So Much For Jewish Law That Can Be Altered Based On Politics And Self-Interest! The Fools And Crooks Are Running The Asylum...As Always....*
Israel’s Chief Rabbinate promises standards for conversion rabbis and to count Ivanka Trump as Jewish (several DC-area Jewish day school parents saying that they don't want their schools accepting her kids.)
Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef, right, and Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi David Lau
.
The Ashkenazi and Sephardi chief rabbis announced separately Wednesday afternoon that they would convene a meeting next week with the Chief Rabbinate Council and the Supreme Rabbinical Court to determine the standards. The conversion of Ivanka Trump, the daughter of U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, will be recognized under the new standards, Chief Sephardi Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef promised in his statement.
(Although The new standards will be set next week, 7 years after her fraudulent conversion by the RCA, Hershel Schechter and Haskel Lookstein in 2009. Whatever standards these bozos set next week will be retroactive to 2009 for Trump only) UNREAL!
“This reform is expected to stop the suffering of many converts who have been through a conversion abroad when they come to register for marriage and divorce in Israel. In contrast to the situation in the past, in which some officials in the Chief Rabbinate assumed the authority to check every case individually, now as mentioned above, every conversion that will be approved by a rabbi who is on the list of the approved rabbis will not be subject to further checking but will be approved automatically,” Yosef said.
“For example, what reached the headlines recently was the issue of the recognition of the conversion of Ivanka Trump, the daughter of the president-elect of the United States. According to the new proposed outline in which you check the converting rabbi only, their conversion would be legitimized without the need for further checking,” Yosef said.
The Chief Rabbinate is Israel’s highest Jewish authority, with control over personal status issues, like conversion, marriage and divorce. The Chief Rabbinate Council is its advisory body. The Supreme Rabbinical Court is the highest rabbinical court, which resolves disputes regarding personal status issues.
The Rabbinate released a list in April of more than 100 rabbis from the U.S. and 19 other countries whose authority over Jewish conversions it accepts. But the Rabbinate attached a letter to the list saying it was “not exhaustive” and simply included rabbis whose authority had been accepted in the past. The letter also said there was no guarantee the rabbis would be trusted in the future.
The new list will be compiled based on the standards to be determined next week, Yosef said.
The Chief Rabbinate did not respond to JTA’s request for comment.
Controversially, the Rabbinate’s April list did not include prominent modern Orthodox rabbis like New York Rabbi Avi Weiss, who founded the progressive Open Orthodoxy movement.
The haredi-dominated Rabbinate has never recognized non-Orthodox rabbis or conversions, and in the past few years it has questioned the credentials of a few leading liberal Orthodox rabbis. In September, Haaretz revealed the Rabbinate had rejected four conversions by Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwartz, the head of the Rabbinical Council of America’s rabbinical court.
In July, the Rabbinate rejected a conversion by Rabbi Haskel Lookstein, the former leader at Kehilath Jeshurun in Manhattan’s Upper East Side who converted Ivanka Trump before her marriage to Jared Kushner.
Itim, an organization that helps Israelis navigate the state’s religious bureaucracy, petitioned a Jerusalem court in 2015 to pressure the Rabbinate to be more transparent about how it determines which Jewish conversions are legitimate. That petition led to the release of the Rabbinate’s first list of rabbis. It also drew attention to Itamar Tubul, a midlevel bureaucrat who evaluates requests from Israeli immigrants seeking a marriage license and ensures they are Jewish.
Rabbi Seth Farber, the director of Itim, responded to Wednesday’s announcement with cautious optimism.
“We are incredibly gratified that the rabbinate has recognized its lack of policies regarding converts from overseas in harmful to Judaism in Israel and around the world. I hope that the outcome of this assembly will remove the insane bureaucracy that converts are forced to undergo to certify their Jewishness,” he said in a statement. “We will need to see the results of these meetings and ensure the criteria do not exclude wide swaths of the Jewish people.”
But Rabbi Uri Regev, the head of Hiddush, an organization that promotes religious pluralism in Israel, was skeptical the Rabbinate was capable of significantly liberalizing.
“With the makeup of the group that is convening next week, in my view it is very unlikely that they will come up with an agreed upon set of criteria that will be inclusive of the mainstream modern Orthodox rabbinate of North America today,” he told JTA. “They may approve of Rabbi Lookstein, not because of Rabbi Lookstein but because of Donald Trump. But there is no way in the world they will accept and legitimize the rank and file without further inquiry into individual converts.
http://www.jta.org/2016/12/07/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israels-chief-rabbinate-promises-to-establish-conversion-standards-and-count-ivanka-trump-as-jewish#.WEhoePMtcK4.facebook
20 comments:
At the annual convention of the Conference of European Rabbis held in Minsk, Belarus, conference chairman Rav Menachem Gelley announced that “Rabbis who are not authorized to perform conversions and persist in it will be banished from the ranks of rabbis in Europe.”
“We will formulate basic transparent rules which oblige all activities of European dayonim in general and particularly on the conversion process,” he said. “As a first step, we will catalogue the existing botei din, their mode of operation, and those authorized to deal with conversions.”
Click Here!
Rav Gelley told delegates that an international conference of European and Israeli dayonim was to be held next year with the participation of the Israeli Chief Rabbinate and various beis din officials in order to establish uniform halachic and administrative standards.
During the convention, delegates headed by Conference President Rav Pinchas Goldschmidt met Chairman of the Belarus Assembly Dr. Michael Myasnikovich, who suggested establishing unified initiatives to develop the country’s mekomos kedoshim, including the setting up of a shul and hotel in Radin.
“We will help in all matters to return Jewish life to its former glory, if even only to a small degree,” Myasnikovich said, adding that after a special request from the rabbonim, Belarus planned to allot a space for a Jewish cemetery. At present, Jews are buried in areas allocated to them in general cemeteries.
{Matzav.com Israel}
Shut up yourself treife! If you don't know who Menachem Gelley is you are just an idiot. Vous êtes un animal sale!!!
Mr Marks said: "I have devoted a lot of time to seeking compensation for my family who were murdered by the Nazis in Treblinka. I went there on the understanding he was going to help me with my restitution claim. "We sat in an empty boardroom and after sifting through my documents, Dayan Gelley asked me where I lived, and then commented that there weren't many Jews in Shepperton. I pointed out there are three synagogues there. "He produced my mother's death certificate. He said it was invalid, despite the fact it is signed by an esteemed advocate in Israel, where my mother is buried. He said: 'We don't recognise that.' "He looked over at me and said: 'I don't think you're Jewish. And I don't think your mother was Jewish either.'"
Hey Frenchie 'Salle au par' (or however you spell it),
The guy married a goyta which gives him halachic status in Shulchan Aruch of a NON-JEW. But Rav Gelley is still being generous by offering to help if only some legit documentation surfaces.
Alors va (or in the shprach of this blog: Take a hike)
A fascist animal like you doesn't even deserve to drink water from my dog's bowl. You are (should be "is") an ignoramus who keeps polluting this blog. If a Jew marries a gentile woman he is still a Jew. You don't know the Law idiot. Even Chabad can teach you that. Dr. Marks never had questions about his Jewish status. And Gelley simply "forgot" the Chazal: החושד בכשרים לוקה בגופו. You savage deserve that too by the way. Gelley is a filthy beheima I have known him for more than a decade. Hope one day he will question your Jewishness too.
Keep rolling around in your own merde, mon ami.
You have no clue. The halacha is that someone openly living with a goyta has a din of meshumod which means an apostate to another religion, much worse than a mechalel Shabbos who is already not bichlal Amisecha which has implications in halacha even at that stage. I am not talking about mystical ideas that a Jew cannot nullify his own Jewish soul. That is irrelevant as far as day to day practical halacha. The mystical component just allows for redeeming his good standing with teshuva only. This is besides the chiyuv karess attched to openly living with a goyta.
Some ignoramous Chabad rabbis are very good at trampling halacha while pursuing feel-good mystical concepts. They are among the biggest culprits in improper conversions as well. In their rush to populate every corner with 10,000 shluchim, only a percentage of them are learned & not corrupted by money like the Tropper-style Chabadnik who $$ chases after every intermarried billionaire in Silicon Valley.
Perhaps now that you stumbled across the no-nonsense UOJ blog, you will wake up to reality.
Because you wasted your yeshiva days in sexual encounters I will teach you little Torah you don't know - Sanhedrin 44a: אמר רבי אבא בר זבדא אף על פי שחטא ישראל הוא; Chulin 92a: אמר רבי שמעון בן לקיש אומה זו כגפן נמשלה זמורות שבה אלו בעלי בתים אשכולות שבה אלו תלמידי חכמים עלין שבה אלו עמי הארץ קנוקנות שבה אלו ריקנים שבישראל; Shulchan Aruch in Even Haezer 44:9: ישראל מומר שקידש קדושיו קדושין גמורים וצריכה ממנו גט. You obviously can't read Hebrew so get someone translate that for you. Your problem putz is your cockeyed desire to protect "rabbis" whom you don't know at all simply because they are "rabbis". They aren't! Dr. Marks has an official document that Gelley refuses to accept for whatever reason. Gelley is not "being generous" (just for writing this words you deserve a slap in the face). He is a monster who runs his own puppet show in Europe. It was no Menachem Gelley's business to launch his crackbrained investigation. And Gelley goes against the Chazal in Yerushalmi Ketubot 13b: מעלין לכהונה ללויה לישראל עפ"י עד אחד. Shaar Hamelech in Issurei Biah 20:5 writes the halacha for morons like you and Gelley: ולענין הלכה הנה לענין פסולי קהל דעת כל הפוסקים ס"ל דאפילו מי שאין לו חזקת משפחה כגון שבא מארץ רחוקה אמרינן כל משפחות בחזקת כשרות הן עומדות. Dr. Marks is Jewish. Period. Menachem Gelley is a dangerous rascal and you are a paid lackey to write blog comments for him. Next time you bastard try using your kitchen French remember: Vous n'êtes pas juif!
Quelle idiot finis alors.
It's obvious that you process things very slowwwwwwwly but try please to wrap your head around the fact that Mumar is not as bad as Meshumod, no matter how many sources you extract from database searches or your Chabad friend on speed dial about Mumar.
And living openly with a goyta is chazakah of Meshumod, not someone with no chazakah either way. Speaking of which Frenchie, are you one of those majority Tunsie, Algerian or Maroccain? Then you know what "Chzak" is in Jewish-Arabic that I heard a crude Frenchie jokingly talk about in the Ponivizh dorm one night. The Chzak you release while trying to attack Rav Gelley is coming from the wrong orifice.
When someone starts screaming his opponents are Chomos, Mamzerim & Nazis you know they are losing the argument.
So what if the Dr is assimilated? Assimilation does not remove the metzius of someone being an apikoress or meshumad. The Grach poskens like this and no one disagrees as far as I know
Shadchan (you aren't but anyway): this is not a disagreement over trivia. "Put up or Shut up" is disrespectful to the old Jewish (yes Jewish) man whom I know. And your remarks about Sefardi men are just racist like PUOSU's about my Jewish French heritage. But you like doing this under various guises aren't you?
Now to 6:33. If "Put up or Shut up" protects someone like Menachem Gelley - this person deserves any name you mentioned. This person is an enemy of Yiddishkeit. And this has nothing to do with "losing the argument". The practical aspects - מומר (mumar) and משומד (meshumad) both refer to apostates. These words are used INTERCHANGEBLY in Hebrew literature. However the first one may also refer to someone who just breaks the Law while the second one refers only to a convert to another faith. Dr. Marks is a nice friendly Jewish person. He never planned to or converted to Christianity. Gelley also didn't let his wife to convert to Judaism which is against the Rambam in Issurei Biah 14:2: ומודיעין אותו עיקרי הדת שהוא ייחוד השם ואיסור עכו"ם... ואין מרבין עליו ואין מדקדקין עליו שמא יגרום לטרדו ולהטותו מדרך טובה לדרך רעה שבתחלה אין מושכין את האדם אלא בדברי רצון ורכים. Gelley went as far as to SMILE and say: "Yes, we make it very hard for people, don't we?" Gelley is a Nazi.
Dr. Marks is not an apikoros a mumar or meshumad. Do not try to use the halacha you don't know to frame him. THAT IS JUST EVIL. He is a Jew attacked by Menachem Gelley who is a very corrupt person. As someone who knows the facts one day I will write a post how he made conversions into a business enterprise.
Ou la la! Frenchie is making so little sense. Must not be getting enough merguez protein with his cous cous.
FACT: there are of course huge differences between mumar & meshumod, despite Frenchie's insistence of being completely interchangeable. (meshumod includes someone openly living with a goyta). Not that facts matter to Frenchie who wants to mow down Rav Gelley to help the intermarried chap.
Igros Moshe 2:50 & 3:12 - Mumar can sometimes still be considered a maamin.
Pischei Teshuva 112 & Shu"t Tiferes Lemoshe - Mumar's bishul & bread is not forbidden
Bais Meir (Even Haezer) 129:5 - Mumar is still called Ben Bris
And most importantly, the Chasam Sofer (Shulchan Aruch) 39 - rabbonim have the power to cast out someone with din meshumod even if that makes the meshumod act like even more of a goy gamur that what he is now.
Some Chabad rabbis have taken the misguided approach to do kiruv on intermarrieds but as the Edah's beis din ruled recently, it is forbidden to be mekarev them. The psak was just a reiteration of what the poskim have held all along through history. Frenchie's citation of the Rambam can only help if the intermarrieds come on their own, we should not be overly harsh with them even if they were living in sin until now. But Rav Gelley can certainly demand to have proper documentation of who these people are to begin with.
What seems to be zee problem dat les Francais are fighting ici avec les Roast Bouefs?
Readers, I had to break the post into two parts due to Blogger.com restrictions.
1
"Put up or Shut up" keeps calling me "Frenchie". This person is of course a racist and he doesn't even pretend to hide that. But I will call him by his true name: neo-Nazi. And if he continues making his attacks I may publish his real name and another site where he acts like a very pious person. But he is just a hypocrite.
Nobody says that living with a gentile woman (he calls her "goyta") makes someone not a Jew. He can bring no proof to such nonsence. Instead (being an experienced lier) the neo-Nazi twists the words of others and then fights his own phantoms. The sources he cited (some erroneously - he by the way doesn't even know how to quote sources and does that only partially) are completely irrelevant to the discussion. I also wonder where he got my "citation of the Rambam [that] can only help if the intermarrieds come on their own". The Rambam I quoted (in Hebrew) talks about not being harsh with gentile converts. This just shows the neo-Nazi can't understand even the basic Hebrew. And I never said "mumar & meshumod" are "completely interchangeable". I wrote that "these words are used INTERCHANGEBLY in Hebrew literature" and pointed the exact differences. But we see that the neo-Nazi's reading is selective.
Now to the core of the issue. IF SOMEONE MARRIES A GENTILE WOMAN HE STILL REMAINS A JEW. That is the Jewish Law - the Halacha. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A QUOTATION FROM THE SHULCHAN ARUCH THAT SAYS OTHERWISE. REST ASSURED IT DOESN'T EXIST. But we see that the neo-Nazi acting on behalf of his guide "rabbi" Menachem Gelley disagrees. How is that possible?
2
You see - Menachem Gelley learned at Ponevezh Yeshiva in Israel. On December 14 @ 4:22 the neo-Nazi wrote (above): "Then you know what "Chzak" is in Jewish-Arabic that I heard a crude Frenchie jokingly talk about in the Ponivizh [=Ponevezh] dorm one night. The Chzak you release while trying to attack Rav Gelley is coming from the wrong orifice". For those who don't know - "Chzak" ("strong" in Hebrew) here refers to an erected penis.
Just stop for a minute: You would think that students at that yeshiva spend their days studying the Law to purify themselves and become knowledgeable leaders? No - THEY TALK ABOUT ERECTED PENIS. (A friend of mine was actually molested in that yeshiva.) We see that Menachem Gelley + the neo-Nazi studied there. Then Menachem Gelley became a rabbi who now decides who is a Jew. Would you trust these people?
Would you trust the neo-Nazi who says (December 14 @ 3:21 above) that the credible Chabad.org is populated by "some ignoramous [ignoramus] Chabad rabbis" who "are very good at trampling halacha while pursuing feel-good mystical concepts"?
Now try to put yourself in Dr. Marks' shoes (the neo-Nazi calls this nice 80-year-old Jew "the intermarried chap"): You know you are a Jew, your family was killed by Nazis in Treblinka, you have a valid birth certificate, parents marriage certificate, their death certificates - all showing you are a Jew. Then someone says you are not (bureaucratically demanding yet another document - "We don't recognise that") and turns your life into hell. That same "rabbi" who smiled and didn't let Dr. Marks' gentile wife become a convert. (It was not Dr. Marks who wanted to become an apostate but his wife who wanted to join Judaism!) Would you think that "rabbi" is an upright individual?
The answers to the rhetorical questions above are obvious to anyone who knows the Jewish Law, cares about the Jewish nation and is an honest person regardless of nationality. As far as "Put up or Shut up" and his patron "rabbi" Menachem Gelley are concerned - they are the destroyers of Jewish nation who walk in the footsteps of Hitler. I will just repeat my earlier post: "You are the modern Nazis. And your fate will be that of the German Nazis".
Frenchie,
Even though the French are usually quick to surrender, you are tres stubborn with your agenda and continue to blur & alter facts. Now sit down & munch on some fromage while you get the lecture you need.
There are various indisputable binding halachos even though not explicitly spelled out in Shulchan Aruch. Some examples are din meshumod for openly living with a goyta as well as chiyuv karess for living with her. And cherem min Hashamayim for someone who ignores beis din shel matta where the beis din neglects or is not able to issue the cherem themselves. These are not the only examples.
Evidently it is you with the comprehension problems. An intermarried goy asking to convert still fits into the Rambam's words of a goy asking to convert.
I don't know where your origins in the African Mahgreb are, whether Tunsie, Algerian, Libyan, Maroccain or mountain man Berber. There are going to be different dialects. As I have no clue in Jewish-Arabic I asked multiple Sfardim of Maroccain origin and they told me Chzak means passing of gas. If your definition is correct in any way then perhaps the fellow in the dorm is even more crude than I imagined.
http://forward.com/video/325655/happy-hanukkah-for-ashkenazim-only/
But alas he is from your camp, not mine.
It is quite obvious that you have anger management issues on a most primitive level. You should seek professional help before you engage in any more paranoid conspiracy theories to slander people on blogs.
For anyone else reading this, some of the documents from Marks are not from sources considered valid in halacha.
If a person is born a Jew, they can never lose their Jewish status!
Rabbi Mendlowitz is correct as far as a Jew not being able to nullify his own soul and that he is still held accountable by G-d for not behaving as a Jew after becoming an apostate. But there is a halachic status of apostate as far as how the sinner is viewed & to be considered by the Jewish community. Of course the apostate can change that for the better & be reinstated if he repents.
There is no G-d given right to be accepted into a matchmaking or dating group. Frumster, before it was sold to secular company, was told by their rabbonim to exclude anyone they could determine was not Orthodox. Even Patti Stanger on Bravo Channel has criteria which is that clients have to be rich. So lehavdil if the British site lets the London Beis Din decide who joins and they don't like that Marks lived all the years with a non-Jew & likely celebrated Xmas with her, it is kind of odd that some self-"righteous" French sounding guy is attacking Rabbi Gelley.
What Dayan Gelley is doing in this instance sounds legit to me.
Unlike the manufactured case against the Dayan, there was an actual racist outrage that happened with a yeshivishe shidduch group that blacklisted a bochur. The narrow minded secretary asks a million questions about family background & writes everything down for the participating yentas to see. One bochur was never red a shidduch by them all the years, why? Because he was honest when they needled him & he revealed the big horror that his maternal grandmother was Sfardi & his mother was born in a Sfardi country. Well, they did red him ONE shidduch - a divorced Sfardi woman with 3 kids.
REFOEL BEREL IS A GAY MAN SUPPORTING URANIAN MENACHEM GELLEY!
GOOD GELLEY IS DEFROCKED GELLEY!
Rabbi Menachem Gelley's father was the head of KAJ kosher supervision during the 2004 Agriprocessors animal cruelty scandal, and KAJ was the final word of Agriprocessors kosher procedures – including the throat ripping with a meat hook that was cited by the government as inhumane and in violation of humane slaughter law, and which led experts to call the anial abuse at Agriprocessors some of the worst they had ever seen.
Today, Gelley's son's (Menachem Gelley's) organization, the Conference of European Rabbis, has acted much the same way KAJ did at Agriprocessors, meaning it has done nothing to clean up humane slaughter abuses at plants producing kosher meat and it has denied that those very evident abuses exist.
If kosher slaughter is banned in parts of Europe, some of the blame will rest squarely on Gelley's shoulders, both for creating the worst violation of humane slaughter law even linked to kosher slaughter and for refusing to tell the truth or to correct evident problems.
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