of the Torah and debated it at high levels of scholarship. They also practiced what they preached. Hence the maklokes Beis Shammai, Beis Hillel, they respected each other but followed their own respective shitos. Today, you have Rabbis. What does that mean or what has that come to mean is homiletic fund raisers pandering to wealthy ignoramuses to keep a parnossoh. Have Jews recall that 1/10 of 1% of all students make it to a Talmid chocom level and instead of the chocom factories and the Artscroll (I know a Tzlach because Artscroll put it in the notes) gemara kop we have - we'd have great talmidei chachamim. Somewhere along the line, in the pursuit of giving all a Jewish education, we metastatized a cancer called entitlement and postition.

The enemy is us and the cure is HKBH. Honest enough.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

Excellent Boruch.

חג שמח


Weiner is Tropper and Tropper is Weiner said...

Anthony Weiner's congressional district straddles parts of Flatbush, Marine Park and some of Queens. In Flatbush, Weiner has been the favorite congressman of the likes of Aron Schechter and Abe Fruchthandler and their cronies since he took over for Chuck Shumer.

Weiner has spoken at thousands of melave malkas, yeshiva and bais yaakov graduations, and all sorts of dinners events that he was invited into by Mordy Mehlman's "Flatbush Journal Journal" type of crowd.

Now Weiner has suffered the same fate as Leib Tropper almost in the same way, by being caught performing perverted acts online.

Weiner and Tropper were both the puppets of the likes of Abe Fruchthandler and Aron Schechter and the Flatbush Agudah crowd that used both Tropper and Weiner for their own ends, and now they have twice the amount of mud in their faces, Tropper's and Weiner's cyber and phone sex as reported and recorded by their mistresses.

One can only conclude that Weiner and Tropper have finally been revealed for the political prostitutes that they are and they deserve it.

Maybe Weiner could enroll in Tropper program and get a "conversion" for his Muslim shiksa wife that he married on Tisha Be'Av. What a yots!

Weiner is Tropper and Tropper is Weiner said...

Long Island Press.com:

"Anthony Weiner Sex Messages Made Public [Transcript]

By Derek Johnson on June 7th, 2011

[Photo: U.S. Congressman Anthony Weiner, D-NY, wipes his eye during a news conference in New York, Monday, June 6, 2011. After days of denials, a choked-up New York Democratic Rep. Anthony Weiner confessed Monday that he tweeted a bulging-underpants photo of himself to a young woman and admitted to "inappropriate" exchanges with six women before and after getting married. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)

More bad news for Rep. Anthony Weiner.

One day after he admitted to sending lewd pictures of himself and having an online relationship with six women over the past three years, new information has come out about Weiner’s online relationship with a Las Vegas woman.

Radar Online has published an 11-page transcript of Weiner’s cyber relationship that started in August and ended on June 1, just days after a picture appeared on his Twitter account of a man’s crotch.

The woman on the other side of the chat, Lisa Weiss, of Las Vegas, apparently admired Weiner for his work as a Democrat—calling him “the coolest dem on the planet!”

“I want to bang the future mayor of NYC,” said the Las Vegas woman.

“I love that u r sooo hot and such a liberal,” reads another message.

Weiner allegedly writes: “when am I gonna get some lisa pics to j**k off too?”
“ridiculous bulge in my shorts now. wanna see,” he allegedly said.

The conversation, however, didn’t start off so steamy.

Click here to read the full word for word transcript from Radar Online

“I am trying to find the wonderful Anthony Weiner who I feel in love with for yelling at those damn repubs the other day! And u are funny as hell on the daily show! Your friend requests are full..you must friend me! You are awesome!”

A September message that allegedly came from Weiner reads: “woah. Super intense dream bout u just now. Woke me up.”

For about three months the communication was one-sided with Weiss sending the only messages from Oct. 3 to Jan. 19—when the conversation picked up again.

Weiss’ last message came on Jun. 1 after the news broke that the crotch picture was sent via Weiner’s Twitter account.

“u owe me big time for keeping this all quiet…i am defending u to the death on every blog and to everyone….telling everyone u would never send dirty messages to women.

“i know u haven’t been on here since u were hacked but i NEED to talk to u…someone contacted me about u…call me or something”."

Arthur said...

Reb UOJ and Boruch
Granted that much of what you say about the present day sorry state of rabonnus is true.On the other hand we don't live in a Utopian society where every Jew has the where with all to make Halichicly correct decisions as to what are the correct Torah true values.This is truer in our times more so then in previous generations. The chalishus hadoros, the level of Torah education and knowledge has most certainly deteriorated with the passage of time.As a result this has given way to the various modern day movements in Judaisim (or to be more exact,outside the pale of traditional Torah values)the Conservative,Reform, Reconstructionist ,Conservidox etc. that have abrogated to themselves the power to negate much of what we deem to be true to our Halachachic beliefs.
In this cyber age any shmendrik with a computer and access to the internet can come off looking like a latter day Vilna Gaon.The problem is that Google,Wikipedia etc.are good sources for research but have not as yet been incorporated into the corpus of our traditional sources for Halachic determination.
The dictum of "aseh lecho rav" holds true today more then at any other time in our history.
And yet this is the quandary and tragedy in which we find ourselves in view the abysmal state of Rabbonus today.A problem to which there seems to be no apparent solution.
This was not written on Yom tov.For certain Halachic reasons that are beyond the scope of this post it's not yom Tov for me today al pi Shulchan Aroch HoRav.

Weiners and Troppers fake marriages said...

Just as Leib Tropper married a model Laurel/Leba Blond Tropper who is willing to share her bed with other women and her husband Leib in threesomes, the way that Leib, Leba and Shannon Orand were videotaped in bed together and it was posted online, so is Mrs. Anthony Huma Abedin Weiner reliably reported to be in a lesbian relationship with her boss Hillary Rodham Clinton as they make monkeys out of their husbands Bill and Anthony, both in turn having been exposed by their lovers. No one could make up such stories:

"Weekly World News.com


June 7th, 2011
By Frank Lake

WASHINGTON, DC - Rumors are swirling on the internet that Weiner may be providing cover for Hillary’s love interest.

It turns out that Weiner, who has designs on becoming mayor of New York recently married Huma Abedin, a top aide the top aide for Hillary Clinton.

A Muslim of Indian/Pakistani descent, Abedin is attractive, and while Bill Clinton gallivants around the world in every strip club he can find, rarely does he make an appearance with Hillary. Abedin, on the other hand, is with Clinton day and night.

An unnamed State Department official told WWN what was already suspected about Hillary. “She is a lesbian and the Bill Clinton marriage is just a sham for public consumption.”

A top level U.S. Department of Justice official is saying off-the-record that Michael Musto’s rumor about Hillary Clinton fooling around with one of her top female aides Huma Abedin is based in reality!

“I am close enough to Hillary and Huma to tell you that this ‘rumor’ is true,” the official told WWN at a Del Taco in Georgetown. “It is well known inside her campaign that Hillary and Huma are an item.

“If you call Hillary’s residence in DC first thing in the morning, Huma answers the phone,” the official continued. “Same thing late at night and on the road. It’s a closely guarded secret that Hillary’s inner circle guards at all costs. For a fee, of course.”

It looks like Hillary wants to keep this in the closet. Many questioned why Hillary suddenly dropped out of the presidential race in 2008. She wanted the White House more than life itself. If the Obama campaign got hold of this information, that may have been the deal made with Hillary. “Obama gets the nomination, and you get Huma.”

Why would someone as driven as Clinton just quit when the brass ring was in reach?

So where does the Weiner fit in?

Weiner is a front for Huma as Bill is for Hillary. She’s happily married to a lech congressman, and Hillary is happily married to an ex-president. Of course neither wife spends any time with their husbands, but spend an inordinate amount of time with each other.

If this all turns out to be fact, that would explain why Hillary gave up the White House bid, and is apparently deciding to never pursue it. Not as long as Obama is around. Politics ain’t pretty, but Huma is, and that was enough to make Hillary derail her own lifetime ambition. She’s now focusing on the Islamization of the United States.

What do you think? Any truth to the rumor?"

Pretty scary stuff!

China smells the coffee the US aint gonna cough up said...

AFP-Yahoo News:

"China ratings house says US defaulting: report

June 10, 2011

A Chinese ratings house has accused the United States of defaulting on its massive debt, state media said Friday, a day after Beijing urged Washington to put its fiscal house in order.

"In our opinion, the United States has already been defaulting," Guan Jianzhong, president of Dagong Global Credit Rating Co. Ltd., the only Chinese agency that gives sovereign ratings, was quoted by the Global Times saying.

Washington had already defaulted on its loans by allowing the dollar to weaken against other currencies -- eroding the wealth of creditors including China, Guan said.

Guan did not immediately respond to AFP requests for comment.

The US government will run out of room to spend more on August 2 unless Congress bumps up the borrowing limit beyond $14.29 trillion -- but Republicans are refusing to support such a move until a deficit cutting deal is reached.

Ratings agency Fitch on Wednesday joined Moody's and Standard & Poor's to warn the United States could lose its first-class credit rating if it fails to raise its debt ceiling to avoid defaulting on loans.

A downgrade could sharply raise US borrowing costs, worsening the country's already dire fiscal position, and send shock waves through the financial world, which has long considered US debt a benchmark among safe-haven investments.

China is by far the top holder of US debt and has in the past raised worries that the massive US stimulus effort launched to revive the economy would lead to mushrooming debt that erodes the value of the dollar and its Treasury holdings.

Beijing cut its holdings of US Treasury securities for the fifth month in a row to $1.145 trillion in March, down $9.2 billion from February and 2.6 percent less than October's peak of $1.175 trillion, US data showed last month.

Foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei on Thursday urged the United States to adopt "effective measures to improve its fiscal situation".

Dagong has made a name for itself by hitting out at its three Western rivals, saying they caused the financial crisis by failing to properly disclose risk.

The Chinese agency, which is trying to build an international profile, has given the United States and several other nations lower marks than they received from the the big three."

Boruch said...


PS wasn't necessary as those of us who are ahavas Yisroel without the credentialing (journal page) wouldn't haven't given your date a second thought - except the thought that you are in Eretz HaKodesh as a citizen.

Utopian or not Jews have been tasked with knowing their Master's wishes and following His will. That means each Jew. My tatte, a'lev hasholom, would give the following tochocha. "Where in the Torah does it say Hashem created Rabbis? Goanim? Rebbes? Rav's? Roshei Yeshivah? Give up? No doubt you will; because HKBH created ADAM and there is no greater goal than to be a mentsch. Realize that goal and you've realized the purpose of your creation." Arthur, aseh l'cho Rav - not Rabbi. We need to know who can shepard us along to realize our goals. We need to have the discernment required to make for ourselves a Rav. Even the words, each word requires reflection and study. The word Rav - what does it mean? An alef-beis rebbe, a morah haroah, a psychologist?
I read, with great distress in the Yated, a maaseh involving the Rav and Rav Kotler in the inyun of the ban on joining religious councils with non-observant and non-Jewish clergy. The Rav was not a co-signer of the ban. It states that he was very upset that the Rabbonim who signed didn't come to him and speak with him about signing, and that Rav Kotler thought the publicizing of the ban prior to speaking with the Rav was a disaster. I wonder if the issue was more along the lines of the Rav's great consternation in creating all these semicha holders and having no place for them to earn a parnossah. How many 1950 and 1960 YU musmachim were obtaining shtellars in conservative shuls? Hundreds. Could the Rav have signed and then sent his students off to conservative places too? I hold that the Rav was too great a man to put his own honor out there and decline to sign. There, the question comes up again - who is Rabbi? Why Rabbi? Like the Rav they can be simple teachers and that's what we need to reach our ultimate goal of serving HKBH. Simple teachers.

Leib Tropper said...

Nu nu, so Anthony Weenie can't control himself. What else is new? Amazing that even top Democrats are demanding he resign after he was caught contacting first a porno actress and now an underage girl in high school. Delaware Police showed up at the girl's house erev Shabbos to take her computer and phone to look for evidence of a crime and she was interviewed today by detectives. Democrats are supposed to be open minded so why are they hounding poor Anthony? He says he's checking into rehab. Maybe we can get him into South Fallsburg yeshiva.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone confirm the Forward report that the Skverrer Rebbe eats off gold utensils while most of his chassidim are aniyim?

There is a corrupt small time Rebbe who is himself a big admirer of the Skverrer. He lives in a very rich modern orthodox neighborhood so he can mooch loads of money off of people he holds in very low esteem. Not that he tells him he thinks they are shkutzim as that would hurt the bottom line.

Vos zogt UOJ? said...

Below is an excerpt from a recent classic UOJ post.

Just curious if the observers are well known personalities?:

To quote or rather paraphrase what one rather intelligent observer of the present scene said; " it was one guy, not an organization, not a fundraising campaign, and not a Convention, that brought the rabbi child sex-abuse issue to every Jewish (and gentile's) mouth at his own personal expense."

"Now", he says, "you may not like the way he did it, but he got it done, when every person initially said he was out of his mind."

And to quote another detractor of mine - "what we needed was one huge mechutzaf to break the status quo, we got one with huge credibility".

Anonymous said...

I think Boruch is confusing two different episodes. Rav Soloveitchik did sign the issur against the transdenominational Synagogue Council but did not sign against interfaith dialog.

And what the heck does this mean?:

"Could the Rav have signed and then sent his students off to conservative places too? I hold that the Rav was too great a man to put his own honor out there and decline to sign."

Israel Belsky SHLITA said...

I agree with Tropper that Weiner has several redeeming midos and should be left alone


Even as top Democrats intensified pressure on him to resign, Representative Anthony D. Weiner of New York tried to power through the day on Thursday and suggest things were getting back to normal.

The scandal swirling around him has revealed a truth about his personality and his place in the Capitol: He does not care much about those he serves with, and they do not care too much about him.

But he also possesses what friends and associates say is a troubling trait: his tendency to take things just a little too far — whether on the House floor, where he badgered colleagues; on the ice in a hockey game, where he was a relentless trash talker; or in his office, where his demanding managerial style sometimes crossed the line into bullying.

As much as he seems to live for political combat, the congressman also is intensely invested in his recreational pursuits, especially the annual congressional baseball game between Democrats and Republicans. He suits up in a regulation Mets uniform, complete with stirrups, wears his cap backward and is the loudest of trash-talkers in the dugout.

After one of the games, Mr. Weiner had a black eye because he had collided with another player in the outfield. Mr. Weiner bragged about the episode so much that his staff members were left rolling their eyes for days afterward, with one wryly suggesting that he wanted to give Mr. Weiner another black eye.

Michelle Tendler said...

Mr. Weiner’s wife, Huma Abedin, has strongly encouraged him to try to remain in office. She is actively participating in discussions of his political future, speaking with him several times during the day.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

Vos zogt UOJ? said...
Below is an excerpt from a recent classic UOJ post.

Just curious if the observers are well known personalities?:


Both are respected by their groups I assume, and then we can pontificate on the meaning of well known.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

Can anyone confirm the Forward report that the Skverrer Rebbe eats off gold utensils while most of his chassidim are aniyim?


Twersky's intelligence is about as high as the fish that talked in Skver. If he's eating off gold utensils in a poverty stricken Square Town, all the more proof that he's a putz with a capital P.

Anonymous said...

Weiner is not Jewish, having been born to an Italian Catholic mother.

Advice for Rebbetzin Weiner and Rebbetzin Tropper said...

Vanity Fair Daily:

"Politics. Relationships.

Advice for Huma Abedin, Wife of Representative Anthony Weiner [also applies to Rebbetzin Leba Tropper]

by Emma Gilbey Keller
June 10, 2011

[photo: Rep. Anthony Weiner with his wife, Huma Abedin, at the Bloomberg & Vanity Fair White House Correspondents’s Dinner reception.]

If there were an award for Worst Week, Huma Abedin’s would be a definite contender. On Monday morning, her husband, Representative Anthony Weiner, told her he’s a lying tweet. On Monday afternoon, she endured his rambling, tearful admission of same to the masses. On Wednesday during the day, she left on a grueling Africa [actually it was Arab countries] trip with her boss, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. And on Wednesday evening, her pregnancy is disclosed—and not by her—to the world. On Thursday and Friday, this meant she was photographed wherever she went, with zoom lenses searching equally for her bump and her wedding ring. Not great for someone who claims to be intensely private.

So what should she do? We’re not here to weigh in on whether she should stay or go. In fact, we’re going to skate right past the fact that we don't know what she saw in the mean-mouthed, widely unpopular congressman in the first place. We’ve never been able to fathom the laws of attraction, and we haven't a clue what goes on in other people’s relationships. She says she’s staying. So we'll take it from there, and give her some tips to help make it work.

1. Cut back on the travel. You’re pregnant, for heaven’s sake! While other people have been looking at your wedding ring and your brave smile, we’ve been noticing the number and size of the bags you’ve been carrying. And you’re only in the first trimester. Lighten the load and stay home. Yes, we know the Africa trip must have seemed like the perfect opportunity to escape the sturm und drang of the spotlight, and we know that your job means being where your boss is—i.e., on the road. But, a.) those cameras haven’t stayed behind, and b.) like every other working mother on the planet, you’re going to have to start juggling.

The juggle starts now.

2. Spend some time with your husband. This is known as Work/Life Balance. You’ve been married for 11 months and one of your only public comments about your wedding was: “Our schedules are so busy that we don’t have time for a honeymoon!” Turns out, if ever there’d been a couple in need of a honeymoon, it was the two of you. Talking on the phone “several times a day” doesn’t cut it. You guys need some face time. Want to take a trip? Accompany Representative Weiner, not Secretary Clinton. Here’s a destination idea: the office of a good couple’s therapist.

3. Get him to shut up. I know—good luck with that. [Go for it Rebbetzin Tropper!!!!]

4. Remember you’re not Hillary. And that her experience is not yours. The irony of your being the Other White House Intern hasn’t been lost on us. While Bill picked Monica Lewinsky, Hillary got lucky with you. And we bet her advice and support have been great. But try to separate yourself a little—you’re both strong women, but you’re a different generation, in a different situation, and you don’t deserve to be lumped together in the Lonely Hearts Club.

5. Focus on the baby. Doesn’t that put everything in perspective? You’re going to be a mother! It is the most exciting identity change a woman can undergo. You’ve got some lovely things to look forward to—the first kick, some great sonograms, heartburn, insomnia—and those are all before your little one is born. You’re allowed to browse for onesies and blankies online. You’re expected to go to all the parenting Web sites and bulletin boards to chart and discuss your symptoms. On the Internet—unlike your husband—no one will know who you are."

Gedolim of Democrats Moetzes call for Weiner to RESIGN shtelle cite example of calls by Monsey Rabbinate for Tropper to resign over sexploits said...

The Republic/Associated Press:

"Rep. Chris Van Hollen calls for Anthony Weiner's immediate resignation from Congress

June 11, 2011

WASHINGTON — Rep. Chris Van Hollen is calling for the immediate resignation of House colleague Anthony Weiner.

Hollen, a Maryland Democrat and the ranking member of the House Budget Committee, said in a statement Saturday that Weiner's "repeated violation of the public trust is unacceptable." He says Weiner should leave Congress immediately.

His statement echoed similar resignation calls Saturday from House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the party chairwoman.

Weiner has admitted sending several women sexually suggestive and explicit Internet messages. A teenage girl from Delaware was interviewed by police Friday about online contact she had with Weiner, a New York Democrat. Weiner said his communication with the girl was neither indecent nor explicit, and police say they have finished their investigation."

Like Tropper, he was maybe only trying to "mekarev" her or perhaps offer her a freebie "conversion" through EJF.

Skver Mafia 9 said...

CBS News New York:

"New Square Arson Victim Blames Attack On Community’s Religious Intolerance

June 8, 2011

NEW SQUARE, N.Y. (CBS 2) — After being the victim of a frightening arson attack, New Square resident Aron Rottenberg spoke from his hospital bed in an interview on May 29 exclusively obtained by CBS 2.

[photo: New Square resident Aron Rottenberg, 43, was hospitalized with burns to 50 percent of his body after an attack apparently sparked by a religious dispute.]

In the interview conducted with an investigator working for his lawyer one week after the May 22 attack, Rottenberg said he blames the leaders of a Hasidic sect for creating the intolerant atmosphere that led to his injuries.

“We smelled gas – terrible bad odor of gas,” he said.

Rottenberg talked about the attack on his home that left him burned over half of his body. He also described how he tackled the masked intruder behind his home.

“Actually, when I jumped at him, this was my first goal — to help uncover his face to see who the perpetrator is,” Rottenberg said. “But because we burst into flames, I couldn’t continue. I had to save my life.”

Rotteberg is a dissident in a community that values conformity. The Hasidic Skver sect under Grand Rebbe David Twersky controls the village of New Square, and Rottenberg described his act of defiance.

Rotteberg said he was expelled from the sect for praying outside the community — namely walking a mile on the sabbath to the Freidwald Center to pray with sick and elderly Jews living there. Because he can read directly from the Torah, he is qualified to lead prayers.

“I’m going to pray outside New Square, to pray with the elderly and the sick,” he said.

Twersky was apparently upset with the practice and issued a public order forbidding residents to pray outside New Square. When Rottenburg refused to comply, he says a campaign of harassment ensued that culminated with the arson attack.

Rottenberg said harassment followed his split with the rabbi, including the breaking of windows on his car and his home. It got so bad, in fact, that he installed infrared cameras to alert his family of danger.

The lights never came on at the property, and the arsonist – who was initially scared away – may have felt it was safe to return. That’s when, Rottenberg said, he came outside and hid behind a tree, then jumping the intruder and sparking an explosion of flame.

“We both started rolling on the ground. He ran away, I don’t know what happened to him, if somebody got water on him, I don’t know,” he said. “I started yelling to my son that I’m in flames”."

Chinese pride pushes for aircraft carriers forgetting the fate of Japan in WWII said...

BBC News:

"8 June 2011

Aircraft carrier symbol of China's naval ambitions

By Damian Grammaticas BBC News, Dalian

It is the most visible symbol of China's rising military power.

The giant, grey hulk of China's newest warship, 60,000 tonnes of steel, sits at a dockside in the port of Dalian, almost ready to set sail.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) has been reluctant to say anything about its first aircraft carrier as it has not yet entered service. But it must be the military's worst-kept secret. It is there for all to see, somewhat incongruously, right behind Dalian's Ikea superstore.

The huge carrier has been years in the making, and it is an unmistakeable sign of China's expanding military and its desire to project Chinese power further beyond its borders than ever before.

"An aircraft carrier is a symbol of the power of your navy," says General Xu Guangyu, who used to serve in the PLA's headquarters and is now retired.

"China should at least be on the same level as other permanent members of the UN Security Council who have carriers."

Gen Xu now advises China's government on its military modernisation programme. Seven nations currently operate carriers - it used to be eight, but the UK has just withdrawn its last one from service and will have to wait several years for a new one to be built.

"It's also a symbol of deterrence," adds Gen Xu, "It's like saying, 'Don't mess with me. Don't think you can bully me.' So it's normal for us to want a carrier. I actually think it's strange if China doesn't have one."

Dalian is not just a major naval base, it is a major commercial port too. Its docks curve around a huge bay. There is an oil refinery, quays for cargo, and the shipyards where giant cranes tower over the hulls of massive container vessels and tankers under construction.

"The development of our armed forces is connected with the development of our economy," says Gen Xu.

"In energy supplies and trade we now have interests that span the globe. There are vital shipping routes in Asia, the Indian Ocean, Africa, and both sides of the Pacific that we need to protect. So our military strength needs to match the range of our economic and diplomatic activity."

The carrier is a relatively old design and it was not built by China. It was constructed in the 1980s for the navy of the USSR. Named the Varyag, it was never completed. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the rusting hull of the Varyag sat in dockyards in Ukraine.

As other Soviet warships were cut up for scrap a Chinese company with links to the PLA bought the Varyag claiming it wanted to turn it into a floating casino in Macau. It took several years to finally tow it all the way round the world to China, where it was then taken to Dalian. Reports claim it will be named the Shi Lang, after the Chinese admiral who conquered Taiwan in the 17th Century.

The PLA is focusing on both the navy and the air force in its modernisation, having identified them as relatively weak. When it is launched, the carrier will mark a significant leap forward for China's navy.

Watching all this closely is the United States. For more than half a century, since the end of World War II, the US Navy has operated its carrier battle fleets unchallenged in Asia and the Pacific. The US has 11 carriers of its own."

Chinese pride pushes for aircraft carriers forgetting the fate of Japan in WWII said...

"Aircraft carrier symbol of China's naval ambitions

The US and China view each other's military programmes with suspicion. Many in the PLA believe America is trying to encircle it and prevent its rise.

America says China's military developments are opaque and shrouded in secrecy, its real intentions unclear.

"For the longest time China denied that they were going to pursue an aircraft carrier navy even trying to get the world to believe that the purchase of the first aircraft carrier from Ukraine was all about creating a new casino in one of their harbours," says Rick Fisher, a senior analyst at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, a think tank in Virginia, US.

"[It] is going to have aircraft comparable in capability to the recent fighters on American fighter decks in about two to three years time."

Shift of power

Some observers believe China wants to build up to four carriers of its own.

Mr Fisher, who has spent 20 years studying China's military, says it has big ambitions.

China's aircraft carrier is seen under construction in Dalian, Liaoning province (April 2011) (above) and on Google Maps (below)

The 300m (990ft) carrier, under construction in Dalian, is thought to be nearly finished

"The aircraft carrier is part of China's fulfilment of its 2004 historic mission that the People's Liberation Army will increasingly defend the Communist Party's interests outside of China," he says."

Chinese pride pushes for aircraft carriers forgetting the fate of Japan in WWII said...

"Aircraft carrier symbol of China's naval ambitions

"By the 2020s China wants a military that will be globally deployable and will be able to challenge American interests where they need to be challenged."

Last month the visit of Chen Bingde, the Chief of the General Staff of the PLA, to the Pentagon was trumpeted as an effort to improve long-strained military relations between the US and China.

US and Chinese military bands played together as Gen Chen was hosted in America.

He tried to allay American fears by saying China would never seek to match US military power. China, he said, is way behind America.

"This visit to America, I saw America's military power, I feel stunned, not only do we have no ability to challenge America, but also the American warships and aircraft, America's strategy, it's a real deterrent for us."

China's military is generally believed to be 20 years behind America's in its development. But in its rapid expansion, China is focusing on weapons designed to blunt US military power.

The PLA has invested heavily in submarines. It is believed to be close to deploying the world's first "carrier-killer" ballistic missile, designed to sink aircraft carriers while they are manoeuvring at sea up to 1,500km (930 miles) offshore, and it is building its own stealth fighter aircraft along with advanced carrier-based aircraft built from Russian designs.

All of these can target US bases, US ships and US carriers in Asia. They will make it much more dangerous for US carrier fleets to operate close to China's coast, pushing them out further offshore.

In any future conflict they could make it much harder for the US to operate as freely as it would like. That in turn opens up more room for China to flex its own military muscles in Asia.

Having an aircraft carrier will then enable China to project power further than it has before. So looking on with concern are Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, who all have territorial disputes with Beijing in the South China Sea.

And Taiwan, Korea and Japan that look to the US for their security may start to question how much America can really protect them in future. This may, one day, undermine US security guarantees and its influence in the region.

There is much work to do before China's aircraft carriers become a potent force. But, sitting in the port in Dalian, the carrier is a clear sign of China's naval ambitions and the shift of power that is likely to bring."

Tropper gives advice about DIFFICULT TEENS no joke said...

If only the former rabbi Leib Tropper would listen to the "advice" he is still giving out on his nutty "כבוד התורה" blog:

"Sunday, May 29, 2011

Difficult Teens

The popular magazine, world of psychology, shares some important tips for teens in depression.

1. Find the right doctor or therapist. [Tropper should have done that in kindergarten, besides Tropper preaches against psychology so this is just another load of hypocrisy from the big mouth]
2. A proper and definite diagnosis. [Easy. Tropper is a megalomaniacal psychopath and sociopath with weird sexual addictions and fixations. Tropper has been officially classified as the "menuval shebemenuvalim" by leading Jerusalem rabbis]
3. Stay away from liquor. [and women, and easy money, and cultishness]
4. Exercise. [fat beer belly Tropper loves to joke]
5. Never avoid asking for help. [especially for $$$$$$ from dumb gullible billionaires]
6. Notice your negative thoughts. [funny. When was the last time Tropper had a positive thought?]

To be cont'd..." [you betcha]

Boruch said...

To Anonymous 06-12-11 1:16 a.m. =

The article in the Yated regarding Manos Bunim's interview implied that the Rov did not sign the ban against joining with non-observant leaders in matters concerning Judaism. If I was mistaken, I apologize.

Reading my comment, the Rav may not have signed such a ban as the graduates of YU (even then) were finding jobs at Conservative synagogues. The Rav was much more erudite than to sign such a ban and then bless the job choices of his students.

Fact Checker said...

Whatever you hold of the Skverrer's ethics, there is no question he is a highly intelligent pikayech. There are a number of Litvishe roshei yeshiva who are smart cookies themselves that go to him for aitzos.

Arthur said...

I hear what your'e saying about Rabonim,Rabbis,Roshei Yeshiva etc.of which we have a plethora. But my definition of "Rav", without going into the etymology of the word,is a manhig Yisroel.True manhigay Yisroel in our past who were not necessarily Roshei Yeshiva, Rabonim or otherwise,who were not parochial in their outlook and not only interested in their daled amos but were concerned with Klall Yisroel no matter what flavor Judaism one practiced,do not exist anymore.
The self appointed "Gedolai Yisroel" who the blind mice follow because they represent "Das Torah",a term that has become the recent rage but was never part of the Jewish lexicon, are myopic and and are only interested in their own perpetuation, are sadly what passes for "leadership" nowadays.
In essense we are a dor yosum and mitazpim liyishuah and desperately.

Anonymous said...

Amos Bunim, not Manos.

Whatever the article implied there is no question that Rav Soloveitchik signed with the osrim of the transdenominational Synagogue Council which spanned the entire orthodox leadership in America, Israel & Europe. This is why figures such as Abraham Halbfinger of the Vaad of New England are considered beyond the pale for ignoring their rebbe at YU in joining.

YU muschmachim who became Conservative pulpit rabbis were either following the heter of R' Yaakov Kaminetzky with certain conditions met for doing a type of kiruv or left the fold of orthodoxy by being mechalel Shabbos into the microphone, etc.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

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Arthur said...

I understand and empathize with your above view but without going into the etymology of the word, my definition of the word "Rav" is a true manhig Yisroel,not necessarily a Rabbi ,Rosh Yeshiva etc.of which we have a plethora.
A true manhig is one who is not parochial and myopic but is concerned with the welfare,both physical and spiritual,of every single Jew no matter what flavor or backround.But alas, no such being exists anymore.What we have are the self appointed "Gedolai Yisroel",the hucksters whose concern is perpetuating their own existence and don't or can't see beyond their own daled amos.And we,the blind mice,follow them because they represent the fairly new coined title,"Das Torah",a term that was never part of the Jewish lexicon.
We are truly a dor yosom and umitzapim leyishuah,the sooner the better.

Arthur said...

Please excuse the multiple posting.I assumed it did not go through the first time because I received a "error" notification when first posting.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

R' Yakov zt"l gave heterim for very select strong talmidim to take a Conservative shteller.

1 - They could never be matir driving to shul.

2 - R' Moshe's minimum mechitza had to go up ASAP and the contract would have to include that condition.

3 - The Talmud Torah had to phase out teachers that were mechallel Shabbos, and put in frum principals and teachers.

There were more, these were deal-breakers.

Arthur said...

A lone voice in the wilderness


Fact Checker said...

The Litvishe roshei yeshiva flocking to the Skverer do not go for any hocus pocus. The Skverer is a smart man who understands things. If he is corrupt that makes him all the more dangerous.

Incidentally, the Rebbe told Lakewood's Rav Salamon that the fish monger is a "baal dimyon".

Anonymous said...

UOJ, it would be wise to remove this post from years back. It is an insult. I actually checked if I accidently clicked through to Unorthodox Jew. Don't go down that slippery slope. Your credibility is at stake here.

"UOJ" - "The Un-Orthodox Jew" said...

The slippery slope is indeed very slippery, and getting slippier each passing day.

Mr. Checker:

John Edwards also understands things - like fleecing idiots out of their money!


John Edward McGee, Jr. (born October 19, 1969) is an American television personality, and a psychic medium by profession. He is best known for his TV shows Crossing Over with John Edward and John Edward Cross Country.

Born in Glen Cove, New York, Edward says he was convinced at a young age that he could become a psychic.[1] After writing his first book on the subject in 1998, Edward became a well-known and controversial figure in the United States through his shows broadcast on SCI FI Channel beginning in July 2000 and We TV since May 2006.

Rav JB Soloveitchik did NOT sign the 1956 ban said...

"Rav Soloveitchik signed with the osrim of the transdenominational Synagogue Council"

That is false!

Rav Soloveitchik REFUSED to signed with the others. And they were ALL American roshei yeshiva.

rav Soloveitchik had a "shitta" that "klapei chutz" it was muttar for Orthodox and non-Orthodox to work together.

If you are able to, get a copy of Agudath Israel's "The Struggle and the Splendor" put out by ArtScroll and you can see an exact copy of the original, in the chapter on "The Fiftees" on page 97.

Two Roshei Yeshiva from YU signed, Rav Lifshutz and Rav Zqaks, but NOT Rav Soloveitchik!!

The ONLY eleven signatories are:

-Avraham Joffen
-Avraham Kalmanowitz
-Ahron Kotler
-Gedalia Schorr
-David Lifshutz (Suvalker Rov and a Rosh Yeshivaat YU)
-Chaim Mordechai Katz
-Yaakov Kaminetsky
-Yaakov Yitzchok Halevi Ruderman
-Yitzchok Hutner
-Menachem Yosef Zachs (Radun Rosh Yeshiva and YU Rosh Yeshiva)
-Moshe Feinstein

Anonymous said...


He compared religious dialogue with Reform and Conservative leaders to dialogue between Pharisees and Karaites, considering it ridiculous.

In 1954 Soloveitchik issued a responsum on working with non-Orthodox Jews, Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews in the United States: Second article in a series on Responsa of Orthodox Judaism in the United States. The responsum recognized the leadership of non-Orthodox Jews in Jewish communal institutions (but not their rabbis in the Orthodox sense of the term), and concluded that participation with non-Orthodox Jews for political or welfare purposes is not only permissible, but obligatory.

The Haredi Council of Torah Sages of Agudath Yisroel countered with a ruling that such cooperation with non-Orthodox Jews was equivalent to endorsement of non-Orthodox Judaism, and thus was forbidden. In 1956 many Yeshiva leaders, including two rabbis from his own Yeshiva University, signed and issued a proclamation forbidding any rabbinical alumni of their yeshivot from joining with Reform or Conservative rabbis in professional organizations.
Soloveitchik declined to sign the proclamation, maintaining that there were areas, particularly those relating to problems that threatened all of Judaism, that required co-operation regardless of affiliation. His refusal emboldened other Modern Orthodox rabbis, and the Rabbinical Council of America and Union of Orthodox Congregations then joined the Synagogue Council of America, a group in which Orthodox, Reform and Conservative denominations worked together on common issues.

Anonymous said...

The Israeli & European gedolim signed their own letters making the same point against the Synagogue Council.