EVERY SIGNATURE MATTERS - THIS BILL MUST PASS!

EVERY SIGNATURE MATTERS - THIS BILL MUST PASS!
CLICK - GOAL - 100,000 NEW SIGNATURES! 75,000 SIGNATURES HAVE ALREADY BEEN SUBMITTED TO GOVERNOR CUOMO!

CLICK!

Tuesday, February 02, 2010

One Of The Nicer E-Mails Sent - Subject - "A Plea From Klal Yisroel"

EDITED!

"Hello- How are you?

May i ask what is the purpose of your 'Unorthodox movement"!?!?!

Don't you think there are enough people out there who are pointing our the problems our community has. Aren't there enough out-side people who underline and highlight every weed in our patch of roses. Why do you feel like you're doing a sevice to people by belittling and shaming the orthodox? Why do you think anything good can come out of an organization that's a pure lashon hara?!?!? The way your articles are written make it quite clear you're not in this l'shem shamayim. Yes, it's true there may be problems in certain communities and with certain individuals, but orthodoxy as a whole is beautiful and i'm sure as a whole orthodxy brings a nachas ruach to the RBS'O. Nothing good can ever come out of ignoring one of mitzvos is our holy Torah. So, as a loving member of klal yisroel- i'm telling you off because you're doing a lot of damage to yourself and a lot of damage to everyone who reads your articles. You won't have a very pleasant existence in Olam Haba- if you've been the cause of spreading loshen hara to hundreds of thousands of people. They say gehenim really hurts. I'm begging of you to take this seriously.

May Hashem give you the strength to make the hard, bold but correct choice.

And may you use the mind and kochos you were given to bring nachas ruach to Hashem yisborach to make up for all the pain you've caused Him.

Haltzlach.

Sincerly, "

*

What should I answer this nice lady?

UOJ - President and CEO of The Unorthodox Movement!?!?!

Let's be nice -- so your comments should address her like this:

Dear Nice Lady,

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear nice lady,

Covering up chilul Hashem only leads to greater chilul Hashem.

Rav Carlebach, the last rov of Hamburg, Germany before the Holocaust.

More Shafran b.s. to cover up for Tropper & Moetzes said...

http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2010/01/27/a-personal-note-to-cross-currents-readers/

A Personal Note to Cross-Currents Readers

Filed by Avi Shafran @ 11:10 am

I had been planning to write a follow-up message about my posting “The Earth Trembles” even before Illana B.’s comment (# 20) appeared. But her request – taking me back to my family’s wonderful years in Providence – convinced me to put aside some other pressing things and get down to addressing concerns that have been raised about what I wrote.

I have to confess that I don’t usually read the Cross-Current comments posted to my essays. To be honest, I have found that posters often seemed to not have really read the essay on which they chose to comment; and that the tone of some postings seemed unnecessarily abrasive. I receive much feedback from individual subscribers to Am Echad Resources and so I get ample thoughtful responses and constructive criticism from that source.

Having been apprised, though, of comments on various blogs that mischaracterized my words as “blaming” the Haitian disaster on “a cartoon,” I looked at the comments C-C readers had offered and, at the moderator’s suggestion, cleared those I felt deserved to be posted, and deleted those about which I felt otherwise. The latter category included repetitious comments and those that included name-calling, were crass or disparaged Gedolim. There are places on the web where such writing can feel at home. C-C is not one of them.

5) How could I call an editorial to task for its disparagement of Gedolim without commenting on the editorial’s topic – the alleged ugly wrongdoing of an Orthodox rabbi? And how could I characterize that wrongdoing as “alleged”?

6) Why have Gedolim not spoken out in condemnation of that alleged wrongdoer? Especially when they have spoken out about many other things of which they disapprove?

5) I did not consciously decide to ignore the topic of the editorial; it simply had no bearing on my own topic. Needless to say (I hope), the descriptions of the alleged behavior of the accused man leave me deeply disgusted and saddened.

But until a court of law or beis din renders a judgment of an accused individual, no matter how heinous the crime and no matter the seeming preponderance of evidence, he or she may not be referred to as guilty. My use of the qualifier “alleged” was not meant to imply a defense of the accused, only to hew to the journalistically normative (and, I believe, halachically mandated) practice.

6) I cannot speak for any Godol with regard to something I have not discussed with him. But Gedolim, too, are bound by the halacha that prohibits judgment of guilt without a trial.

When it comes to religious issues that are not subject to beis din adjudication but which they consider important (even if they are issues that some people might not consider so), Gedolim have not only a right but a responsibility to speak out. Warning the community about kashrus concerns may seem a less important mandate than condemning individuals for grave moral or ethical offenses. But kashrus concerns are part of a Jewish religious leader’s mandate, and condemning people is only arguably so (personally, I don’t think it is, unless they judge that there is a danger of the offense being regarded by the community as insignificant). And in a case where no guilt has been established by a court, condemnation of the accused is not even an option.

Dear readers, feel free to disagree – but, please, do so agreeably. Comments to this note are invited, as long as they are offered, even if in dissent, in a spirit of good will and the greater good of Klal Yisrael. Just as in any chavrusah, here too give-and-take, disagreements and even arguing can help lead to greater understanding. But just as in a chavrusah, the dialectic has to be, ultimately, between friends, respectful and aimed at a common goal.

More Shafran b.s. to cover up for Tropper & Moetzes said...

http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2010/01/27/a-personal-note-to-cross-currents-readers/

Comments

Commenters dont read the article they’re commenting on? Unnecessarily abrasive? I never got that impression. Rabbi Shafran personally may self-consciously feel that way, because readers are disagreeing with him, but to most disinterested observers, the comments in this forum are tame, moderated and substantive. I would respectfully urge caution before one calls his critics “abrasive”, or claims they’re not actually reading what he wrote. Too often we have seen that’s just a conveneint way to hide from or ignore the substance of the comments. As we would not like others to dismiss the comments and letters of Orthodox Jews and those who represent them, so too, we should not be dismissive of comments.

Comment by Y. Finkel — January 27, 2010 @ 11:29 am

“I cannot speak for any Godol with regard to something I have not discussed with him. But Gedolim, too, are bound by the halacha that prohibits judgment of guilt without a trial.”
You should inform Nosson Slifkin about this.

Also, as a matter of policy, I do not think a writer should be moderating his or her own story.

Comment by Yossie Abramson — January 27, 2010 @ 11:33 am

Serious questions about approaches to geirus and dealing with intermaaried couples should merit some statement. Is there a beis din process that has not been publicized that is investigating this situation?
The context in which the editorial was attacked described it as a major flaw that needs correction while ignoring silence from major rabbinic figures many of whom appeared at events sponsored by this discredited organization and whose institution received major contributions. It is not absurd to decry lack of leadership, particularly when the criteria for determining which issues produce public responses has not been clarified.
Yosef Blau

Comment by Yosef Blau — January 27, 2010 @ 11:50 am

Rabbi Shafran, thank you for attempting to address the readers’ concerns. But with all due respect, you seem to have missed the point of many of the criticisms. People aren’t just asking why the Gedolim did not condemn the rabbi concerned. They are also criticizing the Gedolim themselves for endorsing him and his organization which were both highly questionable even beforehand, and in light of the revelations needs to have all its past operations seriously re-evaluated. On Cross-Currents itself, Rabbi Adlerstein wrote an excellent article pointing to some of the problems; the Badatz and the Conference of European Rabbis has also not been silent. Furthermore, there is criticism of the Gedolim for there being no visible attempt whatsoever to address any aspect of this situation after the revelations, which looks especially bad in light of the large financial donations that were directed to the yeshivos by this individual. Rabbi Aba Dunner explicitly accused the rabbinic establishment of having been bought off. There is clearly substantial grounds for concern and criticism, and yet your article gave the strong message that any such criticism is “evil speech.” Is it not the case that sometimes public criticism is necessary and valuable rather than being “evil speech”? Is it not the case that sometimes silence can be evil?

Comment by Natan Slifkin — January 27, 2010 @ 3:57 pm

“But until a court of law or beis din renders a judgment of an accused individual, no matter how heinous the crime and no matter the seeming preponderance of evidence, he or she may not be referred to as guilty.”

So Hitler cannot be called not guilty? So Oswald cannot be referred to as guilty? Come on!!

Comment by Stan — January 28, 2010 @ 7:48 am

More Shafran b.s. to cover up for Tropper & Moetzes said...

Shafran responds in the comments section, part 2:

http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2010/01/27/a-personal-note-to-cross-currents-readers/#comment-381838

EJF

I have to confess my ignorance of details about EJF. Agudath Israel had no dealings with it, to the best of my knowledge, and so all I know is from what I have read – and I don’t consider that “knowing.” All that I know firsthand (because it was in a statement from the organization), is that EJF claims that neither it nor its erstwhile director was involved in gerus procedures; the group only sent prospective geirim to batei din. If that’s indeed the case, I don’t see how the alleged personal behavior of said director, no matter how vile and even if proven to be true, compromises geirus. If I’m missing something here, I hope one of you will provide it privately. But I am being forthright and honest.

Nor do I see (and here too I am being forthright and honest) how a rabbinic figure’s attendance at EJF events before its director was accused of personal wrongdoing somehow indicts the rabbi. Here, too, I’m being entirely honest. Please forgive my naivete, if that’s what it is.

As to the accused himself, I apologize up front if it outrages anyone further, but no, I will not pronounce guilt on the basis of unanalyzed tapes and popular conclusions (no matter how many the tapes, no matter how popular the conclusions). That is not meant as a defense of anyone, nor does it evidence an unwillingness on my part to feel disgusted by the alleged behavior, or to be deeply suspicious of the person accused. But until either a confession or a beis din or court provides conclusive evidence that an individual is guilty of a sin, I will always use the words “accused” or “alleged” with regard to him. If a particular reader’s posek gives him or her permission to not only suspect guilt here but to assume it and write accordingly, I will respect that reader’s doing so. But I have received no such dispensation, and respectfully request that others afford my own position similar respect.

More Shafran b.s. to cover up for Tropper & Moetzes said...

Shafran responds in the comments section, part 3:

http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2010/01/27/a-personal-note-to-cross-currents-readers/#comment-381838

GEDOLIM

It seems that I have a very different understanding of Gedolim and Jewish leadership than at least some who have posted comments. Whether born of frustration or anything else, demands (or even requests) that Gedolim “show leadership” (i.e. do what we think they should be doing) are incoherent. If a leader is a leader, it is ipso facto his choice to decide whether to do or not do something. If leaders need to hew to what some of their ostensible followers, or others, feel they should do, then they are followers, not leaders.

Yes, silence can be evil. But assuming, based one’s personal perceptions (or those of likeminded persons), that a respectable person’s silence in a particular situation is evil is an evil in its own right. And insinuating that recognized rabbonim chashuvim are useless (or worse) is profoundly wrong. “Mai a’hani lon rabbonon?” is not a sentiment Chazal considered proper, to say the least.

I realize that the sentiment may not derive from any inherent disdain of, or condescension toward, Gedolim. What I suspect is that people are insufficiently respectful of the Gedolim of our day simply because of an assumption that today’s chachomim don’t “measure up” to those of yesteryear. The truth, though, is that yesteryear’s Gedolim were criticized too by some in their time, by people who felt that they too didn’t “measure up” to Gedolim of generations yet earlier. (Even Moshe Rabbeinu, for that matter, as per the Midrash, was subject to gossip and derision.) Plus ca change… What has changed today, though, is the internet’s ability to bring together and amplify the voices and reach of critics. Yes, niskatnu hadoros (as any Godol will readily attest), but the bottom line is “Yiftach bidoro k’Shmuel bidoro.” Each generation’s Torah leaders are their Torah leaders, no less than any earlier generation’s were theirs. And let’s not forget that we, too, are part of the dor that is niskaton. Our Gedolim remain our Gedolim, the chachomim that are the einei ha’eidah for our times.

I fully recognize that the chachomim whom I consider to be those einei ha’ieda may not be the ones that others choose to follow. I respect those others’ choices and would never, chalila, disparage any Jew’s choice of a different recognized talmid chochom as his guide (even if that chochom’s approach to an issue was at odds with the position of those whom I revere). But just as I would not arrogate to judge (much less deride) that chochom’s decisions even if I personally thought they were misguided, so do I expect others to respect decisions of chachomim that I, and many thousands of others, consider to be the leaders of our generation.

All of which is not to say that any Godol is omniscient or infallible. No chochom could – or would – claim such status. It is only to say that those chachomim and their decisions about Jewish communal life deserve our respect, no less (in fact much more) than any accomplished doctor does in medical matters. One need not understand or agree with any stance to maintain respect for the one taking it. And to criticize a talmid chochom for rendering judgments about evidence entirely before him (whether a situation, an approach or a book) is, in my estimation, to chisel away at the very foundation of our mesorah, based as it is on regard for the chachomim of each generation.

I again apologize for not being able to publicly continue this conversation – which is such an important one – in this forum. But I again invite any comments or questions that anyone may want to direct to me privately. I can’t guarantee an immediate response, but I do try to respond to every respectable inquiry sent my way.

Comment by Avi Shafran — February 1, 2010 @ 3:40 pm

Chaim Dovid Zweibel Esq. said...

http://www.vosizneias.com/43921/2009/11/29/new-york-a-step-in-the-right-direction-rabbi-zwiebel-at-agudah-convention-admits-child-abuse-addiction-other-community-problems-exists-audio/

People are wondering if my speech about gambling is referring to yeshiva Chinese auctions that compulsive gamblers are addicted to.

And I'm not happy not Rav Yosef Blau criticized me in the comments here or that someone pointed out the Chofetz Chaim would not allow a lawyer to give a shmuz on hashkofo in the stead of gedolim.

Lakewood said...

Moshe Velvel Weisberg is not representing the oilem to the DA. He has met with the DA to try and have them drop the charges against Kolko. Did you forget he works for AK and Rav Malkiel Kotler. Rav Malkiel Kotler has been trying to do whatever he could to pull the Kolko Case from the DA. He is furious at Rabbi Salomon for refusing to hear the case and telling the family to pursue legal avenues. It is about time we applaud Rabbi Salomon for being courageous. He is the only Gadol that did not ignore the issue and took on the pedophiles. But he is alone recent example!His bais din convicted a child molester EG that molested many children in a playgroup and what did the Rosh Hayeshiva of lakewood do? Rav Malkiel Kotler started learning with EG the pedophile BEchavrusa. And that is only one recent incident. So we actually need some brave people who are not scared of the Rabbi Malkiel Kotlers and the Micky mouse ROTTENberg to help take these cases do the DA and hold the parents hands through the process. A new group has formed in Lakewood to help the victims and seek legal justice If you are interested in joining please send email to betzedeck@gmail.com

Survivor of abuse said...

Many of us like Joseph Diangelo and others like him have approached Rabbi Zweibel and asked for a meeting with the gedolim. They refuse to even MEET with us, so it is dreaming to think they would give us an open microphone.

Shea Fishman said...

Even with a name like Fish-man, I still forget everything that happened at YTT.

Fish Oil May Reduce Risk of Mental Illness

dBTechno - ‎49 minutes ago‎

Boston (DbTechNo) - Results of a new study suggest that supplementing daily with fish oil may reduce your risk of developing various forms of mental illness.

A Study Finds Mental Benefit of Fish Oil

Wall Street Journal

Can fish oil help guard against schizophrenia?

Reuters

Rodef emes said...

Dear Nice Lady,

Reading between the lines, you have it good. You're married, with children, and comfortable. Your husband has a makom kavuah in shul where nobody sits, and maybe a seat on the board as well. Your kids do well, and you can afford camps and vacations. You give amounts to tsedaka that are perceived by others to be appropriate, but I suspect are a lot less than what you should be giving.

The one thing you don't have is rachmonis. Let's be clear: You're a have, and the UOJ blog is the place for have-nots. The abused, the beaten, the socially awkward, the shul late-comers, the divorced, the not-so-smart or undisciplined who never quite get gemara, the occasionally unemployed, the tired, the weary, the fatigued, the outsiders. Of them you don't write about. You tell us, instead, about G-d, Heaven, Hell, and loshon hara, all abstract concepts for most of us. Real Jews, with real problems, are not on your radar screen. Preaching is, because with preaching, you can't go wrong, and it makes you look good, and feel good. Throw around a few Torah words, and who can disagree?

You need a refuah. The diagnosis is lack of rachmanis. You have too much fat around your heart, and the doctor prescribes a diet. Where do you find this rachmanis? Not in a Judaica store. Where do you find this rachmanis? That is the question. Some have it naturally, some don't. You don't have it naturally. You need to acquire it. Where, I don't know. Somewhere on the street.

Anonymous said...

Dear Nice lady

i wish that your plea and what you write Nothing good can ever come out of ignoring one of mitzvos is our holy Torah is precisly the reason we need UOJ and the blogs

The cover up by rabbonim of molesters eishes ish financial shenanigans all under the name of daas torah and the joke called aguda needs the blog to bring this to light.

I ask you nice lady please stand up in your shul and ask 4 questions to your rabbi publicly

why has aguda and ohel covered up for kolko & mondorowitz the molester ( who brought it up in the blogs)

where does a rosh kolel (shmeltzer in NMB have the chutzpa to tell people its loshon hora to listen to evidence of an affair and STDs and to protect the brother of a donor who learns in the kolel who committed this act ( all why telling people he is daas torah

3.. When was the last time aguda condemmed tropper ( still waiting by the way )

4. why is tropper still a rosh yeshiva


now do you see why we need UOJ

Anonymous said...

Dear Author,‎

What part of Orthodox Judaism is the Ribbono Shel Olam proud of?‎

Do you really think he appreciates the malicious rumors of his resignation/retirement as Supreme ‎Ruler of the world? He made the match for Adam to Chava on day number six and capably found ‎suitable matches for generations, but now suddenly he resigned/retired and is incapable of doing his ‎responsibility. Do you think he is proud of NASI “crisis” statistics and Power Point presentations at ‎Agudah orgies?‎

Do you really believe that His Torah was meant to be reformed and changed in order to protect Day ‎Schools that are “the very lifeblood of our community”? When money is at stake the Torah is ‎conveniently changed to fit the needs of Agudah’s appointed gedolim. What part of gadlus is it to ‎sentence a child to a concentration camp in Jamaica or to protect child molesters in places that are ‎supposed to be places to impart Torah al pi Taharas Hakoidesh? Just because the Agudah gedolim ‎haven’t YET suggested bringing an organ into shul on Shabbos, doesn’t mean they aren’t Reform ‎rabbis.‎

Do you think he is proud of a rabbi abusing his power of Torah in order to indulge himself in sexual ‎pleasure? Worse than that, do you think Hashem is proud of the Agudah gedolim standing up for the ‎rabbi because they believe that the sex rabbi is the provider of all money in the world? Yes, the ‎Agudah gedolim believe that Hashem is no longer offering sustenance and Tom Kaplan and his sex ‎rabbi are the source of all bracha.‎

Hashem will be so proud of the Agudah gedolim when they get Shishi this week. He will laugh at them ‎for their hypocrisy. They don’t believe Anochi Hashem, unless his name is changed to Leib or Tom; ‎they made false idols out of the American dollar; they honor adulterers and child molesters; and they ‎honor tax evaders and crooks.‎

Either follow Orthodox Judaism or Reform Judaism. If you want Orthodoxy then the Agudah gedolim is ‎not what you want.‎

Betzalel said...

Dear Nice Lady,

I have been a baal teshuva for about 13 years now. A few years ago, I would have agreed 100% with your letter. To me, it was inconceivable that a Torah-observant rabbi could do the things that are now known to be true through the newspaper headlines. Hence, the things on the Unorthodox Jew blog had to be lies, I would have thought.

Until reading the Unorthodox Jew blog and a few other blogs that are critical of our community (like Failed Messiah), my only source of information about the Orthodox community was through newspapers like Yated Ne'eman. These sources don't discuss our shortcomings. They just rave on about how great the Torah world is and how evil, vain and anti-semitic the rest of the world is.

The only way to grow is to understand oneself. The only way to understand oneself is to be truthful. If the Orthodox Jewish community is not truthful with itself, it will not be able to correct itself and we will have more scandals in the headlines.

While I don't think the Unorthodox Jew is perfect (nor does he claim to be), I believe he is doing this blog le-shem shamayim. This blog has opened my eyes to the problems that exist in the Jewish community. For this I am grateful.

Anonymous said...

The joke that is called Aguda. What the hell do they all day? A so-called Rosh Yeshiva, and founder of the geirus organization EJF, demands and receives sexual favors from a geirus candidate. The same man has a long record of alleged improprieties, including a divorce 20 years ago under suspicious circumstances. And Aguda remains silent. The EJF, Rosh Yeshiva problem is instead dumped on the local Monsey rabbis, who have no money, no budget. Aguda is the sole national chareidi organization. Their IRS Form 990 reveals a $20 million budget. They spend the money doing busy work, paying themselves salaries, by futilely seeking private school vouchers, which has zilch chance of ever becoming law in America. Aguda is a smelly disgrace, a farce, a joke, a nightmare that we wish would go away. The Jewish Observer is niftar, and Aguda is too.

Anonymous said...

What is wrong with UOJ?

He exhorts the rabbis to strictly enforce Taharas Yisroel. He wants to make sure that people understand that child molestation, adultery, homosexuality, and school and mikvah rapists are not what constitutes Taharas Mishpacha or Taharas Yisroel no matter how the rabbis try to spin things.

He wrote extensively about the importance of following the laws of kashrus. Were it not for UOJ and others Finkel, Rubashkin, Ullman, and Heinemann would still be respected members of society for the great benefits they have made to the world of cheap kosher food.

Frum= Kosher, Taharas Mishpacha, and Shabbos

UOJ has fought for two of these ideals, taht's impressive. What have you Mrs. Prim and Proper done for the Jewish world other than pontificate Avi Shafran's drivel??

DK said...

More Gedolim nonsense from R. Shafran: http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2010/01/27/a-personal-note-to-cross-currents-readers/#comment-381838

UOJ gets results said...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/02/02/2010-02-02_chuck_slip_is_showing.html

Sen. Chuck Schumer's approval rating continues to slide

Chief Doofis said...

Dear Nice Lady;

Perhaps it's true that American Orthodoxy has reached new highs. Perhaps the RBSO is proud of us. Perhaps He is not.

Why is He not proud? Have we not organized myriad minyanim, Bati Midrashim, mikvaot, Kollels, food pantries, etc? Do we not wear the "right" clothing, listen to the "proper" music, shukel at the preferred speeds? He should be proud, spo why is He not?

Orthodoxy in the US, is basically a post war phenomenon. Yes, I am a child and grandchild of pre war Americans, practiced Orthodoxy, and passed it on, but we are part of the small minority surviving the "lost generation". Much of our Orthodoxy, then, was imported in teh past 60 or 70 years. And..who imported it? Emigres, raised by the final generation of Europeans. Gedolim, nurtured by true Gedolim, survivors of Shanghai, Siberia, and Dachau.

Gedolim who arrived too soon to realize the golden fruits of this country. The handouts, the programs, the chandeliers, the $25,000 Pesach trips. The four sons in law in Kollel, the cleaning ladies, etc. I studied under ono f these "too early" Gedolim. A man who went shopping for his daughters, who pulled a shopping cart home from the supermarket, so that his grandchildren wouldn't have to wait for supper. I had a Rebbe who knew I was going to night college, whose sole complaints came when I didn't earn an "A".

Today's Gedolim, for the most part, are really sons of Gedolim. If their daddys would have been accountants, they would have been also. They are reaping a double dividend. They inherited positions they didn't work for, and live the high life they don't work for. They espouse a weird morality, care naught for the masses, and wouldn't understand the masses anyway, even if they wanted to.

They ignore the plight of the abused, children the overworked heads of houses, the abandoned wives, the at risk kids, and the harried everyone. They are concerned solely with retaining their status in the mutual admiration societies.

Yes, sweet lady, we do speak lashon hara. So does the Torah. Why do we have to learn about David's affair with Bath Sheba, Yehuda's with Tamar? Why does the Torah talk lashon hara about Miriam's lashon hara? Because there are lessons to be learned.

We live, it is true, in a "golden age" of Orthodoxy. We are however, close to the edge. Our laity is on teh path to greatness, our leadership on the path to ruin. After David and Solomon, came Rehaboam, and the dissolution of our state. Other nations, too, suffered leadership failures after achieving their greatest aspirations. After Alexander came nothingness, after Basil II came anarchy, after Bismarck came the horrors of two World Wars.

For us, whom can we gaze upon with awe? Those of us who knew a Rav Moshe, a Rav Yaacov, who knew talmidim of the Chafets Chaim or Rav Boruch Ber, who listened to the Torah of a Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, or any of the leaders of the 50's, 60's or 70's, to whom can we , and our children look for guidance? To the pitiful, second rate descendants of the above? To the Geltfresser Rebbe, to the Admor from Kovodlove? To the Rosh Yeshiva of Ahavat K'tanim (aka Yeshivat Sim na Yadcha Tachat Y'raychi)?

We are truly a "dor yatom". Perhaps blogs such as this, where a Chief Doofis, where an UOJ, where YUGUY, and all the rest of us, have voices that can be heard, are the Mt Carmel where the false prophets can be exposed, and all will be made right again.

Anonymous said...

open the NMB kolel books

it is unbelievable that the people are giving money and called a community kolel without people seeing the books

shmeltzer family gets private money from tropper and he then writes himself checks and takes a salary over 100k plus plus a ear

Boruch said...

Dear Nice Lady,

Had you lived in the years of exhortation by Yerimiyah HaNavi and cried with his Lamentations as it happened you'd realize that this crippled generation needs a voice that beseeches and implores the sheep to follow the only gadol, Hashem. Gemorrah, Navi, Torah is filled with the loggerhead of argument where the willful and the willed clash. As one writer pointed out, why do we need to know of David and BasSheva, Yehudah and Tamar? Because there are lessons to be learned. Not just to besmirch personalities. Dovid HaMelech was not a caricuture for leadership, but a leader. He had flaws. Moshe Rabbeinu had flaws. Mein tatte, A"H', gezogt der Ribono shel olam macht a mentsch. Vu shreibt in Torah the Eybishter macht a Rabbi oder a Rov? Di, Boruch, bist a mentsch.
It is with that we and others write about our failings and frailities as Hashem made Moshe write about Moshe's own failings and frailities. We've learned, dear lady. We're real.

Agudah Fresser said...

Did you hear that Shafran & Zweibel have people on the ground in Haiti?

They are there as observers to see how to distribute food to millions of hungry people that are shtupping in desperation for food.

That actually would have been a more appropriate cartoon topic for the Forward than the one with Leib Tropper.

Anonymous said...

Just a side thing- I just read this week's yated. In the letters to the editor, people were were responding to a reader who was upset that there are absolutely no female pictures in the whole paper. They were basically telling the reader that he/she does not know anything about halacha and is basically an am haaretz who has failed the bais yaakov system. I just asked around to a couple of the more learned members of my family- neither my father- in-law or brother ever heard that it is against halacha to look at a modestly dressed woman...Does anyone here have any idea??? I cannot believe how they were responding- almost scary if you ask me....

chief doofis said...

The people who patronize and read the Yated are in favor of their policy, absurd as it may be to the rest of us. Small wonder that they attacked the writer.

Anonymous said...

Is there any halachic basis to the yated's viewpoint??My husband looked up one of their"proofs" and it was totally taken out of context....???They don't even understand why a woman would be upset about it....just so not in touch....if it really was a clear cut halacha, why don't we all know about it??they actually compared it to eating treif!!!! What's the point of hilchos tznius if we are still treif???

Ahavah Gayle said...

Dear Nice Lady,

It is simply factually incorrect to say UOJ has done "damage" to shining light on the dark corners of orthodoxy. The damage was done by those who try and hide the truth. A community that cannot stand the light of day is a community that is living in darkness. Perhaps you like living in ignorant darkness, but most of us prefer the light of day, so that we can intelligently decide on the issues and decide whom to support (or not) with our hard earned dollars, time, and literary efforts. You see, we don't want to support criminals or those who harbor them. We don't want to enrich those who are enriching themselves at the expense of the poor or defenseless ones. We want to be good stewards of our resources and that means not supporting in any way those who are bringing pain, darkness, and injury - we don't want to support predators and we don't want to be prey. Feel free to turn a blind eye, if it makes you happy - but it won't protect anyone and it certainly won't drive the darkness and evil away if you ignore it. Only shining light on dark places makes them safe again.

Shalom.