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Tuesday, August 22, 2006

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

TUVYA IS CHAIM NEUHOFF
Address: 1296 E. 10th. St.
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11230
718-501-3708


Blogger Posek is Yisroel Belsky
506 E. 7th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11218.
(718) 941-0112.



Blessed With Children?
By Viva Hammer


The story is told of an Orthodox man who stepped onto a bus in Jerusalem, eight children in tow. The bus driver, frustrated by all the chaos, barked out at him, "Why didn't you just leave half your kids at home?" The man paused and then answered, "I did."

It may seem that the Orthodox have been blessed with high fertility since time immemorial, but, at least in America, this has not always been the case. The latest National Jewish Population Survey data shows that although Orthodox women in their 40s have, on average, double the number of children of their Reform and Conservative counterparts, Jewish women older than 60 have fairly similar family sizes in all three denominations.

This presents a conundrum: Why are both Modern and ultra-Orthodox women who have one or two siblings choosing to have four, six or eight children of their own? And why are they doing so in an era in which all other Jewish women are having fewer children than their mothers?

Interviews with a range of Orthodox women around the world point to a number of possible explanations. Today, not only are Orthodox women more observant than their counterparts in other branches of Judaism, but they also are more observant than their own mothers. This "frumming out" of the younger generation expressed itself in many different ways, but chief among them is raising more children.

Mothers in the yeshiva world told me that they believe a woman's role is to have "baby after baby," just like their husbands' role is to learn "page after page of Gemara." In a novel adaptation of the term used for service in the Temple in Jerusalem, some women said that childbearing has become women's avodah, their "spiritual work." "The more [children] you have, the more your avodah; the more your ego is challenged, the more you're forced to surrender," explained Danielle Zucker, 39, a South African immigrant to the United States and a mother of five. For her, learning to parent a large clan is her service to God, and it makes her a better, more spiritually connected person.

Some emphasize the growing social and economic stability of the American Orthodox community as a catalyst for the Orthodox baby boom. After World War II, American Orthodoxy was made up in good part by Holocaust survivors and immigrants who were, in Leah Fine's words, "mentally, physically, emotionally" weakened by their experiences. Fine, 42, who has lived all her life in Brooklyn, explains that although her mother only had five children, she herself had the "privilege" of raising 10 because "our parents gave us everything."

Growing families today have grandparents to cushion them through rough times; those grandparents often did not have the same comfort when they were young. Becoming the founders of big, thriving families is a triumph for a generation of whom most have lived through some combination of depression, war and mass resettling. Their generosity means that their children can have, in the words of Keren Shahar, 37, who grew up in Manhattan, a "more laid-back attitude" about finances. She believes that in deciding to have her five children, there was less self-asking about "Can we provide for all of them?" She figures that her parents "could always help out."

For some couples, the Holocaust is the touchstone in family-size decisions. "How did the third child come about in our family?" asked Kim Feldman, 35, of Cedarhurst, Long Island. "We wanted to do more than just the minimum in the obligation to procreate, also to replace some of what was lost, because my father is a survivor." For Lynn Stein, a professor of psychology in her 50s, the Holocaust wasn't a direct motivation to bear her 11 children. But as she said, having had lots of children gives her a "good feeling," a means of "getting back at the people who did the genocide."

The question of why more of the Orthodox have responded to the Holocaust by having "replacement" children than the other denominations is a complex one. Orthodoxy was particularly ravaged during World War II, losing all its centers of higher learning, hundreds of Hasidic courts and an entire way of life. Indeed, immediately after the war, American Jewish sociologists predicted that Orthodoxy would disappear. High fertility is a nay-say to both of these threats of imminent death, a reaction not directly relevant to the other denominations.

Backup is a critical linchpin in the Orthodox fertility story. Orthodox communities are geographically tight because members need to be able to walk to synagogue on the Sabbath. This means that a neighbor is more likely to be someone you know well and whose values you share. Women will speak of sharing maternity clothes, equipment and baby sitting with friends, and calling on them to pinch-hit a carpool ride to sports practice.

But the Orthodox community structure to support large families is stronger than these small gestures. After a new baby is born, the family of the newborn will receive meals for a week or two, and the mother may even be able to convalesce at no cost at a maternity "spa." Such an institution runs year round in the Seagate area of Brooklyn. Women come for a week or two after childbirth to rest and bond with their babies without having to tend to the crowd at home, as well.

Tuition at Orthodox day schools is generally lower than at other denominations' schools, and greater assistance is available to those who cannot afford to meet their educational obligations. An intricate web of gemachs — benevolent societies — provides everything from interest-free loans to job training to family counseling. An all-encompassing welfare net makes the Orthodox's risk of bringing children into the world much less than that of the regular American Jewish family.

What of the future? Will the daughters of the dream continue to be inspired by the childbearing ideals that motivated their mothers? Rumblings of change are already in the air, as certain Modern Orthodox parents on Long Island are considering breaking a taboo and moving their children from Jewish day schools to public schools because of mounting tuition bills. Financial constraints are hitting first, but emotional ones are just as important. Zucker said she always fantasized about a big, warm Sabbath table, but she never imagined the bedlam on Sunday night! Another woman said she dreamed of having 10, a minyan, but she has found that "between the ideal and real... you have to have broad shoulders and rings under your eyes." Will the children born of the Orthodox baby boom be prepared to sacrifice as their mothers did?

Everywhere, the message of the outside world seeps in: certainly into the Modern Orthodox enclaves, and even into the right wing. And the message is, only a family that has a couple of children can live a civilized life, as we define it today, with private schooling, extracurricular activities, camp, a year in Israel, college, weddings. Will the Orthodox be part of this civilization, or will they continue to live different kinds of lives — one clan alone crowding out a city bus — even if half of them remain at home?!


Viva Hammer works in the Office of Tax Policy at the U.S. Department of the Treasury and is a research associate at the Hadassah-Brandeis Institute at Brandeis University.

30 comments:

Catholic Priest said...

As a catholic priest who believes that the Jews are God's chosen people, it pained me greatly when I was informed about the sexual abuse scandal brewing in the midst of such a great nation.

However, upon further investigation, my pain led to anger, as it became clear that God's chosen people were being led astray, and their belief system was being hijacked, by fake leaders and false prophets.

As part of the clergy, I have had several meetings with high ranking Jewish leaders and have come away greatly pleased and encouraged by the message being delivered and the high morals displayed.

However, at a recent inter-faith meeting among the leaders of several denominations, it became painfully obvious that the same Jewish leaders became different people when faced with a harsh reality. Instead of addressing the great issues of the day, they chose to display dubious traits of moral character and, to be blunt, a shocking lack of compassion for victims, and would refuse to speak about the issue of child sexual abuse with any moral clarity or honesty.

It was as if the to speak of sexual abuse would be to bow down to Jesus himself.

Now, we of the catholic faith have a tradition of ‘love thy neighbor’ (i.e. compassion) as being the first and foremost quality that we learned from Jesus and endeavor to incorporate such ideals into our daily lives.

I do not understand how the leaders of the Jewish People do not learn from their previous great prophets and leaders such a Abraham and Moses, renown for their great mercy, kindness, compassion, truth and honesty.

What has happened to the people of the Bible- God’s sole chosen nation?

clearinghouse sweepstakes said...

does she win the $100? Because I believe she had all the elements you were looking for, comedy and over the top among them them.

outoftown said...

The point about founding a family is a great one. My grandfather, may he live to 120, has recently gone through some pretty rough health issues and is depressed a lot. NOTHING gives him more happiness than seeing all of his 23 grandchildren and 3 great grandchildren living productive, healthy lives as religious jews. I truly believe that in his advanced age, this is the one thing that truy makes him happy. Being the last of his line after the holocaust, he knows with certainty that he has brought many Jewish people into this world and nothing makes him happier. It's very easy to get lost in despair as you people get older, but if someone has a clear view of what he/she has accomplished in their life, then despair is meaningless. My grandfather knows that he has accomplished more than most people can hope for in the family that he raised. This is the power of family.

Auto Report World Editors said...

I wonder, though, what the fertility rates were for Jews in Europe before the Shoah. My bubbe, born around 1900, had 6 siblings. I know someone who was from a family of 13 children.

Back then, it wasn't "replacement" children for those who were killed in the Shoah (remember, 1.5 million kids were murdered), a large family was "insurance" against death from childhood diseases and accidents.

If a couple wants to have a large family, I'm not going to criticize.

However, the important question can be found in the comment, "She figures that her parents "could always help out." "

The issue is not the size of our families. The issue is whether we are creating an economically unviable society. Orthodox masses follow an educational paradigm designed for elite scholars.

In Europe, hardly anyone was sent away to yeshiva, just the promising students. Everyone else tried to make a living.

Now, all our boys go away to school for secondary education, and many expect to sit and learn for years.

There is a concurrent disparaging of any kind of work that actually involves work.

Though the oft heard cliche that women make X cents on the dollar compared to men is not supported when one factors in education and time spent working at lower career levels. Women make less money because they generally start their careers later and have less experience due to hiatuses associated with child bearing and raising.

Likewise, if a large percentage of men stay out of the work force until their mid to late 20s, they will most likely never catch up with their secular peers, in terms of career advancement and salaries.

So who is going to pay the tuition?

OTOH, if worrying about the size of our families is the worst problem we have...

NP: MP3 compilation disk with bunches of covers of Hendrix' Little Wing and John Lennon's Jealous Guy (arguably Lennon's finest song)

yentl said...

What about when women have plenty of children, all close in age, but can't take care of them if her existence depended upon it. Just take a stroll around BP and you'll see women placing the lives of their children in danger. Pushing strollers against traffic, or ignoring kids who play dangerously close to the curb too.

Perhaps they have so many, they figure, nu, I have another one just in case!

southernyid said...

what does this have to do with anything?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

The family today consists of two parents a Maria and many children. In the Yeshiva world it's one ass on a bench somewhere, one slave-the wife, and the shiksa raising the kids while the parents are killing themselves to help out.

Ronnie's point is so valid...have as many kinderlach as you can take care of, nurture, love, spend time with. Statistics have definitely demonstrated that the larger the family, the greater the risk of having children being neglected and ultimately turning to other sources of comfort.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Hey Mr. Catholic Priest,

While I'm pissed off at our leaders a bit more than you know or can imagine, as long as Cardinal Law is working at the Vatican take your cross and shove it up Margulies's and Belsky's place where the sun don't shine!

Catholic Priest said...

UOJ:

I'm confused, Cardinal Law resigned, some may say he resigned out of political or church pressure, but he resigned nonetheless.

I have done quite of bit of research, as we are using this blog as a case study in sexual abuse and religion during out inter-faith group study. During such research one thing became resoundingly clear- Jewish Leaders do not resign even when they are obviously evidencing behavior that is contradictory and detrimental to their sacred religion.

They may be put 'on-leave' or fired, but they will just not admit to their wrong and apologize as Cardinal Law has done (despite the impetus that has caused such apology).

In fact, the Catholic Church routinely apologizes and tries to rectify the tragedies of yesteryear. This is not a quality found in Orthodox Judaism. Their leaders have a mantra that 'as long as we don’t admit it- it never happened'. This, of course, comes at the expense of victims who so desperately need such apology.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, I am just very interested to discover why it is that a people supposedly filled with such mercy and truth feel the need to undermine legitimate complaints of abuse.

Do not your leaders feel the need to apologize on a basic human level, if not a higher spiritual level?

Jesus would most certainly apologize if he was in Rabbi Belsky's, Marguiles or Rabbi Kolko's shoes- are your leaders not of such caliber?

Emma Hill said...

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/0632,letters,74114,7.html

Beards of a feather don't rabbi together

Re Kristen Lombardi's "Silence of the Lam" [July 26–August 1]: This character Mondrowitz is a dirty lowlife who deserves to go away (prison, not Israel) for a very long time. What I do take issue with is the use of the word rabbi. This isn't the first time the Voice has referred to a Jewish perp as a rabbi. I know it has shock value and attracts more readers, but the fact remains that a beard on a Jew does not a rabbi make—neither does calling oneself rabbi. Most rabbis are upstanding leaders of the Jewish community but every race and religion has its bad eggs—giving that moniker to this sort of miscreant only besmirches good people by association. A headline like this one can have the effect of defaming rabbis in general.

Emma Hill
Manhattan

Rabbi Edgar Gluck said...

A 34 year old father of 3 and his father-in-law are missing in Toronto. (Heine Mondrowitz, 56, of Richmond Hill, Ont., and his son-in-law, Eli Horowitz, 30 of Toronto [son of R' Yankel Horowitz R"M in Yeshivas Peekskill]. They went fishing yesterday afternoon north of Toronto and never returned. The authorities have just found the empty boat but they are nowhere to be found. Numerous Askanim including Rabbi Edgar Gluck are working tirelessly with the local authorities to locate them. Please be Mispallel for Avraham Elimelech ben Devora, and Chanoch ben Rivka Leah that they should be returned safley to their families.-YW Editor.

http://www.soonews.ca/viewarticle.php?id=8192

Two Men Still Missing On Northern Ontario Lake

SooNews Staff
LTVNews.com
Tuesday, August 22 2006, 8:19PM

Two Toronto area men missing since yesterday at 3:30pm have still not been located.

The two men, Heine MONDROWITZ and Eli HOROWITZ, along with their families were vacationing at the Waltonian Inn, Lake Nipissing, about 5 hours east of Sault Ste. Marie,when the two decided to go for a boat ride around 3:30pm Monday.

Their empty boat was located drifting off of Premier Rd. North Bay around 5:30pm yesterday.

An extensive ground, air and water search was conducted all day by the North Bay OPP, SAVE unit, OPP helicopter and the Underwater search and rescue unit with negative results. Also searching were three civilian helicopters and up to twenty volunteers.

Police investigation will continue into the night and resume in full at daybreak, 23Aug 2006.

Anonymous said...

Although I am very reluctant to say this, it seems as if Catholic Preist has made one of the most damaging and dammning post to belsky and the establishment in general. They should all be ashamed!

Auto Report World Editors said...

Pushing strollers against traffic, or ignoring kids who play dangerously close to the curb too.

Or buying the cheapest bicycle helmets you can get (the law here requires them on kids). I tell parents that with all the money they are spending on tuition, they should try to protect the brain on which they are spending that money. If you have a $10 head, get a $10 helmet. Oh, and then they don't bother to have the helmets adjusted properly either.

I've never been an overprotective parent, and I wanted my kids, now mostly grown, to have the same freedom that my siblings and I enjoyed. However, from my observations it seems that froomie parents let very young children play outside completely unsupervised. No, a six year old is not capable of keeping a three year old safe.

The article said that frum kids are having more children than their parents. Considering that I know a number of families with 10+ kids who are now getting married and starting families themselves, will this mean families with 20 children?

i got nailed by yudi said...

mr. rosh yeshiva is yossi klineman

Anonymous said...

TO UOJ THE GREAT ONE. THE ARTICLE, UOJ IS THE ROTO ROOTER GUY, IS BEAUTIFUL, IT'S A MASTERPEICE. I read it so many times already i know it by heart the work you are doing is not an easy task and might be a little dirty but its definetly worthwhile and neccesary for someone has to hang up the dirty diapers full of charah that are destroying our system and the lives of our young innocent kids (sheloi tuami tam chait) go roto rooter clean out the system and their enablers cause the more i walk the neighberhood the more it stinks dont ever stop keep up your "holy' LEIZEROWITS VICTIM FOREVER

Anonymous said...

Ronnie and UOJ

I think both of you were essentially on the mark in your last two post abouit family size.

A few additional observations:

1) Much of this blog has been dedicated to the failures of our leadership and their preoccupation with pointless psudo-halachik nonsense. As a result, this blog has cultivated it's own version of political correctness wherein anyone who invokes the authority of Halacha (especially as interpeetd by our Rabbonim)risks being ostracized as a "frummie", a "kool-aid-drinker", owner of a mental-disorder, or worse. Having said that, there is a Shulchan Oruch, and our Mesorah clearly calls upon the need for Chachamim to help us interpret it. There is a millenia-old understanding that family planning involves complex Halachik issues and that an observant jew must have access to a competant Rav in order to sort these issues out.

2)There is no question that the current and recent generation of typical orthodx families have more children than their parents genration did. I think the primary reasons include the following: a) The parent generation, in many instances, were older when they arrived here post WWII and had less time to have kids b) the child generation is more affluent and can better afford to have larger families c) like it or not (and I'm already bracing for the flaming) the child generation was provided with a more comprehensive yeshiva education from childhood. This has led - for better and sometimes for worse - to a generation that considers itself more meticulous about halachik matters. That doesn't mean that the parents weren't well intentioned sincerely observant jews, just less educated. I'm fairly certain that today's 20, 30, and 40-something yeshivah educated population is far more likely to have asked shailos about family planning than their parents were. Once Shailos are asked, the outcome is more likely to be more kid than less kids.

3) A by-product of reasons 2)a) and 2)b) above is that a larger family has become a status symbol of both "frumkeit" and of wealth - both of which play important roles in the shidduch scene.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Gov. Signs Private School Background Check BillÂ
Jennifer Friedlin
Jewish Week - Wednesday, August 23, 2006 / 29 Av 5766
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=12892



Gov. George Pataki has signed a law that will permit private schools to do background checks on prospective employees, a move designed to keep sex offenders and other criminals away from students.

Jessica Scaperotti, a spokeswoman for the State Division of Criminal Justice Services, said the law, which takes effect next July 1, will ensure that “all pertinent information is available to parents, guardians and future employers so that they can make the right decision with regard to our children.”

However, unlike the public schools, which must run fingerprints checks on all prospective employees against the FBI’s national criminal history database, the new law will allow private schools, which serve 500,000 students statewide, to opt out of doing the checks.

Supporters of the background check legislation applauded the law, but said concerns remained that the lower standard for private schools could make them a dumping ground for criminals.

Under the law, if a background check shows that a prospective employee has a record, the state Education Department will have to clear the candidate for employment in a private school.------------------------------------------------
Klal Yisroel is indebted to Elliot Pasik Esq. for his fierce determination in seeing this bill through the legislature and signed by Governor Pataki.

A personal thanks Elliot from a humble and grateful Jew.

UOJ

Anonymous said...

Preist please respond to UOJ, what do you have to say?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

ALL YESHIVA AND GIRLS SCHOOL PARENTS!--------------------------------------------------------------

DEMAND THAT YOUR CHILD'S SCHOOL PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS ON ALL EXISTING AND NEW EMPLOYEES OR TELL THEM YOU'RE TAKING YOUR CHILD OUT OF THERE!

ENOUGH IS TOO MUCH!!!!!

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO DONATE MONEY TO SCHOOLS: DEMAND THAT BACKGROUND CHECKS ARE DONE OR YOU WILL REFUSE TO CONTRIBUTE. HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS, IN THEIR POCKETS!

mr. cautious said...

is there any chance of the law getting derailed or weakened before its july 1, 2007 effective date as so often happens?

We must keep our vigilance up and if anything try to put more teeth into the law before it becomes effective.

What was done is great. I'm with uoj in congratulating Mr. Pasik and the Senators who had the courage and the vision to see this through. But let's remember that it's not effective yet, so basically, don't count your chickens until they hatch and it ain't over til the fat rabbi sings.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Southern Yid,

Easy to make kids; if you do, take care of them for Heaven's sake.

So if your child is telling you that the rebbe or teacher is acting strange you have the time to listen, go down to the school and beat the shit out of the rebbe, call the police, beat the shit out of the administrator that hired the rebbe, knock out the teeth of the posek that issues hazmanas to people that express concern that children are being molested, and hire a lawyer to sue the ass off the school, go the D.A....... this requires time.

IF YOU MAKE KIDS, TAKE CARE OF THEM!OK??

Gee Whiz said...

People won't give $$$ to yeshivos unless the yeshivos opt for pervert background checks? Hmmm. That somehow seems more effective than any lawmaking in Albany could accomplish.

It's not enough though as rebbe types are usually under the criminal radar.

Anonymous said...

UOJ THANKS once again for this bill being passed, keep it up ther is still much work ahead. LEIZEROWITZ VICTIM FOREVER

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Catholic Priest,

GAY cock in yom. You guys did the priest/molester shuffle. Law"less" resigned and was moved to the comfort of the Vatican.

Regarding the Jewish clergy, we believe in stoning, we never moved out of the dark ages. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...you can finish the sentence!

Auto Report World Editors said...

Msgr.,

To being with, according to the gospels, Jesus never once acknowledged anywrongdoing and he vigorously defended himself whenever anyone questioned his behavior, to the Pharisees, to his disciples, and to Pontius Pilate (so much for being the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 who "opened not his mouth", eh?). The only time he might have come close to admitting error was when he was dying and even then he blamed God "why have you abandoned me?".

As for your categoric condemnation of the Orthodox Jewish clergy, though one might question the sincerity or extent of their apology, some of the individuals who had initially defended Baruch Lanner have indeed apologized to the community and to his victims.

The RCC has a hierarchy and an organizational structure. To be sure, the church initially used that to avoid dealing with the issue of pedophile priests by moving the offenders to different parrishes or schools. However, when the problem got too big to avoid or cover up, that structure and hierarchy was used to address the issue, at least in part. A parrish priest can be punished by his superiors in the church, to the point, if I'm not mistaken, of defrocking and excommunication. Since the RCC is one organization, such sanctions have real power.

Orthodox Judaism has no such hierarchy or organizational structure. Rabbis are acknowledged as "gedolim" [great men] by virtue of aclaimation and whatever power they have is based on their own righteousness and what credibility they have with the laity. While someone can be excommunicated, i.e. put in cherem, there is no organizational structure to enforce such a decree. The miscreant can just open up shop somewhere else.

I'm certainly not going to give bad rabbis a free pass, but you are comparing apples and oranges here. UOJ and the people who support his cause are well aware of how the orthodox community prefers to present a positive image to the outside world and is reluctant to acknowledge wrondoing on the part of our clergy.

But simply put, I smell more than a whiff of an agenda in your posts, your disclaimers notwithstanding.

We Jews didn't get involved, as Jews, in your churches scandals. We respectfully ask the same of you. We'll wash our dirty linen, and you can do your own laundry as well.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Oh, one other thing, Father,

Your church refuses to return property stolen or coerced from Jews. The Vatican library is full of Jewish books that were either stolen or otherwise obtained under less than ethical means - like demanding copies so that church censors (as Rav Steinsaltz says in his corrected Hebrew text of the Talmud, "nishtana al yad haTzentzura") could change Jewish texts that the church considered dangerous or challenging to the church's theology or official protocols. The Ramban, Nachmonides, even ublished his own account of the Barcelona disputation - so the church's false history would not stand unchallenged.

Jews consider books to be holy things. When we drop a Jewish religious text on the floor, we pick it up and kiss it. However these are only books.

What about the 50,000 Jewish children that your church kidnapped during the Holocaust? Yes, their lives were saved, but the church has opposed any effort by Jews to identify Jewish orphans of the Holocaust baptized by the RCC so they could return to their legitimate heritage. Why not follow the example of a Polish priest named Karol Wotija, who refused to baptize a Jewish child left by his parents with Catholic neighbors, and insisted that Stanley Berger be returned to his Jewish relatives in North America?

Abuse Watch said...

This is on a much lesser scale than the horrors of the TT boiler room at the hands of the Kolkostein monster, but I am appalled by mistreatment of children and especially infants at unlicensed & illegally run playgroups / babysitting services. I know of one case in particular where there are many infants strapped in car seats in a dingy basement with no air conditioning. The babysitter does not pay much attention to them or even feed them if they are cranky. I find it shocking that the parents neglect their own children by allowing this to take place.

Vatican Watch said...

Hey Joe Clerical Collar,

Tidy your own rectory before you lecture the Jews. I'm not even going to get into the abysmal moral failures of the Mediaeval-era Church as more contemporary history ought to suffice.

While many priests put their lives at risk to save Jews from the Nazis, many other priests openly collaborated with the SS / Gestapo. Instead of being defrocked by the Vatican, they at best received some slap on the wrist reprimand.

Probably the most notorious Nazi panderer priest was Jozef Tiso, may his name be blotted out. Czechoslovak authorities executed him after the war as a war criminal & traitor.

http://www.weissmandl.org/TheUnheededCry/TheUnheededCry_Index.htm

For more information about Tiso, read "The Unheeded Cry"

http://www.john-loftus.com/

The lawyer and former US Intelligence operative John Loftus, an Irish Catholic, has devoted much time to uncovering Roman Catholic atrocities in concert with the Nazis.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031218199X/104-1303379-8726300?v=glance&n=283155

Unholy Trinity, is one of Loftus's excellent books that covers the Nazi-Vatican nexus.

Mark Twain said...

On one hill is the Monastery, on the opposite hill is the Nunnery. In the valley between lies the orphanage to raise the illegitimate offspring.

Concentration of power in a political machine is bad; and an Established Church is only a political machine; it was invented for that; it is nursed, cradled, preserved for that; it is an enemy to human liberty, and does no good which it could not better do in a split-up and scattered condition.
(from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court)

The church is always trying to get other people to reform; it might not be a bad idea to reform itself a little, by way of example.
(from A Tramp Abroad)

Auto Report World Editors said...

Though, as I commented, I believe that the Catholic Priest may have an agenda for posting here, his comments should be taken to heart by serious Jews.

Here is a Catholic clergyman whose worldview is no doubt informed by the reforms of Vatican II. He openly accepts the choseness of the Jewish people and rejects replacement theology. He freely volunteers his affection for Jews and Judaism, and recognizes the moral standing of Halacha.

And he sees rabbis acting badly and other rabbis trying to avoid even acknowledging the bad behavior.

It isn't UOJ who is causing this chillul HaShem.

It isn't even Kolko. He's just a criminal pervert.

No the chillul HaShem is caused by the Margulieses and Belskys of the frum velt, not to mention Tuvya and the other guy, and their groupies who call us bums, losers and lowlifes. They think they can hide behind "anonymous" or fake names, but their brazen attitude is obvious even to non Jews.

At that, my fellow Yidden, is the definition of chillul HaShem.

When a Jew acts badly in front of goyim, it is literally turning something sacred into the profane, the mundane, the petty. Jews are bnai Yisrael. We are literally called by His name, and our struggles with Him are a witness to His very existence. When rabbis obfuscate and deflect, and when we allow them too, we have sullied our name and His.

NP: Just Another Band From East L.A. - A Collection : HaZe'evim aka Los Lobos