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Subject: Re: Agudat Yisrael Response
Since this subject was raised in this forum, I thought it might be
appropriate to briefly summarize the thoughts of R. Elya Svei Shlit'a at
the Aguda Convention last week on the subject of the Rabin
assassination. For those who are not aware, R. Elya Svei is probably the
preeminent spokesman for the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah in America.
Please note that these views are not necessarily my own.
He started by stating that it was a combination of Zionism and Kahanism
which caused the murder of Rabin. One of the goals of these two
ideologies is to create a strong Jew who can deal with his enemies. Amir
is the logical outgrowth of such an ideology. The chillul Hashem was
immense since the non religious are saying that it was the Torah that
forced Amir's hand.
Yet when Hashem gives these troubles to Klal Yisrael, He is sending us a
message. Boldness ("azut") is a double edged sword: it can create a
kiddush Hashem or an Amir. The Torah camp has not created an azut for
kedusha among its adherents, as a result a different kind of azut was
unleashed.
A story is told of a non-religious druggist from the city of Kelm who
had died. The Alter of Kelm said that anyone who is not pained by the
death of this druggist is guilty of cruelty ("achzariut"). Our response
to the death of Rabin should be the same.
If those representing an ideology are consistent in their beliefs, then
even their enemies will ultimately agree to the value of those
beliefs. Amir shattered this consistency. As a result, the non religious
are saying that Torah education is worse than public school
education. How can we possibly have fallen further?
The possible loss of Kever Rachel was greeted by much consternation in
the religious community, but the desecration of the Chashmonaim tombs
did not create nearly the same response.
In Israel, Hashem is the "ba'al habayis". If land is given back, it's
not because of a government decree but because Hashem has decreed. We
are now losing pieces of Eretz Yisrael for the sake of peace, the
necessity for which virtually all Gedolim agree. Yet we must also ask
ourselves if the fact that land is being surrendered and hundreds of
thousands of goyim are entering Eretz Yisrael as a result of the peace
agreement, is not the beginning of the dire process of "Taki Ha'aretz
Etchem" - the land vomiting us out.
A previous speaker at the convention (R. Chaskel Besser) stated that
Religious Zionism maintained that the hatred for the Religious
population among the general population in Israel was a result of their
not participating in the army, and withdrawing into ghettoes. Now we see
that the hatred is equally applied to Religious Zionists as well as
Chareidim. A subsequent speaker (R. Nachman Bulman) described in great
detail the pain and the daily indignities that the religious population
is undergoing in Israel, emphasizing that as we sit in America we have
no idea of how the tide of anti-religious hatred has risen in Israel.
Arnie Lustiger
Translated Speech of Rabbi Elya Svei:
It is evident today that it is not enough to have been born in Eretz Yisroel. Being born in Eretz Yisroel -- and even in Jerusalem -- does not automatically endow one with holiness. One doesn't have the compulsion 'not to bow and not to kneel'. There are so many who do bend and kneel…
Something happened about which we cannot be silent. The students in the Talmud Torahs of Jerusalem, these holy children, were exposed to the major of Jerusalem, who name, I feel, may not even be mentioned in front of the Holy Ark. This is whom was put close to the holy children in Jerusalem, so that he might speak to them. This means bowing down, and that means that they have knelt.
There has been no ruling regarding participating in the Jerusalem Municipal Government. No rabbinical organization has commented on it. It was left to individual consideration, and so we are permitted to discuss it and debate it. It is my opinion that participation in any way in the Jerusalem Municipality is questionable.
With what are we dealing here?
We are dealing with the honor of the Holy Sabbath. The Sabbath is the partner of Klal Yisroel. The Sabbath had petitioned G-d to provide her with a partner. So HaShem said, He would give her a partner, and this was Klal Yisroel. What does 'partner' mean? It means that if you work together, the partnership will bear fruit. What are the fruits that have to come out? The fruits are the witness that HaShem created the world, and that for the honor of the Sabbath, one has to refuse to participate in certain things.
What kind of tragedy would it have been if the Agudah had not become involved in the Jerusalem Municipal Government? The whole world would say that the Agudah is religious and that she has some principles which she is not ready to forfeit -- even for holy profits. Heaven's honor is at stake.
With what are we dealing here concerning the Sabbath? I was in Eretz Yisroel and I was fated to spend some time in Kiryas Sanz. In Kiryas Sanz there live very fine young men, our best young men, our bnei Torah, and they want to bring up their children in purity and holiness. Children should see a Sabbath. Why isn't it the right of these fine young men that in Jerusalem, to be able to bring up their children without their seeing desecration of the Sabbath? The authorities have built a highway which passes through their area, so that the children should see that one could desecrate the Shabbos. This tears the heart.
I have to tell you that there are in Eretz Yisroel, those who are not bowing down and not kneeling. There is a whole army of individuals in Eretz Yisroel who are not bowing down. There are bnei Torah -- and when you start to speak about bnei Torah, you start to say that they are boys (children), who run around. But we are speaking about bnei Torah -- not children who run around, but only bnei Torah who are the best young men. One is from the finest young men in Kollel Chazan Ish. Another young man is the Rosh Yeshiva in Be'er Yaakob.
The fate of the children of Teheran has become a modern tragedy. We are speaking only to our own people, so we can speak frankly. The story of the children of Teheran is a complicated one. I spoke to the Ponevitzer Rosh Yeshiva, who told me that they had made a beginning. They had hired a man of integrity, but he told me that that was only a beginning. We still have to keep vigilant.
530 children arrive in Eretz Yisroel from Iran. Of these children, only 190 are in religious institutions at this time. "Religious institutions" means, Mizrachi institutions, with the remaining 340 children in secular, free thinking institutions. Of the 340 children, 100 once learned in "Ozar HaTorah", but are now in secular institutions. The 190 children who are now in Mizrachi institutions are in a coeducational atmosphere (because boys and girls are learning together. In Iran, modesty was very important, but here boys and girls are mixed together, and that leads to complete licentiousness. Therefore, you have to know that there are in Eretz Yisroel, a group of young men to typify the finest ideals of Yiddishkeit. They do not bow before atheists. So we, the bnei Torah here in America, have to help the bnei Torah in Eretz Yisroel remain vigilant.
It says in Targum Yonosen Ben Uziel that one should not be a murderer, neither should one be friends or partners with murderers, and there should not be seen in Klal Yisroel murder. Why? Because your children should not be murderers. What does murder mean? The Even Ezra says that there is murder by one's hand there is murder by speech -- one can kill a person with a word. It is possible to be a fine Jew and still be a murderer. The Targum Yonoson says it is not enough that one alone, is not a murderer; he is also not allowed to be a friend of a murderer. Each Jew has a responsibility to Klal Yisroel in that he must insure that no Jew is a murderer. Why?
If you are only an ideological murderer, and if you won't be able to keep away from this kind of murder, your children will be real murderers.
It says, "you are not permitted to be lewd". You should not be licentious. How does lewdness come to Klal Yisroel? There are a few kinds of lewdness. There is lewdness by word or mouth and there is lewdness with the eyes. Fine Jewish homes, often contain lewd reading material. And there are fine homes wherein is put a box (television) from which enters all lewdness into the house. And this is put in a place of honor in the home! What will happen to these children? What will become of them? No Jewish home may have a television!!
It says further, in Targum Yonoson, that one should not be a false witness. I want to stop here. In public life here in Brooklyn, there is false testimony. We have merited, through blood and sweat and with the Almighty's help, to establish large Yeshivos for the boys and Bais Yaakova for the girls. And these schools produced students of whom all can be proud. But then someone comes and says that they are still incomplete. When the boys go out of the Yeshiva, they are still not finished -- they still need more studies: they still have to go to "Touro College" to be well-rounded. That is the biggest false testimony against the Torah. The boys do not need such "completeness".
One is not allowed to be friends with them! One is not allowed to be partners with them! What will be with our children? From where will our great Torah leaders come? From Touro College they will not come! And mothers of Gedolei Torah will also not come from Touro College, because the Gemorrah says that to merit children who will become Gedolei Yisroel, one has to have modesty. And modesty cannot be acquired in Touro.
Rabbi Elya Svei a prominent member of Agudat Israel's Mo'etzet Gedolei HaTorah in a speech before several thousand listeners at Agudat Israel's annual convention, called Rabbi Norman Lamm "an enemy of God." He later refused to retract his charge.
Rav Elya Svei Shlita has referred to Yisroel Belsky as an enemy of the Torah, and has added to Belky's name the words "Shem Reshaim Yirkav".
Yisroel Belsky Shem Reshaim Yirkav.
The Chashuver public that prefers instead to say Yisroel Belsky Yemach Shmo Vzichro need not change their nussach.
Rav Elya Shlita was makpid gamor not to alow Adolf Belsky speak at the Agudah conventions. Yisroel Adolf Belsky the dirty bastard refuses to say Tehilim for Rav Elya.
You are right (RAV ) Elya does need a BIG refuah shlayma. I doubt this brocho will help him as he has been very sick for many years already , even before his mind started to crumble.
He is against Cope which is an Aguda project. But will not come out publicly and say it . Dont tell me that im Ranting because i know this first hand.
I'm aware of the above historical events. Unfortunately, I believe I need to wait to respond. R' Elya...needs a refuah...now is not the time.
There's much I can add and shed light on...now is not the time. I wish R' Elya...a refuah...and rachmei Shomayim.
A shame Rav Elya is not well for so long. If he was well he would be demanding in public that Yeshiva Shaarai Torah in Monsey be closed and that Mordechai Gimpel Wolmark be ousted from chinuch forever. It would be a great zchus for the tzibbur and for Rav Elya if the Monsey community would demand that the pedophile Mordechai Wolmark move out of New York and leave chinuch forever.
I have just been informed of the existence of this blog and that Rabbi Mordechai Wolmark is a subject among the writers. This is my first time writing.
With permission of my rebbe Harav Moshe Green Shlita, who himself is not well and in great need of a refuah shelaima, I wish to make all the readers here aware that we are doing all that we can to see that Mordechai Wolmark is pushed out of Monsey and out of chinuch forever. There is a kola d'lo passak that Rabbi Wolmark has sexually abused many young talmidim at his yeshiva. The stories about him taking young bachurim on numerous occasions to shopping malls to visit stores that specialize exclusively in preitzus is absolutely true. Rabbi Wolmark had also taken a bachur of fourteen years old, which was under his special care, to be a dayan at the geirus of a young woman and allowed the bachur to see her in the mikveh. Rabbi Wolmark has made it a habit to learn Hilchos nidda and Hilchos chassanim with young teenage bachurim, which is absolutely wrong and something outrageous. According to Rav Green Shlita, there is no excuse for the misconduct of Rabbi Wolmark and that he should leave chinuch on his own and not wait to be forced out with more public disgrace.
i know first hand that reb elya shlita was the gadol that chased mondrowitz out of ny. unfortunately he ran to e.y.
"i know first hand that reb elya shlita was the gadol that chased mondrowitz out of ny. unfortunately he ran to e.y."
Prove it with details or forever hold your peace! The same should be said of those accusing Wolmark of improprieties. Either state the facts of his molestations or stop the inuendos!
Mendy Greenwald
Rabbi Green is over the top in his proclamations. He proclaimed that if Bais Din would be working Moish Finkel would be killed. He made other ridiculous proclamations as well, thus undermining his effectiveness, and leading the masses to reasonably assume that he is not fully in charge of his faculties. Did Rabbi Green never hear of the concept of Emor Me’at V’aseh Harbeh, speak a little but do a lot?
Why is he picking on Wolmark when there were other molester rebbeim in Monsey, (Go ask R’ Yanky Horowitz) who are still teaching in Monsey? Why does he allow the mashgiach of the butcher store, which clearly knew about the tarfus to live peacefully in Monsey? Why does he allow Pinny Lipschutz who glorifies, worships and praises every haimishe crook, who turns evil into awe a place in Monsey?
Monsey is an Ir Hanidachas, and so richly deserves all these sick, demented people. Let Rabbi Green keep these sickos in Monsey, where they deserve them. Otherwise, send them to Baltimore.
He did not say that Norman Lamm is a sonei Hashem (I cannot believe I am writing to someone who cannot translate it). He said that if Norman Lamm hates bnei Torah because they are serving Hashem better than him, then, according to Rabbeinu Yonah, he is a soneh Hashem. The same definition would apply to me, UOJ, or RYBS--its a classic definition from Rabbeinu Yonah. The fact of the matter is, that, whether you want to admit it or not, Norman Lamm said and did things which were very, very off in the past. Now I understand that it would not be fair to hold him to the same standard as R' Elyah and other genuinely outstanding talmidei chachomim and creative lamdonim with practical sense, but, nevertheless, he made certain statements in public which were wrong, and extremely inappropriate. If he DOES hate bnei Torah, he is, at the minimum, a soneh yisroel.
I hope you get that.
reb elya was the last, best hope for this geeration. agree or dont agree wit him, he was a leaders leader a man of conviction and strength. refua sheleima,
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