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Monday, February 03, 2014

This sinful cover-up occurred because of the erosion of a meaningful bais din process!

The UOJ Archives June 19, 2006

What has happened to good old-fashioned common sense? Most of us folk that make up the ranks of Orthodoxy crave the application of good judgment in our lives to the myriad of decisions that we are faced with every day. And when that judgment is applied to the welfare of our children, vigilance is the order of the day.

So how do we explain Kolko’s ability to stave off these persistent rumors that have dogged him for decades so effectively that he remained in the classroom until just a few weeks ago? We joked about our Cocoa Club and his Kolko Club. Rest assured, if these rumors reached the tender ears of a naïve thirteen year-old, they reached the hanhala of Torah Temimah as well. The previous failed bais din was more than enough for a thinking parent body to dispose of Yudi Kolko from the surroundings of children. Yet Kolko remained a rebbe, in class, enjoying unfettered access to young, vulnerable children entrusted to his care.

Lipa Margulies's crime was not only the lack of caring about your children, not only the pathetic trouncing of all that is sacred to mankind, but he literally spit in all the faces of his parent body, teachers, rebbes and the very foundation of Judaism; mentchlikeit. We were designated by God to set an example to the Nations of the world....oh what have we permitted to be done to us by one evil man?

Consider how this case would have played out if Torah Temimah were a public school. A complaint gets filed with the Board of Ed, and before an inquiry is conducted, Kolko is at the very least, removed from the classroom. Aren’t we supposed to be the smart ones?

Much of the blame lies in the basic human nature of people. We don’t want to believe that rabbis commit sins of moral turpitude. Nor do we want to find ourselves in the unenviable position of being betrayed by those we hope to admire and strive to emulate. It’s so much easier to shove aside the accuser because the alternative, acceptance, reflects so harshly on all of us, both as individuals and as a community. Had this gone on for a few months, or a year, perhaps such reason could be applied to the Torah Temimah hanhala.

But the sheer persistence of these rumors renders Marguiles and his minions absolutely responsible, as if they were in the room with Kolko b’shaas mayseh. Think for a moment what thirty years is. There is simply no excuse for not removing Kolko sooner. Sofek deorysah lchumrah should have been reason enough.

Ultimately, this cover-up may have occurred for no other reason than because it could. With the erosion of any sort of meaningful beis din process, until someone realized that catch phrases like “mesirah” and “rechilus” were just a smoke screen to pervert the truth and disguise the reality, there really is no hierarchy of accountability existing in Orthodoxy today. In fact, it’s become a joke. You don’t like a psak, buy another. For every rav that will tell you “no,” two more will not only tell you “yes” but tell you why the first rav is a lunatic. Sad, but the truth many times is.

I had a rebbe that once told me that mastering the four volumes of Shulchan Aruch were not nearly as important as the fifth – common sense. Our leaders, by failing to act sooner, have abrogated their thrones. We the people are on to them, and it will take more than reference to an obscure tosfos to regain our respect. There are more Kolkos out there. Let’s see who strives to fill the void at the uppermost echelons of Orthodoxy and exposes them.

Turning to the particulars of the case for a moment, let me state unequivocally that I believe David Framowitz. Common sense again dictates that a middle-aged man with a family doesn’t just come out of nowhere and make something like this up. And time does not dull every memory. I would venture that Framowitz remembers what happened to him in that old Plymouth like it was yesterday.

Indeed, Kolko’s belated removal from the classroom will reverberate through the Orthodox world the way Kennedy’s assassination changed the course of American history, and Framowitz is our Zapruder.

What Kolko’s removal says, regardless of the ultimate outcome of this case, to every Jew who has distorted our holy Torah to hide his behavior, to every Jew that fails to control the inclinations that drive them to sin at another’s expense, is that your days are numbered. We may take our licks for violating the laws of lashon harah. We may resort to profanity and less than sophisticated behavior. But we will not continue to enable those that prey on the weak by ignoring their cry. We will bring victims rights to the fore by aggressively pursuing those that prey on them.

If Orthodox "leaders" won’t say it, then the Orthodox will say to our so called leaders zero tolerance. If we are going to call ourselves the am hanivchar, then we are going to start acting like the am hanivchar.

We will start reforming the yeshiva system as the next phase of our crusade, as we know full well that this would never have happened in a public school. Mitoch shelo lishmah, bah lishmah. The fact that Torah Temimah put Kolko “on leave” only after the suits were filed is pathetic and shamefully irrelevant at this point. What is highly relevant is that UOJ has demonstrated that late is better than never!

What remains to be done immediately, is to have Lipa Margulies removed from this yeshiva if it wants to recapture the name of a makom Torah. There is no room among our arba koslei hayeshiva for an evil opportunist to be present.

The leadership of the Jewish people must do just that; lead..... or the rishaim among our community will view this as just another story that they think will go away in time.

It will not; the lawsuit against Torah Temimah will be ongoing, making headlines in the national and international media.

Ridding our community of Lipa Margulies is not optional, it is no less than a chiyuv D'oraisa...ubeartah hara m'kirbechaw.

102 comments:

Anonymous idiot said...

Under the current situation with no Sanhedrin, there is really no Beit Din which can mete out punishment. Furthermore, if Kolko sexually abused boys by masturbating them or masturbating on them, I don't think that there is any punishment that Beit Din min HaTorah would mete out even if fully empowered.

This pretty much means that the proper way to deal with him (assuming that it is all true)is to remove him from his teaching position and from any position having to do with children, and possibly totally ostracising him from the Jewish community. If there are monetary damages, they should be sought in Beit Din. If he will not appear in Beit Din, the beit Din may authorize turning to the civil courts.

If he had anal intercourse with males, either children or adults, he is liable for the supreme punishment, but except for "orthorev" I have not seen anyone allege this.

Jail is not a punishment in Beit Din or promulgated or advocated or recognized by the Torah.

In jail, he might be killed and/or raped. You might say that the latter is mida c'neged mida, but I don't think that al pi Torah you are allowed to put someone in that position.

If you really believe that he has a din of rodeph (and remember that a rodeph is not someone who has done it, but someone who is on his way to do it), then do the proper thing.

Someone who can do so and does not is shirking his responsibility, and everything that he writes here is merely hot air.

If he is a rodeph, deal with it. If he is not, shut up.

As a general issue on this forum:

UOJ is doing something impportant in hopefully removing child abusers from positions in the Jewish community in which they have access to children. Ranting against orthodoxy, against kollels, against large families, against rabbis who don't posken the way you do, etc. really detract from that important task.

Orthodox Jews are not necessarily allcrazy, hareidi Jews are not necessarily all crazy and may or may not even have a higher percentage of crazy people than any other group.

Rabbis aren't all necessarily crazy or evil, even when they concern themselves with minutiae of the law, and even when they don't posken the way you want them to.

If someone thinks that hareidim and other orthodox Jews are crazy, and they have lots of children this should not affect your child's tuition, because if thinking this, you send your kids to orthodox or hareidi schools, then you are crazy.

As for the Aron Twersky, how exactly was he involved with the coverup until now, and what did he do which is cause for him to lose his license. And if you mean his law license - come on - since when have lawyers been required to be good or honest people. Who hires an honest lawyer?


As for Rabbi Scheinberg - who spoke with him and exactly what did he say?

He may have said that if an abuser did not actually engage in anal intercourse, you have no monetary case against him, or he may have said not to go to the police or the secular courts, but I do believe that he said that someone who touched the boys genitals should be retained as a teacher or even given sh'lishi. That's life in the world of crazy.

You may disagree and think that it is a mitzvah to go to the police or the secular tort system, but you may not be coming from a Torah perspective.

The most important thing is stopping it from happening in the future. This may be best accomplished by publicity coupled with total herem on the perpetrator. The secondary goal of making amends to past victims must be done in a Torah context.

If you think that all of the bottei din are corrupt, create new ones which pay salaries to the dayonim so that they are not dependent on litigants for money. Eliminate the system of corrupt to'anim. Have strict rules about not taking cases when the dayan knows the litigant.

If someone wishes to withdraw from the Torah community because of these issues or others, he may do so, but i do look at a mechallel Shabbes as better than a man who abuses little boys in a manner which does not include anal intercourse.

As for involving the police, there are two major cases in which we can kill someone bizman hazeh, without recourse to Beit Din - moser and rodeph. If he is a rodeph, follow the halacha.
Get rid of him - from the schools, from the camps, from the children's lives, make sure it doesn't happen again, and then shut up.

Anonymous said...

Sources tell me that enrollment at YTT for next year is way, way down.

boog said...

Common sense , indeed.

How true about David Framowitz. Taking the analogy to Kennedy one step further: Framowitz is a true Profile in Courage. It took tremendous courage for him to step forward.

Yes absolutely YASSER (margo) KOACH has to go; IMO, so do other people in YTT who are part of the current Hanhalah and decided to be a silent lamb.

The only way to restore YTT's credibility is to make a clean sweep and bring in a brand new team.

Anonymous said...

THE BIG COUNTDOWN BEGINS!!!!!!!!!

A.M. Leizerowitz of Gerrer Mesivta fame is back in the US to pack his bags (and a few kids he hadn't taken earlier)and high tail out of Boro Park. Those bastards runing Ger think this will put an end to the egg they have been getting on the face lately. WRONG WRONG WRONG! You dumped AML cause of the pressure from UOJ and the other bad publicity you were threatened with. Until the public apologies go out to all the boys u defamed publicly for complaining about the molestation and sodomy And until u provide for the counseling and therapy of the many victims AND until u clean out the rest of the molesters, you are damned if u do react to pressure and damned even more if u don't. No amount of Rabbinical wealth and power or politics will silence the victims and those organizing to avenge the hurt and suffering. Don't believe me! Try Us if u dare! Were going for the jugular while the schools and mechanchim go for the private parts. U filthy slime balls, with gods help we will get u in this world and Hashem will get u when u rot away in hell.

A greiving parent of a victim of sexual molestation.

P.S. U should of stopped this stuff way back when "outsiders" approached u about Mondrowitz. Pay day is a cometh! But no, u shitheads are too busy pushing kosher cellphones to keep folks from checking what is being posted here on UOJ about Ger and the likes.

BANISH ORTHOREV said...

UOJ,

I would suggest that you stop posting Orthorev's comments, as allowing him to post strains your credibility, and, I believe, will ultimately prevent you from accomplishing your goal(s).

Orthorev falls into one of two categories, both of which warrant that he be banished from this blog; (1) he is a heretic and a kofer, or (2) he craves attention so much, such that he is at the very least indifferent to what he says or does to get that attention.

Think about it.

All those that agree that Orthorev should no longer be allowed to post, kindly include the words "BANISH ORTHOREV" in your message.

Anonymous said...

Dearest UOJ,

Thanx for your great work on behalf of the little ones we presumably so love.


Someone mentioned a while ago about putting pressure on the AARTS team that licenses orthodox higher education institutiones as certified colleges. They are comprised of professional unaffiliated laymen working side by side with the rabbis. Maybe they can get somewhere with these f--kin morons by threatening them in the wallet with removing thier endorsement. Did u look into this?

BP bais din said...

if u dont like ortho then open up your own blog!!

Frum Judge said...

All of Leizerowitz's victims should band together and go to the police and the D.A.
If an arrest warrant is issued, Leizerowitz will not be able to leave the country.
Then, file yourselves a civil lawsuit against the Gerrer Rebbe personally and the Gerrer institutions.

Anonymous said...

AARTS has noyhing to do withelementry schools its for higher education and therefore is not connected to these schools so it wont help BAN ORTHOREV

OrthoRev said...

You actually took the time to post the same comment again- how undeniably pathetic.

Please get a life and stop whining like a girl.

www.FrumIsAMentalDisorder.com

www.BanishOrthoRevForgotToTakeHisBirthControlHormonePills.com

I remain,
OrthoRev.

P.S. To everyone else- thanks for the support.

OrthoRev said...

Idiot:

So you say that frum/haredi are not crazy..then you say that..

“If he was analy raped only then should he get 'supreme' punishment but…if he just 'regular' molested (thereby destroying someone life) he shouldn't go to jail.. since he might get raped there”

Is this rationale sane thinking?

Then.. “unless we actually go an 'deal with it' we can’t speak about him being a rodef” ?? Why is that?

Additionally, since UOJ has dealt with child abuse we can’t deal speak with other issues perculiar to orthodoxy?

Lastly, how many millions of times does it have to be posted EXACTLY what Schienberg said??


OrthoRev

BAN BANISH ORTHOREV said...

UOJ;

This Ban OrthoRev crap is so whiny and babyish, if they can't deal with a post go to another damn site.

OrthoRev; I think you got some real smarts and a way to get people to think.

BAN "BANISH ORTHOREV"

Neandershort said...

I lost respect for the haredi Rabbinic establishment when my sister waited years for a get, while my rasha ex-brother-in-law (with kohanim like that no wonder we don't have a bet mikdash), with a seruv issued against him, continued to enjoy status in his Boro Park community. There should have been no place for him to hang his black hat. Slifkingate was the last straw. Ya'akov Perlow and Pinhas Scheinberg, implicated in the YTT scandal, also signed on to the Slifkin ban. I have no use for any of that scum!
Are we going to hear from any victims recent enough to fall within the statute of limitations and enable those responsible to be criminally charged? Memories do fade over time; there was real concern in 1961 that Eichmann's victims' memories would be too stale for a court to convict him. Luckily that was not the case, but only 16 years had passed. If Eichmann had been caught in 2006 would there be enough evidence to convict?
We were told that charges would be filed and the story would break in the secular media by last Thursday. That did not happen. When will it? Deep dark secrets cannot stand the light of day.

tamar rotem said...

Beaten, silent and forgiving

By Tamar Rotem

What can I do? Praise God. What suffering, what torment I went through. The tears I shed. It's impossible to tell the whole story. But you remember. You remember everything. The shouts, the blows, the curses, the threats. I only wish that evil Jews should go through everything I did. All day. He never gave me a minute's rest."

Listening to this story, one wonders how the person telling it can praise God. But maybe that is what battered ultra-Orthodox women do: remain silent, reconcile themselves, smooth things over and, above all, forgive. Not only their husbands, but God, too.

She is in her forties. The more the violence increased, the more religiously strict the family became. The more she and other family members were subjected to the husband's assaults and terror, the more pictures of rabbis were hung on the walls. She wears black and a crimson head-covering. A fine face, strong features, olive skin stretched across high cheekbones.

"It's a miracle that no marks are visible," she says, rubbing the sensitive area, a souvenir of one of her husband's many attacks, this one five years ago.


It happened on Shabbat eve: Her husband smashed her face against the floor. Her forehead split open to the temples and blood flowed freely, to the terrified screams of the children.

"After the Kiddush he sat at the table," she recalls. "I was standing by the sink, as usual, busy arranging the food. He asked for something and I guess I didn't hear him well, or didn't understand what he wanted. What does it matter? Suddenly I'm on the floor. I was living my life in constant fear. You don't know where the next blow will come from, when he will drag you by the hair through the house. I got used to it. I stopped thinking that he would murder me, like I did at first."

Her husband has not been in their house for a few months. He was forbidden from returning in the wake of an injunction issued by the Family Affairs Court. Since then he has disappeared from her life and she is no longer afraid of him. But she has new troubles. She has a terminal disease and is certain that it was brought on by the suffering and the ordeals she went through - because she was a victim and "took everything to heart," as she puts it. On the other hand, the disease is atonement for sins. Her husband was exultant when he heard that she was sick. But even now, you can hardly hear a bad word about him from her.

After that incident, when the blood streamed from her face, she did not consider calling the police or taking refuge in a shelter for battered women. The social worker who worked with the family heard about the assault a few days later and called the police, without her knowledge. She was taken by surprise when the officers arrived, she recalls, and she sent them packing.

Battered women keep their lot a secret in every society, but in the ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) society the conspiracy of silence surrounding violence in the family is stronger, because marriage is a sacred institution and Haredim recoil from dissolving it. Seeking help from therapeutic agencies outside the community is often looked on as betrayal. Dirty laundry is not hung outside.

"I didn't think it was our way - to go to the police," she says. "I did not file a complaint. I told the police it was nothing."

Despite the threats to her life, she says she never went to a shelter for battered women, because of the shame. "I have grown-up children. I did not want them or their friends to know that I was in a place like that. I didn't want the neighbors to know." Yet the neighbors heard and saw and knew everything - and even testified on her behalf in court.

She lives in a distressed Haredi neighborhood, with long, train-like buildings, laundry hanging out on the front balconies and strollers piled up at the entrances. A scene of general neglect. The apartments are small and cramped. Nothing can be hidden here. The walls are thin. You can hear a chair being moved in the adjacent apartment, so how could people not hear plates being hurled against the wall?

"He broke all my dishes. If he wanted something and I didn't want to give him, then right away, smash - one dish and another and another," she relates.

She married at age 20, a pretty young woman from a religious home. Her husband grew up in what she calls a masorti (traditional) home. When they moved into one of the Haredi areas, they assumed the proper look: He wore a black skullcap and grew a beard. She wore stockings and kept her hair totally hidden. She removed the television set from the house. She registered the girls in the Haredi Beit Yaakov school. But all these trappings of righteousness did not stop the husband from using his wife as a punching bag. He never worked or provided for the family. She worked as a cleaning lady in yeshivas.

Immediately after they were married she became pregnant and at the same time got her first slap. Her memories of high holidays and the births of her children are bound up with violence. A number of events occurred around the Shabbat table.

For years she disappeared from home during some of the holidays. "The children," she says, "trembled with fear. When I was at home I couldn't leave them for a second. He would threaten and hit them."

Her husband would also not allow her relatives to visit. There were times when she did not have money to buy food for the children, and her father would come with full baskets and leave them outside, next to the door. He would knock on the door quietly with his fingernails, as a sign, so that the husband would not hear.

Rabbinic salvation

As a Haredi woman, she never stopped believing that the rabbis would be her salvation, but in vain. Years ago she opened a file in the rabbinic court, in the hope of getting a divorce. She spent endless days attending exhausting deliberations, at the end of which the judges hesitated to instruct her husband to grant her a divorce. In the end, she says, they always sent her to rabbis who were supposed to make decisions about her.

"Finally I stopped going to the hearings. I saw that they were not making a decision and were not interested in helping me. The judges and the rabbis simply do not understand what a woman like me is going through."

It goes without saying that she did not get the rabbis' authorization to use contraceptives, with the result that more children were born to the violence-ridden family.

In 1999 the court did, however, make a rare decision: It ordered the husband to stay away from the house for a few months. This was after her mother died and her husband did not let her observe the mourning customs. "He brought a darbuka to the house and pounded on it 23 hours a day. He turned on the radio at full volume, and this when it was forbidden for me to listen to music," she relates.

The rabbis, then, acted only when they had the impression that the husband was interfering with his wife's attempts to uphold halakha (Jewish religious law). But even this decision was marked by indecisiveness: The husband had to keep away only during the day, from 7:30 A.M. until 10 P.M., and only on weekdays. On Shabbat he was allowed to be at home. "At night and on Shabbat he continued to torture me," she says.

Two years later, after the attack in which her face was injured, the court acceded to her request to order her husband to stay away from the house altogether. But this did not help because the decision was temporary and the husband did not obey it. She was certain that after years of pleading, of court deliberations and neighbors' testimonies about the acts of violence, she would be allowed to get a divorce. In one of the hearings at this time, such a decision appeared to be imminent: A date was set for a hearing in which the husband would be ordered to give her a divorce.

"I was certain that this was the end of my suffering. But when I went back to the court they again sent me to some rabbi and threw the decision on him." That rabbi, she adds, did not have the impression that her suffering had reached its full measure. "There is no need to break up the home over this," he told her.

The magic incantation "domestic harmony" was uttered again and the routine of beatings and threats continued unabated.

It was after she fell ill that she found the inner strength to act on her own and went to Bat Hamelech, an association that helps religious women in distress. She relates that when she returned home from the hospital after surgery, physically and mentally exhausted, her husband said he should say the "Hallel" prayer for her approaching death. He made fun of her appearance, her skeletal body, and when she read Psalms in bed for her recovery he told her it wouldn't help. He also kept her family away.

"This is your punishment!" he screamed. "You are paying for everything you have done to me."

When he conveyed his message to the neighbors and everyone knew what was going on, she went to the Family Affairs Court and obtained a permanent restraining order keeping him from the house.

Anonymous said...

I just received an email from the lawyer Elliot Pasik who was quoted in the Jewish Week article from the previous week about the bill that will let New York yeshivas and all nonpublic schools to fingerprint their employees and do criminal history background checks. This is potentially good news, because the bill is probably going to pass the NYS Senate on Wednesday, and also in the Assembly, because its being cosponsored by Shelly Silver, the Speaker, and another Assemblyman, Harvey Weisenberg. We're being asked to send emails to certain state Assemblymen and state Senators, to make sure the bill gets to both the Assembly and Senate floors for a vote. The legislature session ends THURSDAY, so time is of the essence my friends. Pasik sounds a little concerned that the bill may be stuck in some committee where the lawyer staffers are parsing words.

Please send supportive emails, asking these state assemblymen and senators to do everything they can to bring the nonpublic school employee background check bill to a floor vote, and then, obviously, to vote in favor. It is known by numbers A. 11399 and S. 07381.

1.Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver:
speaker@assembly.state.ny.us;

2.Assemblyman Harvey Weisenberg:
weisenh@assembly.state.ny.us;

3.Senator Dean Skelos:
skelos@senate.state.ny.us;

4.Your own local Assembly member and State Senator- you can obtain their names and email addresses from the websites of the NYS Assembly and Senate.

The lawyer suggests at least the following language in your emails: "Please support the nonpublic school employee background check bill. Please bring the bill to a vote on the Assembly and Senate floors. The bill numbers are A.11399 and S.07381. Thank you for all the work you have done on this important measure."

For sure, this is a big mitzvah.

Anonymous said...

"AARTS has noyhing to do withelementry schools its for higher education and therefore is not connected to these schools so it wont help"

WRONG! YTT, YOB & Ger Mesifta are either wholly high schools and are accredited by the above or have both elementary & high schools.

orthorevprotector said...

for any of you people who spend more then five seconds a day, either bothered by the identity of orthorev or by the "villness" of his posts may i ask you a question? What the hell is your issue, why is he getting under your skin so much? are you all of a sudden out to protect the kovod shamoyim? Or could it be that his message is getting under your skin because you somewhat [as hard as it is to admit] agree with him, and you are personally unable to integrate having such feelings?
Anyways to all of you anti orthorev people out there, i am truly jealous of your chelek in oilam habah, as you are one to truly look up to, the way you protect the kavod of the aibeshter is truly inspiring.

Tzedek Tzedek Tirdof said...

Kudos UOJ. I felt that this was a cogent and logical post and that your point was very clear. I really do disaprove of the reffering to Rabbi's by derisive nicknames and the like or the use of vulagirty in association with them (or for that matter any other human being) becuase it is inappropriate. I am hwoever reffering to comments made in the past and I thank you for acknowledging that this was done. I believe personally that in order to rise to a just cause one must indeed try to be as just as possible. People scream rechilus when the Kolko stuff was going on when it is unwarranted but when real rechilus is going on it must be mentioned. I commend your desire and actions in having moved against someone who has commited an abominable act in Yisrael and even moreso in the education system. Nevertheless deriding Kolko or his superior is inappropriate let us be the men and them the children. They failed in responsibility we should not. I do believe that the education system is in need for a huge overhaul in more way than one. Hopefully this can be acheived. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when people disagree they can do so civily and not like animals throwing out expletives at one another, or making up nicknames that are intended for condescension. In all I'm glad to see that many desire to see the right thing done but when we are pusuing to do the right thing let us do it justly. This is the very meaning of Tzedek Tzedek Tirdof. In any event common sense was indeed absent during this whole debacle concerning Kolko, and lets put it this way: Rabbis tell there students not to even look at women, let alone touch them as it will incite sexual desire, wouldn't it follow logically then that Kolko when engaing in this activity would be doing the same thing? My point is that if what is natural for most humans has certain stringencies surely that which will lead to a greater sin (homosexual activity) to have equal if not stricter regulations such as "not molesting children". I'm vexed at how common sense was indeed lost and this scenario is attempting to give the benefit of the doubt. Also to the one who called him/herself "Anonymous idiot" the issue is not what Kolko is or isn't Chayev its why didn't the System protect the children,why was there no recourse in a Beis Din? That is the question and UOJ clarified certain things.
Thanks

Anonymous said...

Well, YTT has made no indication that Margo is leaving, so what's going to happen? How are we going to prevent these bums from continuing their work?

Anonymous said...

The odds of YTT reopening next year are smaller than a Bagel Hole bagel.

Veiner Ruv said...

What made Fritz Klein, a Viener kid, turn out this way?


http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=900

Anonymous said...

Anonymus Idiot is mistaken. Clearly, he has never learned mishnayos sanhedrin. There are plenty of offences for which beis din can give jail time.

Anonymous said...

The only time Halacha imposes jail time is in the event someone injures another person and he may die as a result of the injury - we jail him until it is clear if we can charge him with murder. There is not one other instance where you will find jail in any Mishna. Let us know just some of the "plenty of offences".

Anonymous said...

Where the heck are the comments? Come on, UOJ, this site gets me through my days at work.

help yeshiva boys said...

anyone abused in fallsburg in a sexual way please email

helpyeshivaboys@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

Anyone know anything about a supposed Child Molestor in Toras Moshe?

I heard some innuando that an individual abused children as a bochur and is now some sort of Rebbi there?

Any of these stories confirmed or just rumor?

Any info would be helpful, I'm thinking/planning on sending my son next zman.

Thank You

Anonymous said...

A Koshe Delight beef burger would be the better analogy

Sanhedrin 81:B said...

The only time Halacha imposes jail time is in the event someone injures another person and he may die as a result of the injury - we jail him until it is clear if we can charge him with murder. There is not one other instance where you will find jail in any Mishna. Let us know just some of the "plenty of offences".
______________________________________________________________
Not so. Under Sanhedrin both Kolko and Margulies would be in prison until they died.

Sanhedrin jailed chronic offenders or those who committed crimes and could not be punished within the system due to technicalities.

The prison cell was a narrow vaulted room the height of a man. The prisoner would be fed bread and water until his bowels shrunk at which point he was fed barley until his stomach burst.

Sanhedrin would have placed Kolko and Margulies, both of whom play our system in order to get away with heinous crimes, in prison in order to protect society.

In the absence of Sanhedrin it is our duty to assure the secular authorities protect society from these two evil men.

chesky sklarz said...

Anyone that R' Abba sat on in Fallsburg, please contact your nearest kosher pancake house.

Cyrk Gourmet Desert, Monsey Restaurant
382 Route 59
Monsey, NY
845-368-4528

Late Night With Ginzburg said...

Anybody have information on Ginzburg in Waterbury?
The guy was thrown out of Fallsburg and Kaufman picked him up.

Moishe Koplowitz said...

Why was Ginzburg thrown out of Fallsburg?

Tzedek Tzedek Tirdof said...

Thanks Sanhedrin 81:b. I think about it this way, If we believe that the system is divinely established then there indeed must be recourse for actions like pedophilia. Why? Because it is an abominable sexual act and IMO if lesbianism is covered under "do not do what the eqyptians did" then this surely is as the egyptians engaged in all sorts of sexual depravity.

Yankel Pollak said...

A South Fallsburg scandal ? I'll have to get my brother Yehuda on the case. Or I'll do my own sleuthing and give a briefing to the Lakewood roshei yeshiva at breakfast along with all the other latest dirt I just dug up.

Anonymous said...

To UOJ and all the other posters who have been affected by a child molester in a Yeshiva or otherwise Jewish environment. There is something here I don't understand and I think it has to do with changes over the years. Twenty years ago you guys went to Yeshiva and if something like this happened you would just stand by or your parents would stand by in shock and dismay at the whole thing. The parents would talk to a rav or speak to the hanholas Yeshiva and hope they would be able to resolve the issue. I can tell you one thing if Chas vesholem something were to happen to my son who as a side point attends YTT and I found out or even smelled a problem. I would not go to the police nor would I approach anyone in the Yeshiva. I would take a bat, crowbar or any other type of blunt object along with two of my friends and bash the MotherF*&&ers face in. I would not kill the individual, but rest assured the rest of his days would be all painful. This is the one thing I don't get with you people, go to the police go to this one and that one. You want something done right DO IT YOURSELF.

Anonymous said...

What's with all the BS
about a "Prominent" this or
that .
Why wont anyone put their
name on anything?
I for one am happy that Kolko
is removed,However I am a little
bit skeptical that there are really
"prominent" people writing these
screed's and not just one "UOJ"
posting.

Anonymous said...

I can tell you one thing if Chas vesholem something were to happen to my son who as a side point attends YTT and I found out or even smelled a problem. I would not go to the police nor would I approach anyone in the Yeshiva. I would take a bat, crowbar or any other type of blunt object along with two of my friends and bash the MotherF*&&ers face in.
__________________________________________

So, why is your son in TT?

Anonymous said...

What's happening with with the SOB in YOB? Any news , also on the Ger situation? And what about the TT situation? Why is that yeshiva still standing? Will it really continue business as usual? What message does this give our children? And the victims, nebach have to see that the entire community doesn't give a damn? Help!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Ultimately this sinful cover-up occurred because of the erosion of any sort of meaningful bais din process":

The punishment of cipah found in Sanhedrin 81b in the Mishnah is discussed in the Gemorra on 82b, and it is clear that this punishment is not a long jail term but a passive way of killing the person. "someone who hit and repeated Beit Din puts him in cipah - G-d made him patur (no punishment) and we're going to kill him!?"

That is why I did not mention it.

The classic din of rodeph is Reuvein is chasing Shim'on to kill him or reuvein is chasing Plonit (an eshet ish or other ervah) to rape her. Matzilin oto b'naphsho - we save his soul by killing him. If he has completed the act, he must be brought to beit din for punishment, the law of rodeph no longer applies. (Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpat 425:3).

In 425:1 The Rama says that we don't dan dini nephashot bizman hazeh, and we should put the person in Cherem, "but if the beit Din sees that the times need it or to correct/protect the situation, they can punish him as they wish .

Interestingly enough, if Reuven, the rodeph in this case kills the would be interventionist in order to save himself, then he is patur - he is not punished for that killing.

Furthermore, if it were possibly to stop the pursuer by something less than killing him and one killed him "behold he is a sedder of blood and is culpable of a death penalty but beit Din does not execute him". (Rambam Hilchoth Rotseach 1:13)

If he is a rodeph with intention to commit future mishcav zachar, you have a mitzvah to stop him either by cutting off a limb or other nonlethal method, or if no other way will do it, it is a mitzvah to stop him by .......(deleted by UOJ)

In regard to past actions, this does not apply. Any punishment for past activities must be done through Beith Din, and if our curent situation is that we do not have a Beith Din empowered to give out the appropriate punishment, see the Rama above, if necessary for the times, the Beith Din can still do it.

None of this has to do with going to goyim to seek punishment- either monetary or incarceration - which is not provided by the Torah. If Reuvein steals a sheep, he has to pay bak four sheep - but we don't judge fines such as this bizman hazeh. It is not allowed to seek this redress through the goyishe courts.

Stop him. I am only posting this as anonymous because it might be a crime to teach this halacha. If as a hora'ath sha'ah Beith Din decides to kill him to protect society, it may do so.

But if you think that you are saving Jewish society by going to goyishe authorities without the authorization of Beith Din, you are making a greivous error.

If you do not wish to follow the Torah, then you are not part of jewish society and can have nothing to do with saving it.

If you do wish to follow the Torah and find that all the institutions are corrupt, don't blame the Torah, start your own, noncorrupt schools, batei c'nesset, battei din and so on.

Neandershort said...

So South Fallsburg has problems with child molestation. Moron Rasha Ha-yeshiva Wachtfogel there signed on to the Slifkin ban. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser. . . .

Inyanei Sanhedrin said...

Kipa was meted out to those that received malkus 5 times, so Kolko & Margo would not be put there, but Sanhedrin would put people in mishmar (jail) if there was sufficient reason to believe they are rotzchim but not enough criteria met to give them misa.

The Acharon R' Yaakov Culi brings down from various kadmonim that beis din has a recht for horaas shaa to give any kind of onesh they see fit. I believe he gave three examples that actually took place. A divorced woman that was mezaneh had her nose cut off. A married couple having tashmish in public were given misa. Someone riding a horse on Shabbos got the same fate.

You don't have to go to beis din for pedophiles and certain other cases. Avid Inish dina lenafshei.

Anonymous said...

I have to jump in here.

The shtick putz who has spent two long posts quoting how Assur it is to turn over someone who MOLESTED YOUR KID to the police, is a fool, a damned idiot fool.

G-d only help your kids, you idiot. It's a twisted, pseudo-halachic attitude like yours that has given Judaism its bad name over recent years.

Please crawl back into your hole, and pray to G-d to be given a few shreds of common sense. YOU HAVE NONE.

Anonymous said...

But if you think that you are saving Jewish society by going to goyishe authorities without the authorization of Beith Din, you are making a greivous error.
___________________________
You make the argument that we may be justified in ........ Kolko and Margulies but if we go to the secular authorities we relinquish our right to membership in the community of Torah Jews.

With all due respect, your position is the height of absurdity. Even without the Psak of Rav Elyashiv which orders us to go to the police, anyone who can reach your perverse conclusion from learning Gemara has no business learning without full time supervision.

WARNING: DON’T BE MEVATEL YOUR DAAS TO ABSURD PERVERSIONS OF HALACHA.

Gershon Ribner said...

Yankel Pollak,

You must be geting bored these days if you even have to justify your existence on UOJ's blog.

Tsedrayter said...

UOJ, can u please post the complete
text or a link of Rav Elyashiv's
Psak about the permissibility
of going directly to the police?

Anonymous said...

Ginzburg from fallsburg is a great guy, but didn't see eye to eye with Abba. Anyone who know Abba knows that it's possible. And anyway the mesivta in Fallsburg has around 4 kids in it. When he was offered the job in Waterbury he went for it, as anyone in his shoes would have done.

Harav Elyashiv said...

A ruling by Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv appears in Yeshurun, a compendium of articles on Halacha, in which the rabbi says it is permissible to hand over a child abuser to the American police. Elyashiv, considered the most important interpreter of Halacha by Ashkenazi Haredim, said that it was permitted to inform the government in cases in which, "It is clear that he has committed a foul deed, and that this [informing] constitutes a sort of repair of the world.

Anonymous said...

Today I saw volume 15 of the Haredi publication Yeshurun. It opens with an important and well-illustrated article by Dr Ezra Chwat and R Nissim Sabbato, on the draft of Maimonides' commentary to the Mishna, fragments of which are found in the Geniza.

It also includes a special section, titled Dam Re'echa [The Blood of Your Friend]. This is a collection of responsa by contemporary rabbis, on the question of reporting abusers to the authorities. The impetus, as the introduction by Rabbi Zvi Gartner explains, is legislation in the US requiring teachers and others to report abuse immediately.

I haven't read it carefully yet. R Shalom Yosef Elyashiv contributed a couple of short responses. The first is about someone who knows for certain that someone else is abusing a child sexually or physically. Is one allowed to pass this information on to a government official without first applying to a rabbinical court?

Rav Elyashiv answers that, if the facts of the matter are clearcut, it is permitted to report the abuser. If, however, there is no basis at all (שאין אפילו רגלים לדבר), then this is forbidden since the accusation is probably false. [This leaves a tremendous gray area. But maybe that was the point.]

What I found interesting was his source. Only one (it's a very short letter). A responsum by the Rashba, R Shlomo ben Avraham ibn Aderet [vol. 3 no. 393]. It in turn is based on the Talmud BM 84b. Rav Elyashiv extracts from these sources his key concept in the discussion - Tikkun Olam. That rallying point of liberals. Interesting. Especially since it is not mentioned in the source (as my friend Dudi, who is writing his thesis on the Rashba, pointed out to me).

Then he was asked about abuse within the family. Here his answer is much more hedgy. If the child is liable to be taken out of a religiously observant environment and placed in a foster home with an irreligious or non-Jewish family, then that is like killing him. If he (or she) is not in clear and present danger to his life (pikuach nefesh), then reporting the case is not warranted. In any case, the definition of abuse should be examined carefully, since "their" concept of abuse is completely different from "ours".

If I understand that correctly, he means that the law might define corporal punishment as abuse, but "we" know that it is simply a form of educational discipline. But I may be wrong.

The next piece (and the last I copied) is by R Moshe Halberstam, who is described as a member of the Edah heHaredit court and Rosh Yeshiva of Divre Hayim Tchokova. His response is longer, but the essence is the same. He quotes a different responsum of the Rashba, one he knows only from the Beit Yosef [HM 388, 8]. It was found in a manuscript and published by David Kaufmann in the Old Series of JQR, and was included in a recent edition of Rashba's responsa (edited by Prof SZ Havlin, part 9 no. 282).

Towards the end, R Halberstam introduces another important concept, which for him sums up the situation. A child abuser is a rodef. It is a mitzva to stop him in any way. He adds that there are, of course, various issues to take into account, such as the need to try and provide him with a religiously observant doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist, etc. And it should be done in a way that minimizes the damage to other people, such as his family members.

But he does not seem to have qualms about reporting such abuse to the police directly, without consultation with rabbis. But I may have missed something.

My comments:
1. It is good that the issue is being discussed. Admittedly, the editors of Yeshurun seem to be pretty open-minded. They even cite academics when making use of academic research in their articles.

2. No mention of the extensive halachic discussions regarding rumours about a public figure. They are focused almost exclusively on the victims and the need to stop the abuse. I think that's the point I made a few weeks ago. I'm glad it wasn't just my idea.

3. The story in BM which they both refer to is quite an equivocal one, as mentioned in Gertner's introduction to the section, and discussed extensively by Daniel Boyarin in Carnal Israel. Interesting that they would use that as their major source.

4. I summarized the responsum by Rashba I mentioned before, based on R Prof Havlin's notes:

This epistle was sent from Barcelona around the year 1280. A young man was accused of informing on many of the Jewish communities in Spain. The case reached the attention of King Pedro III, who eventually had him executed, with the encouragement of the communities. After his death, one of his relatives told royal officials that the communities did not have the authority to sentence people to death. This post-mortem development forced Rashba to canvass support for his pro-death position overseas.

The Jewish community in Spain, and especially Rashba, was adamant about its right to take steps, including capital punishment, against people perceived as being enemies of the community.

I think that emphasizes something under the surface of this whole section in Yeshurun. They perceive abusers as being enemies of the community. That is very important. But what happens when enemies of the community are leaders of that same community?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Wednesday, March 15, 2006
The Gedolim Made Me Do It!

An Important Reader Writes......

On Septpember 24, 2003, Torah U'Mesorah, The National Society for Hebrew Day Schools, the umbrella organization for more than 700 yeshivas and day schools in the United States and Canada, that teach Torah and general studies to more than 200,000 Jewish children, sent out a confidential 3-page document regarding child sex abuse to all of their member schools. Relevant excerpts appear below:

"At recent meetings of the Rabbinical Board of Torah Umesorah, attended by Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Yitzchok Feigelstock, Rav Aharon Feldman, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, Rav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler, Rav Avrohom Chaim Levin, Rav Yaakov Perlow and Rav Aaron Schechter, shlita, the following statement concerning a painful issue was issued:

We address ourselves to the problem of child molestation in our community. A small number of individuals have caused untold pain to many children, primarily varying in age from three to fourteen. In addition to the sins which they have committed, they have created painful memories in the minds of their victims, memories which can have a devastating lifetime impact.

It is incumbent upon everyone to use every means to stop these violations of children, including, at times, exposing the identities of the abusers and even their incarceration....."


Rabbi Elyashiv Comments.....

A ruling by Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv appears in Yeshurun, a compendium of articles on Halacha, in which the rabbi says it is permissible, in certain cases, to hand over a child abuser to the American police. Elyashiv, considered the most important interpreter of Halacha by Ashkenazi Haredim, said that it was permitted to inform the government in cases in which, "It is clear that he has committed a foul deed, and that this [informing] constitutes a sort of repair of the world." Elyashiv adds another condition, according to which the situation must be that, "Someone is abusing a boy or girl such that we are unable to stop him from continuing his evil actions."

posted by Un-Orthodox Jew | Wednesday, March 15, 2006

53 Comments:

Anonymous said...

this page used to be a fun page to BS and read idiocy written by bored people..
now its not just an anti frum page, its a boring page filled in by people without creativity and morals

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have any info about a guy named Colmer in Flatbush who apparently likes little boys.

sechel said...

The Tzitz Eliezer in chelek 19 specifically states the perpetrator is considered a rodef and one must go to the authorities.

boog said...

this page used to be a fun page to BS and read idiocy written by bored people..
now its not just an anti frum page, its a boring page filled in by people without creativity and morals
_________________________________________

"Sweet Dreams are made of these, everybody's lookin for something..." from ABBA.

You're in the wrong place, anon.

Suggest you join Torah Umesorah, Aguda, or Shelly (I don't go to Cop's Funerals) Silver's office staff.

There is enough BS there to satisfy even the most discriminating palates, such as yours.

Hatzlocho Rabboh.

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

Just out of curiosity. When someone posts a question like the anon above who asked if anyone has information on someone in flatbush who likes little boys, do you have any standards by which you decide whether to post it? is it inconceivable, given the nature of this blog that someone might throw out the name of a comepletely innocent person out of spite or payback for something unrelated?

Your thoughts?

Leib Waldman said...

Margo has called an emergency meeting of all Hungarians to rally against UOJ. It's one thing if UOJ just puts a couple of perverts out of business, but by exposing embezzlers, fraudsters and other slimy crooks, UOJ has declared war on all Hungarians.

Hungarians of the world, unite!

(Leib Pinter, save the date)

Anonymous said...

Do you ost about anything other than this Kolko thing?
what did you ever do before this came up!

George Soros said...

I vas summoned to da Hungarian meeting. Is Aron Tverski going to be the keynote speaker?

Jack Abramoff said...

The rayd around the slammer is that Margo still doesn't get it. Since he can barely even pronounce "blog", he thinks UOJ can't bring him down. YTT might not be padlocked as early as Sept, as UOJ prognosticates, but there's no question that the show is over.

Audiophile said...

Boog,

That song is not from ABBA of Sweden. It's by Eurythmics of Scotland.

Rav Matisyahu Solomon said...

"given the nature of this blog that someone might throw out the name of a comepletely innocent person out of spite or payback for something unrelated?"

Yes. That's why there's a difference between most people being labeled for the first time about whom you can't believe some anonymous outburst, and Yudi Kolko & Margo who have been dogged by koylos for 40 years.

Anonymous said...

Agree with Anon above.
Dangerous turf and ultimatly hurts the overall cause.
Anyone could be next!

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Above Anon,

I do not put up names unless I have been able to verify the accuracy of the "allegations."

I am not suggesting that there is merit to any and every name put up by anonymous people; but there is enough in the public square to warrant the post.

However, every name that I put up, I have verified that there exists a problem from, at the very least, five independent trusted sources.

Anonymous said...

"this page used to be a fun page to BS and read idiocy written by bored people..
now its not just an anti frum page, its a boring page filled in by people without creativity and morals"

May I suggest a copy of Heart to Heart Talks by Rabbi Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg?

Sam Bronfman Jr. said...

UOJ and Orthorev have been kidnapped and have been replaced by mild mannered clones.

Kasey Kasum said...

"boog said...
this page used to be a fun page to BS and read idiocy written by bored people..
now its not just an anti frum page, its a boring page filled in by people without creativity and morals
_________________________________________

"Sweet Dreams are made of these, everybody's lookin for something..." from ABBA.

You're in the wrong place, anon.

Suggest you join Torah Umesorah, Aguda, or Shelly (I don't go to Cop's Funerals) Silver's office staff.

There is enough BS there to satisfy even the most discriminating palates, such as yours.

Hatzlocho Rabboh.

June 21, 2006 '
FYI
That song is by the Eurithmics, not ABBA. Please let' get something right.

Anonymous said...

UOJ,
IS there any truth about something happening at Toras Moshe in Yerushalyim and was the matter taken care of

gross said...

Boog,

It was Annie Lennox (Eurythmics) not ABBA.

Anonymous said...

Colmer has been kicked out the Mirrer Yeshiva for molesting little boys.

boog said...

Speaking of Shelly ( I don't go to Cops Funerals) Silver.

Th guy is a big-time menuval Tinaf Tinofes, shtick drek.

He had to be gragged kicking and screaming by pataki and Leaders of the NYS Legislature to sign off on extending the statute of limitations on rapists and collection of their DNA. The bill is still not as strong as it could/should be all because of Shelly's stone-walling and obdurance.

Why, Shelly, Why? Who's feeding you?

That poor woman who was raped 12 years ago had to come to your office, beg and plead for you to do the right thing? You low-life.

Time to vote this BUM OUT!

Anonymous said...

and Toras Moshe? What are the allegations? Please can somone tell me! Should I be worried?

Anonymous said...

Boog,

"Sweet Dreams" was the Eurythmics, not ABBA.

Anonymous said...

BRAVO to Camp Romimu that sent a detailed letter to all parents concerning the serious issue concerning child sexual abuse. The camp dealt with the problem in a public forum and I applaud them. Where is the rest of our institutions - why dont they do the same?

Baal H. Bos said...

"Sweet dreams are made of these" are Annie Lennox/Eurthmics lyrics. And I believe Marilyn Manson, zol zein gezunt unshtark, cut a remake. WHere did you get ABBA from?

The Awareness Ctr. said...

Feel free to download our brochure

Finding A Rabbi: Tips for Survivors of Sexual Violence
Rabbis, Confidentiality and Other Ethical Issues

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/FindRabbi.pdf

Anonymous said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/21/nyregion/21albany.html?hp

Pasik's bill remained up Silver's ass!

boog said...

anon;

RE: Eurythmics

You're right. Thanks for the correction.

Good song.

boog said...

Ditto thanks to Gross and Kasey Kasum for the heads-up.

Borg, Rosh Chabura of Mirrer Aza"t said...

Was Collmer a Rebbe, a yungerman or a bochur?

R' Dovid Schustal said...

Ich zol zoggen mein bruder Shloyme Feivel az ess passt nisht vos a rosh yeshiva, a meyuchass, hott epess mit Margo. Shoyn tzeit tzu zuchen an anderre shteller.

extomoguy said...

regarding the tomo accusations, its all a load of crap. its amazing that no one in tomo now has heard of these accusations except for a few who read it on this site but clearly there r no rumors coming from within.but of course uoj never posts anything unless he heard it from 5 ppl why dont you share these names with us?

Dor Yeshurim said...

Margo's emergency meeting is restricted to Hungarians only, in case UOJ tries planting any spies. We will be taking blood samples outside the building to detect for Khazar chromosomes.

Orthodox Jewish Scientists said...

We wonder if any Mongol chromosomes will show up in those Hungarian blood samples. It was Genghis Khan and his horde that pushed the Khazar Magyars into Hungary.

Anonymous said...

Pasik's bill is alive.

The bigshots are negotiating it now.

You can help by sending emails. Ask them to support the nonpublic school employee background check bill. Ask them to compromise their differences. Above all, be nice. These are the players:

1. Assembly Speaker Silver:
speaker@assembly.state.ny.us

2. Senator Skelos:
skelos@senate.state.ny.us

3. Senator Saland:
saland@senate.state.ny.us

And keep davening. This is for real.

Anonymous said...

could someone please post the letter that Romimu sent out so we could all get a sense of what a yashrus-dikke institution does (as opposed to the Harvards of Russian Parkway.
We need to show YTT what the current 'style' is and what is 'trendy'. We all know they like to follow the crowd.

Anonymous said...

Colmer is a Baalaabos who lives in the Mir neighborhood, he is always seen hanging aroung yeshiva k'tana kids. He used to daven in the Mir until R' Shmuel Berenbaum found out that he molested a yeshiva k'tana kid, and he told him never to set foot in the Mir again.

shadow walker said...

While reading all these missives are well intentioned and important, I hope I am wrong but it seems few of you have spent time with the 1000's of our kids or women who have been raped and sexually abused in other ways.

Ever work with a woman who was married at 17 in a Chassidish family and was raped on the first night of her narriage? Years later after repeated rapes and abuse she had a child. Thank goodness she left the marriage. A major Beis Din in Borough Park found her to be an unfit mother and ordered her to give up her little yingele.No visitation and ordered the father to return and then bring the boy with him to eretz yisroel to live there.

Believe me no way was I going to let that happen and it did not. She is remarried and has another child - a maideleh. Lives in Brooklyn.

So let me give you something to think on outside the box. What would you do if this situation came before you?

Think out of the box and you will have some of the answers.

How many of you actually think a corrupt beis din is hard to take apart?

By the way let me make sure I am understood as you ponder this question.

No threats. No violence. No private talks. No coercion. There a way to get them to run though from the door.

What is that way and how do you accomplish that? Anyone want to know the answer?

Sorry our blog master. I know this is against the rules. You are the moderator and this might bring questions away from the direction of your posts. There is though a powerful answer. Courage to be a decent human being though is required.

Jewish Assemblyman said...

Pasik's bill is going nowhere and he knows it.
It got stuck up Silver's ass with all the other bullshit bills.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Jewish Assemblyman, were you one of the ten m'raglim?

How important is this? There are competing bills in the State Senate and Assembly, and they have each been amended and reprinted several times.

So kleinekup, you can go to the Senate and Assembly websites, and if you know how to read, check out S. 7381B in the Senate; and A. 11399C in the Assembly. The Senate bill is sponsored by Deputy Majority Leader Skelos, and Education Committee Chairman Saland. The Assembly Bill is sponsored by Speaker Silver, and Harvey Weisenberg. Do you recognize any of those names, or have you been watching too many TV sitcoms and game shows lately?

They're negotiating their differences, and maybe there will be one bill to be voted on tomorrow, the last day of the session, and after Pataki signs, the yeshivas can then avoid hiring convicted sex offenders and other criminals. The two bills have some other good stuff in them, but I think its too complicated for you to understand.

And if, chas v'shalom, we do not get a bill passed, we try again next session - perhaps without you, you negative nudnik.

Bye, kaka-head, run into your bathroom and lock the door, the boogey man is coming. The rest of us will be sending emails to Silver, Skelos, and Saland.

Horav Simcha Schustal said...

Shloime Feivel,

Shma bnee musser Avicha. Get the heck away from Margo!

Yudel Shain said...

I wonder if YTT and Margo's house have had their values properly assessed. If not, then all NYC residents are paying higher taxes.

Anonymous said...

dear uoj,
it's an hour before Shabbos but i have to give you a big yasher koach for exoposing these perverts. they harm young kids in a irreperable manner and are 'using' Torah for their own tayvos- a horrible chillul Shem Shamayim.
ALL those involved on this terrible aveira should be purged from chinuch . may i suggest that you invite anyone who reported these offense to 'higher ups' to tell you who was involved in 'covering up' . once verified you should contact those so called 'leaaders - tell what you know and ask them to step down - if they don't EXPOSE them and force them to stay away from our kids.
you should open this up to all cases from NCSY - do you really believe that no- one knew- baloney . many ncsy leaders and advisors wereco-conspiritors by their silence as they were afraid for their jobs if they didn't cover up. Same goes for the Hanhala in TT or Ner.
w e must demand FULL accountability and only you can do it!!!

Anonymous said...

how is he supposed to conotact them? In person.

get real. the hero is shy.

Thinking Jew said...

http://thinking-jew.blogspot.com/

Arthur said...

I know that this is somewhat off topic but it's remarkable

Talmud Study now Mandatory in South Korea


Close to 50 million people live in South Korea, and everyone learns Gemara (Talmud) in school. "We tried to understand why the Jews are geniuses, and we came to the conclusion that it is because they study Talmud," said the Korean ambassador to Israel. And this is how "Rav Papa" became a more well known scholar in Korea than in Israel.

It is doubtful if the Amoraic scholars, Abbaye and Rava imagined their discussions of Jewish law in the Beit Midrash in Babylon would be taught hundreds of years later in East Asia. Yet it turns out that the laws of an "egg born on a holiday" ("ביצה שנולדה ביום טוב") is actually very interesting to the South Koreans who have required that Talmud study be part of their compulsory school curriculum.

Almost every home in South Korea now contains a Korean-translated Talmud. But unlike in Israel, the Korean mothers teach the Talmud to their children. In a country of close to 49 million people who believe in Buddhism and Christianity, there are more people who read the Talmud - or at least own their own copy at home - more than in the Jewish state. Much more.

"So we too will become geniuses"

"We were very curious about the high academic achievements of the Jews," explains Israel's ambassador to South Korea, Young Sam Mah, that was a host on the program "culture today."

"Jews have a high percentage of Nobel laureates in all fields: literature, science and economics. This is a remarkable achievement. We tried to understand what is the secret of the Jewish people? How they - more than other people - are able to reach those impressive accomplishments? Why are Jews so intelligent? The conclusion we arrived at is that one of your secrets is that you study the Talmud."

"Jews study the Talmud at a young age, and it helps them, in our opinion, to develop mental capabilities. This understanding led us to teach our children as well. We believe that if we teach our children Talmud, they will also become geniuses. This is what stands behind the rationale of introducing Talmud Study to our school curriculum."

Young says that he himself studied the Talmud at a very young age: "It is considered very significant study," he emphasized. The result is that more Koreans have Talmud sets in their homes than Jews in Israel.

"I, for example, have two sets of the Talmud: the one my wife bought me, and the second was a gift from my mother."

Groupies of Jews

Koreans don't only like the Talmud because they see it as promoting genius, but because they found values that are ​​close to their hearts.

"In the Jewish tradition, family values ​​are important," explains the South Korean Ambassador.

"You see it even today, your practice of the Friday evening family meal. In my country we also focus on family values. The respect for adults, respect and appreciation for the elderly parallels the high esteem in my country for the elderly."

Another very significant issue is the respect for education. In the Jewish tradition parents have a duty to teach their children, and they devote to it lots of attention. For Korean parents, their children's education is a top priority.

Arthur said...

This one is definitely more on topic

Why did Bernie Madoff go to prison? To make it simple, he talked people into investing with him. Trouble was, he didn't invest their money. As time rolled on he simply took the money from the new investors to pay off the old investors. Finally therewere too many old investors and not enough money from new investors coming in to keep the payments going.

Next thing you know Madoff is one of the most hated men in America and he is off to jail.

Some of you know this. But not enough of you. Madoff did to his investors what the government has been doing to us for over 70 years with Social Security. There is no meaningful differencebetween the two schemes, except that one was operated by a private individual who is now in jail, and the other is operated by politicians who enjoy perks, privileges and status in spite of their actions.



BERNIE MADOFF

SOCIAL SECURITY

Takes money from investors

with the promise that the money

will be invested and made

available to them later.

Takes money from wage

earners with the promise

that the money will be

invested in a "Trust Fund"

(Lock Box) and made

available later.

Instead of investing the money Madoff spends it

on nice homes in the Hamptons and yachts.

Instead of depositing money

in a Trust Fund the

politicians transfer it to the General Revenue Fund and

use it for general spending

and vote buying.

When the time comes to

pay the investors back

Madoff simply uses some

of the new funds from

newer investors to pay

back the older investors.

When benefits for older

investors become due the politicians pay them with

money taken from younger

and newer wage earners to

pay the older geezers.

When Madoff's scheme

is discovered all hell

breaks loose. New

investors won't give him

any more cash.

When Social Security runs

out of money the politicians

try to force the taxpayers to

send them some more; or they cancel S/S to all those

who paid into it.

Bernie Madoff is in jail.

Politicians remain in Washington .. with fat

medical and retirement benefits.


"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert , in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

~ Milton Friedman

Question Mark said...

If Montreal did not do their homework about Schmelczer, why doesn't someone call Montreal and inform them. don't you care about the kids?

Anonymous said...

Margo is still going strong.

UOJ, what happened to the ten makos? After the ten makos, I thought we would be free, yet Margo is still in charge!

Who knows what kibud he will receive at the next siyum hashas?

Question Mark said...

If you are fabricating the stories about Schmelczer, you are committing shfichas domim. So put up or shut up.

Thinking Jew said...

More corruption in the Japan fiasco!

http://thinking-jew.blogspot.com/2011/03/japan-and-chassidim-promotion-of.html

Thinking Jew said...

Insiders on the Kolko - Lakewood Story!

http://thinking-jew.blogspot.com/2011/03/exclusive-inside-facts-on-kolko.html

Anonymous said...

the rabbis who took money from tropper don't see any problem because they are doing the same thing.

here in miami, the av beis din for gerus is running a prostitution service. it just got ugly when one of the "dear johns" who was extorted for $$$ when to the DA's office to file for a restraining order.

he didn't know that the DA was frum (no kippa or beard).

anyway, the john told the attorney that dora m. a geirus candidate with rabbi turk had sex with her daughter and him. now she is extorting him and his brother for money not to tell their families.

BTW, rabbi turk charges $250 for each "lesson".

that is how he can afford his house in miami beach with no job.

Moshe Sharon said...

So here we are some 4,000 years after G-d's covenant with Abraham waiting for the Messiah especially since our Rebbe (Jewish leader) told us that we are the generation that will receive him. Thus, the more time that goes by the more impatient we become and we tell G-d over and over again, “We don’t wanna wait!!!” We demand in our loudest voice, “Mashiach now!!!” But then, I begin to wonder, “Why should we wait?” We have learned from the Rambam (Maimonides) and other sources that under Messiah’s rule, the world will change to the extent that everyone will be able to perceive G-dliness in all parts of the world. Therefore, the question stands, “Why should we wait?”
The difference is in the effort. After our redemption, perception of G-dliness will be automatic; it won’t take any exertion. However, if we are to perceive G-dliness now we have to work at it because it is anything but obvious. Hassidism teaches us that G-d hides Himself. This statement seems confusing at first glance because He told us, “Do I not fill all worlds?” Thus, this seeming paradoxical concept of the Omnipresent concealed begs the question, “If he is everywhere, then where is He hiding?” The answer is, He hides behind our egos. Yes, a puffed-up sense of self that believes only in its own independence is obstructing the natural inclination to perceive G-dliness. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all of the righteous people to this day were able to perceive G-dliness everywhere because they had no ego blocking their view. More at http://thoughts4thesoul.wordpress.com

Yale said...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/culturebox/2014/01/did_woody_allen_molest_his_adopted_daughter_22_years_ago_reviewing_the_evidence.html

Is Yale University's child sex crimes investigative unit covering up for high profile molesters? Did they cover up for actor Woody Allen?

Woody Allen the menuvol, his real name is Konigsberg

Once when he was being filmed for a movie on the Lower East Side, he bumped into a choshuva alter Poilishe who would be 99 if he was still alive today. It was the Pilzno Rov, R' Yosef Singer ztl.

Woody Allen yelled at the rov the krumkeit from British philosopher Toynbee that Yiddishkeit is a "fossil".