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Tuesday, June 06, 2006

EXTREMELY URGENT-RABBI SHLOMO MANDEL OF YESHIVA OF BROOKLYN-CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY! AT: a_unorthodoxjew@yahoo.com

155 comments:

boog said...

UOJ;

Are you sure Mandel has Internet access??

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Boog,

I hope someone in the community has the sechel to contact him and tell him his yeshiva is on the line if he ignores the message.

boog said...

Indeed.

Anonymous said...

fuck off uoj-get off your high horse and dont bring down everyone cuz of a few rotten apples.your blogseems to be for unsofisticated frum people who-no pun intended get off from this shit. you are essentialy throwing out the baby w/ the bath water. this message is coming from someone who knows the system well. has been there-in the frum world,is no longer practicing but still respects and has strong connections with that world and see no need in taking down the yeshivas.are you doing anything to make them better?? by just taking out the molestors,you are not solving the problem.you have to be making significant changes to a fucked up system. if you are doing that great,but if you arent you are just doing a half assed job that in the end wont really accomplish anything.
take care of the corruption but dont let it happen again. because you know as well i do what happens there is a big shit at the beginning and then everything boils over and business is back as usual.
in short dont throw out the baby with the bathwater.

uojworshipper said...

Even if some shaygetz with internet access tells him about it, how can he respond without being oyver by going on the net himself?

And speaking of this, isn't it true that the internet is the real cause that rabbis have been sexually abusing and enabling molesting for over 40 years from before the internet was even invented (by Al Gore)?

That's good news, because now in Lakewood where there is a cherem for having the internet in the house, we won't have any more problems with molestation. Not that any existed ever, chas V'Shalom.

Nutin' but the Emes said...

Hey anonymous,

Be anonymous - don't be an ignoramus! OF COURSE the yeshivas have tons of problems - we insiders know that already.Let's see - Start with some unqualified teachers, throw in some obscenely rich ba'alei batim who have zero background in education, yet they make all the rules and policies for the yeshiva and THEY are the board of directors(ever notice that these folks are usually the parents of the most monstrous,despicable kids in the school?),add to that a spineless menahel or rosh yeshiva who must comply with all that the board demands of him(in fact, it's in his contract - he must be a zonah to the directors), and top it off with overworked, underpaid rabbeim who may or may not get paid this month(like the last three or four months) depending on whether the cook, janitor, exterminator, heat, water, electricity, parking fines, country club dues, and bungalow deposits have been paid. Yesiree, that's the way to motivate our children's Rebbe, and it's a good thing that many prominent poskim allow us to exploit them and not pay them in a timely manner.
And then, of course, we have the molestors.
So you, anonymous, say that if we can't solve the whole problem, don't even try solving part of it.
I DON'T BUY IT, and I think most readers here will agree with me.
As you rightly pointed out, the entire system needs a complete overhaul and reboot. But Rome wasn't built in a day, You don't become a lamdan overnight, and we must start SOMEWHERE. And most importantly, when the safety and well-being of our children is threatened, a strong immediate response is required. Don't be so critical of UOJ - he certainly seems highly motivated, and perhaps he DOES have a personal vendetta against the "frum" system, but there is definitely a problem, and he is definetly getting results. Don't shoot the messenger.

Nutin' but the Emes

Tzemach Atlas said...

Why only misnagdim? What about chasidim?

Anonymous said...

dont know YOB from a hole in the wall...
i just dont think this is a menchlicht way of dealing with issues...
UOJ call yob, if u dont their # anywho.com it and call them if u want to reach them,,,
its not menshlicht to act in this way....

in any of these cases innocent until proven guilty....
if u think a crime was committed, report it to the cops...report it to a gadol..
dont make rquests online for a rosh yeshiva to email u?!?!??!?

wheres the kavod???

also u must remember that kids today have access to the net...

kids are reading ur stuff... becareful...
this stuff could corrupt innocent kids...

god knows who is innocent who is guilty..
this is nor UOJ job..or my job...

If any1 thinks some1 has done a crime call the police!!!
dont post motzai shaim ra online

kishmich said...

uoj will do what he wants he has no morals

Anonymous said...

This just goes to prove that UOJ does not have the kadurim to go after GUR. Trying to start up with some 2 bit mosod when we all know where the trouble is realy at. I see UOJ has no problem attacking the Besht but Yankel Gerrer is a different story. Don't beleive this BullCrap about Lazerson running to Israel he will be back sooner then you can imagine.

gross said...

Shlomo Mandel deserves absolutely zero kavod. He is a rasha.

Anonymous said...

Why only misnagdim? What about chasidim?

me thinks chasidim jave no such issues at least I know Lubavitch had none over the past 30 years that I ever heard of nor does Belz as far as I know going back 25 years.

Anonymous said...

i have no idea what/who uoj's latest target is, but the comments about the rich kids must sting a little. Are you suggesting someone who comes from such a famous house, with so many plaques, could somehow be obnoxious? Impossible. Daddy said he can do whatever he wants, so all he does is learn.

MINAGID said...

You are very naive to think that this issue does not exist by chasidim.
Gur - Krasno to name a few.
Lubavitch has enough sexual issues going on in Crown Heights btwn kids that it is not even news to report it.

Anonymous said...

why is uoj looking for that looser mandel?

Nutin' but the Emes said...

Do Chasidim have these issues???

NAHHHH, OF COURSE NOT!!!! All is fine in tishville, even though they go to the mikvah en masse every day, nothing could POSSIBLY go wrong!!! Don't you know that if you polish enough diamonds and curl up your Payos enough, you become a completely asexual being??? Your yeitzer harah just disappears. - GET REAL, PEOPLE!!!

Nutin' but the Emes

Misnagid2 said...

Everyone knows that when you throw out a Homo from a litveshe Yeshiva they always end up in a Chasidshe one - It seems that it is not looked at as that bad there.

OrthoRev said...

Please see the message from Anon above- It will be Exhibit 4 in the case to prove that "Frum is Indeed a Mental Disorder."

Rape of children is the issue..

The Mental Disorder replies:

"Why don't you call YOB directly after looking up the number"--- (clearly and obviously not the words of a rational and sane, I won’t even expound)

"Where's the Kavod"

Here it is- this proves it- it IS a mental disorder- there is no other way that a normal sane rational person response to this blog , current events and Yidi “The Rub” Kolko- can be--- (ready for this)... "where's the Kavod"?!?!?!?!?!

If this persons kids was bleeding in the street would she look up the number of the local doctor in "anywho.com", hope he listens and gives here an appointment-- all while making sure to display proper kavud.

Classic Bal Peor'ism

Frum is a Mental Disorder

I am not mental..

Let the flaming intensify....

OrthoRev.

P.S. For those who are dying to know-- YES, UOJ is my idol (I sincerely look up to him and actually admire him) and it would give me tremendous emotional pleasure if he acknowledged me on his board. Thanks for asking.

OrthoRev said...

UOJ- if you don't mind, please re-post. Many thanks- OrthoRev.

Anon-

You actually asked the jackpot question- I really do appreciate it (no sarcasm at all). Now to attempt to adequately explain what may be a somewhat amorphous (and hard to explain) position.

Query: If one was locked in a closet from the ages of 2- 16 and repeatedly raped with a sidur while the raper was wearing tefilin- in such a case, if that such child can never bear even the thought of davening- is he committing an ‘averah’? Well, it IS a positive commandment to daven/wear tefelin-- so will God send him to hell for this?

Now- if you say the answer is yes- then I have nothing further to say to you as you are undoubtedly (yes, you guessed it) crazy. And, you view the god you supposedly serve as a sick, sadistic, disgusting, vile, evil, be’haima, piece of slime garbage.

However, if you understand the tension between 'life circumstances' and what is 'Min Hadin' asur- you will start understanding the basis of all my posts.

Brooklyn Orthodoxy trounces upon the whole concept of bechira and that is why there is no Judaism being practiced in Brooklyn (maybe such religious practice would qualify as B'al Peor-ism).

Judaism Facts Not Recognized By Brooklyn Apercursim:

1. One does NOT get punished for every 'averah' that one commits (as stated, you do not have bechira not to do every averaih).

2. In fact, you do NOT get punished for most ‘averaihs’--

Proof:

If you were a king and sent out 100 armed soldiers who faced off against 150 equally trained and armed opposing soldiers- and your soldiers lost the battle- could such a king possibly have any complaint?? Of course not! You were out-maned and out-armed- what should you, what could you have done? [Again, unless this is the sick twisted behima- as the Bal Peor-ism in Brooklyn claim- such a vomit god would be able to dream-up a ‘taneah’).

In fact, the king could never have a ‘taneah’ unless it was an EQUAL and EXACT fair fight. Such a 'fight' occurs quite infrequently (note to crazies- it is here where you can go nuts and whine “why- god can make all these 'exact' 'equal fair fights, all the time, every second of the day).

3. Kidud Av Vi'am does NOT apply to abusive/crazy parents. Here is where the crazies again go crazy. That G'marah-- (which they stupidly site) about the tanah who still respected his mother even though she spat and cursed at him-- proves MY point. See tosfos there (which they conveniently ignore), that the ONLY reason he was to honor her was because she was 100% PHYSICALLY INSANE TOTALLY (i.e. very bad case of Schizophrenia that requires a mental institution). Of course, if she was just a disgusting mother, who had no basic respect for her son’s emotional well being (and not clinically insane) then of course, of course, one should not listen at all (see your local rabbi- if spitting back is appropriate).

More to come...let the flaming continue...

OrthoRev

June 06, 2006

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

OrthoRev,

You and I definitely agree that Charedi Judaism is out of control.

There is no Judaism without sechel, and that's gone.

You're a good man OrthoRev and make some real valid points. Come back as often as you like.

Your friend,
UOJ

kishmich said...

GROSS JUST BEC U ARENT HAPPY WITH UR YOR YIIDISHKEIT DOESNT MEAN U HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING UOJ SAYS U ARE ALLOWED TO THINK FOR UR SELVE

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

R' Gross,

Above Kishmich is our friend Shlomo from Detroit.

Welcome home Shlomola you brilliant lawyer putz. I heard you were laid off the GM assembly line because you didn't know where to put the wheel.

Auto Report World Editors said...

I was talking with my mother about some of these scandals and she reminded me about an event some years ago that sheds some light on both sides of the issue - the need to treat accusations as credible in order to protect possible victims, and the need to protect innocent people's reputations.

When I was a kid, my mom worked part time as a bookkeeper and sales clerk for a Judaica shop, one of two in this city at the time. The proprietor, now deceased, was a very frum man, European, a survivor I believe. He was widely rumored in the Jewish community to have acted inappropriately with female customers in the narrow aisleways. My mother insists that he never tried any funny stuff with her nor witnessed anything in the store, though she heard the same rumors. She didn't believe them, btw, and she's not the kind of person to disbelieve rumors. She loves malicious gossip. She also has mentioned when men have hit on her (she and my dad were at a party w/ Moshe Dayan, the Israeli general and politician, and she claimed he made "googoo eye" at her). I never met anyone who was personally groped by the store owner, and based on my mom's testimony, I just think that the guy looked like a dirty old man, so folks believed it.

Interestingly, my mom did have an experience with a frum sex offender. While working at the store she got to know some of the wholesale jewelery vendors that supplied the store. Mom has always enjoyed jewelry. Dad could always appease her with some nice bauble, and she bought a number of pieces herself. My mother may be nuts, but she has pretty good taste in jewelry. After she stopped working at the store, she'd help out one of the vendors, a chasid from NYC. He'd come to town with his big display case on rollers, and she'd drive him around to his customers, since he didn't drive - she may have even been his interpreter for some customers since I recall him speaking only Yiddish and Hebrew. I'd speak to him in Hebrew - went to a day school, and Yiddish is mom's first language. I also seem to recall him staying at our house a couple of times when he couldn't get a reservation at his usual hotel - he might even have eaten in our home - at least things that could be prepared to his satisfaction there - and he was very frum. A very nice man. He gave me a Kitzur Shulchan Aruch set w/ translation for my Bar Mitzvah. I still have it. My parents weren't shomer shabbas, but Mr. B. treated them with respect. My parents were invited to his children's weddings.

One of those weddings was in New Square. This was back in the early 70s, I believe. My parents were being hosted in New Square at someone's home and my mother said that an adult male in the community exposed himself to her. Now my mom is prone to exaggeration, but it was credible enough to my dad that he made a stink about it, however, since it was ultimately the word of a woman, a non-frum woman from outside their community, it was not believed. Some time later, the same man was indeed caught molesting a child. Mr B., to his credit, apologized to my parents, particularly my mother, for not believing them. He was honest and said that one reason she wasn't believed was because she was not part of that community nor religious and he was deeply sorry for that. I think he felt some personal responsibility for the subsequent molestation.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Kishmich zocht:

GROSS JUST BEC U ARENT HAPPY WITH UR YOR YIIDISHKEIT DOESNT MEAN U HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING UOJ SAYS U ARE ALLOWED TO THINK FOR UR SELVE

Gross appears to be happy with his Yiddishkeit. It's the frumkeit of yutzes like Kishmich that most likely saddens him.

As for thinking for ourselves, Kishmich, whenever we do that, yutzes like you call us apikorsim.

Anonymous said...

UOJ
If he actually does e-mail you how will you know it is him and not someone impersonating him like many on this blog like to do?

Anonymous said...

UOJ
If he actually does e-mail you how will you know it is him and not someone impersonating him like many on this blog like to do?

Warren Buffett said...

UOJ,

Does this mean that your ex-NYPD investigator has some circumstantial or credible evidence against YOB mechanchim?

Anonymous said...

orthorev...
use original slogans...ripping off michael savage isnt original...

especially not using it correctly,

no one is saying to defend a molester...
what i am saying is to act like a lone ranger, ripping apart every1 and any1 in ur way is wrong...
if some1 thinks there is an issue go to a gadol in our community,
go to Rav David Cohen, Rav Hillel David, Rav Pinchus Breur etc...
Or go to a rav like rabbi goldwasser who would probably know how to handle a situation like the allegded very well.

blasting and yenting and spreading lashan hara and motzai shaim ra online is NOT the way to do it...
Patting eachother on the back and thinking ur making a difference is ludicrous... ur doing nothing but entertaining ppl during work hours!!

call a rav

Bibi Netanyahu said...

"she and my dad were at a party w/ Moshe Dayan, the Israeli general and politician, and she claimed he made "googoo eye" at her"

That must have been the eye with the patch.

It's also zogt. "Zocht" would be more similar to "zucht" which means searching.

Shloime Dachs said...

"go to Rav David Cohen"

For some strange reason that people can't fathom, Rav Dovid Cohen has been acting odd in this case. He first said he would help nail Kolko but he is now actually defending Margo.

Like I said, no one gets it.

Ricardo Montalban said...

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/scrapbook/3/Sbk/3/fis0102l.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Villechaize,%20Herv%E9

Margo must be on some kind of "Fantasy Island" if he thinks he's coming out of this with his feathers intact.

The mental midgets that surround him keep babbling that his "plane" is coming in for a smooth landing.

gross said...

Above Anonymous:

The rabbonim you mention don't give a crap; we would've heard from them by now, so stop with the motzei shaim ra/lashon hora BS already!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor,

Thanks for your support - great story about your mother! What really saddens me is that "fierce" opponents like Kishmich have such poor language skills. Makes one wonder about the “educational” institutions they so vehemently defend.

gross said...

Above Anonymous:

The rabbonim you mention don't give a crap; we would've heard from them by now, so stop with the motzei shaim ra/lashon hora BS already!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Editor,

Thanks for your support - great story about your mother! What really saddens me is that "fierce" opponents like Kishmich have such poor language skills. Makes one wonder about the “educational” institutions they so vehemently defend.

Jew On Coney said...

Dovid Cohen Would be matir Bill Clinton's BJ from Lewinsky if thought he'd get an invite to the White House melave malke.
Cohen is a piece of shit-2 faced prick.

Telz Angels said...

Who says Shloyma Mandel should be scared of UOJ?

Maybe the old boy Telzers will come to his rescue like Moshe Scheinerman and "Shorty" Rabinowitz the Munkatcher.

Flatbush Rabbi said...

Dovid Cohen, oich meer a gadol.

John Gotti Jr. with a beard.

Michael Koplen said...

R' Dovid Cohen claims that people trying to take down Margo are biased, just have it in for him.

A pretty weak argument if there ever was one. Show me one guy who went through Temimah that doesn't have it in for him. So what now? You can never take down a corrupt gangster if he's not popular enough to run for President?

George Dubya Bush said...

Heh. Margo is a bad man.

UOJ is a man of peace.

Anonymous said...

I can personally agree david cohen is a piece of shit. From a personal experience.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Reb Gross,

You are most welcome. I, too, have noticed their poor language skills. I believe that comes from ignoring the ma'amar that teaches that the Umot HaOlam have knowledge. I don't care if my son speaks Yiddlish/Yeshivish in the community so long as he understands that in a job interview he has to use standard midwestern American English.

UOJ, if Shlomo is who I think he is, his academic background is in medicine, not law, he works for another locally owned auto company - it was founded by a great lover of the Jews - not GM. He's no idiot - even Bill Gates knows how smart he is.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Hey guys, they are having the anti-internet presentation here in Detroit next Sunday - I'm guessing using a video presentation unless the speakers are coming in live for the event. They are renting a hotel ballroom for the presentation. I wonder if the money spent on renting the hall could have been used to help a family with their tuition expenses.

I'm thinking of going on the odd chance they will allow comments from the audience. If so I'll simply comment that the proposed ban has more to do with suppressing dissent and criticism of our 'leaders' than it does with keeping our homes free of shmutz, that the internet banners are more concerned with silencing talk about pedophile and predatory rabbis than they are in keeping our homes pure of evil influence.

Human nature has not fundamentally changed since all of those Lo Ta'asehs were given, and you can kill someone with a hammer just as easily as you can build a shelter for the homeless.

In an earlier day, when the cost of publishing was high, the rabbinate could suppress dissent with the occasional book banning. Who will risk an investment in a controversial topic? Even today they can damage an author's parnassah (cf. R.Slifkin). However, the internet has virtually eliminated the barrier to publishing your thoughts. Most seforim over history have been self published, I believe. The authors' were as interested in spreading their ideas as they were with selling books. The internet and blogs are an ideal way of spreading your own ideas and chiddushim. The rabbinate finds itself now unable to suppress dissent, so they ban the means of dissent.

Pinky Green said...

Why is everyone picking on my buddy Dovid COhen? Be quiet or I'll buy him another building.

OrthoRev said...

First, I would like to formally thank UOJ for calling me his 'friend'. I am not ashamed to say- it has made my day--possibly my week (non-sarcasticly).


Now.. to deal with "the pieces of crazy.."

Dear Anon (i.e. piece of crazy).

1. I actually said I am ripping off Savage and specified that I was NOT being original- do you have an issue with non-originality? Should I ask goldwasser if non-originlaity is allowed or perhaps it is a pre-curser to motzei shem rah? (FYI- the “ask a rav” stupidity etc. ranks up there with the "ultimate in super-original thinking that this generation has ever seen".

2. "Nothing was accomplished"- Do you mean OTHER than Yidi "The Rub" not teaching in TT anymore. Yesterday, The Rub did not molest in TT (since he was not there). I guess you would view that as set-back and not an accomplishment.

Let's see what other stupidity was in your post...

"Call Goldwasser or Breuer"- Man, you will never ever get it- and do you know why?-- because YOU HAVE A MENTAL DISORDER. I am really, really serious- your singular focus on a rav/motzei shem rah evidences a real neurological condition (very seriously).

Again, you are ill. The illness was caused by being taught B’al Pero'ism (this is what is taught in the Brooklyn/Passaic yeshivas- as what they are taught is only useful if you wish to take a dump in front a statue).

Ok… more of your stupidity...

Oh- "we are just entertaining during work hours"- Do you have an issue with work hour entertainment as well?? Does Goldwasser have a shita on work-hour entertainment?

Please, please, intensify the flaming..

"FRUM IS A MENTAL DISORDER" (#12 on Amazon)

OrthoRev.

Naftoli Spiegel said...

http://chaptzem.blogspot.com/2005/05/naftoli-spiegel-gets-beaten-up-in-boro.html

Telz Angels my foot. The Munkatcher is about as tough as chopped chicken liver. It's a different story though if he unleashes his goon squad.

Marc Rich said...

So what's the deal with Dovid Cohen? If Mr. Tough Guy is one of the only rabbis who isn't impressed with money because he's got it himself, why isn't he willing to hear out the parents who have been threatened by Margo?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

OrthoRev,
I gotta hand it to you, You pegged this one perfectly.

YUDI THE "RUB" WAS NOT MOLESTING ANYONE IN TT YESTERDAY!

WHERE WERE THE GEDOIIILIM WHEN HE WAS MOLESTING KIDS IN TT???

SITTING ON THEIR FAT ASSES THINKING OF MORE CHUMRAS!

litvak said...

Litvish yeshivas dont know how to handle cases of pedophilia because the sexual abuse of boys (and homosexuality in general)was virtually unknown and non-existent among jews in the lita.

Albert Einstein said...

UOJ,

Orthorev is the most unpopular and fringe figure on this page. Even those of us who are fed up with corrupt rabbis find him to be a raving lunatic and a big turn off.

It's my humble opinion that you're not helping your cause by exchanging slaps on the back and platitudes with him.

John Q. Publicstein said...

It is clear that with the proliferation of posts on this and other blogs that a grassroots movement against established Orthodoxy is well under way and gaining significant momentum.

Consider the fact that if you could ask Tendler in Monsey what the single most damning tool used against him was, the response would not be the audio tapes that were played for rabbonim and his congregants.

Without a doubt the blog was the single most influential medium - more so than the tapes - that has resulted in his removal and the continued infighting in Monsey.

There is no doubt that the blogging not only served as a conduit for disseminating information, but galvanized the community and its leaders into taking the action that ultimately resulted in Tendler’s loss of his pulpit.

While the final chapters of the Tendler saga have not been played out, it could be argued that had Tendler focused on the substantive issues, the what and the why, as opposed to the who, he would not be facing his harshest critics in his own backyard. No doubt his intent was to engage in ad hominen attacks that he hoped would shift focus from the substance of the allegations against him. Left to answer only the allegations and not their sources, Tendler’s most effective defense was neutralized. The blog was instrumental in shifting the balance of power away from Tendler and his supporters to the clear majority convinced that regardless of his guilt, Tendler was unfit to serve in any capacity.

Much the same can be said for the music Kolko is now facing. While the rumors have doggedly followed him for decades, not until UOJ blogged his way into the history books, was Kolko removed from his position and access to young boys.

Established orthodoxy, if history is any sort of guide, will react in a belated and inappropriate fashion to this kind of movement.

Our “leaders” will not lead, they will dictate. They have forgotten the preschool rhyme about walking in front of those that may not follow. As issues like microscopic contaminants in water and questionable handling of human hair consume their thoughts, and the groundswell of anger and contempt for abuse in the community rises, the void for true leadership will only magnify the problems facing Klal Yisrael today.

The current call to arms, highlighted by the Lakewood ban, and more recently, the asifah against internet use in Monsey, is focused on painting the internet solely as a critical danger and porthole to a world of pornography and obscenity that is unparalleled in our time.

This does not reflect merely a simple-minded lack of understanding of how the internet should be utilized. Certainly, there is no doubt that criminals troll chat rooms for victims. There is no doubt that a simple typo on Google can lead to a screen full of nudity. Accordingly there is no doubt that strict filtering and vigilant monitoring of the net is critical to a Torah-true home.

But the internet has, and will continue to provide, a means of communicating with masses of people who only need a common url to congregate and inform each other, exchange ideas, formulate strategies, plan and take action.

So bans of any kind on halachic grounds will miss the mark entirely, in particular because rabbinic abuse has been the first and foremost target of orthoblogs. So empowering in nature, any effort at widespread bans will only be met with either covert activity or outright contempt.

Clearly we are experiencing a revolution in frum communities. Responsibility and accountability, two sometimes very vague concepts in Orthodoxy, are very much in play. It is much too soon to tell how all this will play out, but it is certainly an exciting time. Torah values are very real and very dear to a lot of people. Let us hope that the information superhighway leads to the Promised Land.

jsafe said...

Shanda! Shame! Chillul Hashem!



Domestic violence and child abuse exist in the Jewish community; they cross all socio-economic levels and religious denominations. They exist despite the denials, despite the skepticism that such ugly behavior can exist among our people always so proud of our exemplary home-life; despite the fear that exposing them will bring Jews into disrepute; and despite the apprehension that our reputations will be tarnished. Such fears dare not allow our people to suffer violence and abuse!

By continuing to deny and refusing to act we shirk our responsibilities to our daughters and sons, our mothers and sisters, our fathers and brothers. The problem is systemic.

The Jewish community has no single hierarchy or unifying infrastructure that enables it to set standards for training or to hold professionals responsible in these areas. There is no standard for institutional protocols and response. Thus, the response of rabbis, teachers and counselors to survivors of abuse is only as good as their training and experience in identifying and dealing with these issues. Too often, it’s inadequate.

Enter JSafe…

JSafe: The Jewish Institute Supporting an Abuse-Free Environment works to promote a Jewish community in which all of its institutions and organizations conduct themselves responsibly and effectively in addressing the wrongs of domestic violence, child abuse and professional improprieties, whenever and by whomever they are perpetrated.

Through its certification program, publications, and educational initiatives, JSafe promotes universal gold standards for training and policies that prevent abuse, that ensure that survivors are treated supportively and appropriately, and make perpetrators accountable, thereby promoting a safe environment for all children and adults.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Mr. Publicstein,

I commend you for the "best post of the year" award.

It would be nice to see this level of commenting continue.

Yasher Koach for the brilliant insight to the problems we are facing, I could not have said it better myself.

Please come back anytime and often.

UOJ

OrthoRev said...

Dear Albert:

1. The "everyone" hates him- argument is very preschool in nature (i.e. when faced with an insurmountable logic- start name calling). I am, frankly, embarrased for you.

2. In any event, you are such a dumb F**K- you pick a moniker of someone (Einstein) who actually was considered 'fringe' 'revolutionary' 'different' to complain about 'fringe..'!

3. If you look over my previous brilliant posts- I have a 90/10 ratio of agreement and intellectual dialogue and a 10% minority of 'pieces of crazy' (i.e. you) whining non-sensible girlie emotional 'its not fair” “don't let him posts” “his posts scare me” “we don’t like him'.

FRUM IS A MENTAL DISORDER

YOU ARE A MENTAL DISORDER

I, on the other hand, remain..

OrthoRev

Anonymous said...

Remember, the majority of Nazi leaders convicted at Nuremberg after WWII and subsequently hanged, cried they were directed by higher ups and were simply following orders. Ah, yes, they were 'just following orders' so they're innocent. Rabbis! Take your places among the Himmlers and Ghoerings! Have a seat and enjoy, your in good company. Consider your self a sadist (not a hasid) for sleeping well at night while victims know no peace from the day they were molested till the day they go to the grave!

Shlomo Freud said...

"Orthorev is the most unpopular and fringe figure on this page. Even those of us who are fed up with corrupt rabbis find him to be a raving lunatic and a big turn off."

He also has his own f%#@ing blog so let him stay over there instead of boring us with incoherent rambles.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Anyone with information on the background of Yisroel Reinman, kindly e-mail it to me.
Thanks,
UOJ

American oleh kills himself in W. Bank
Yaakov Katz, THE JERUSALEM POST Jun. 6, 2006




Military Police are investigating the apparent suicide of, Yisrael Reinman, an American immigrant soldier who was found dead Tuesday in a mosque in a Palestinian village near his West Bank base. The 28-year-old soldier grew up in a haredi family in New York.

Military police interrogated Reinman's commanding officer Wednesday about what transpired the night of the suicide.

The army also said it was reviewing the way it accepted solders into Nahal Haradi, but claimed there were good filters in place to determine if a soldier was not suitable for service in that unit.

Reinman immigrated to Israel two months ago and enlisted two weeks ago in the Nahal Haredi Battalion, an infantry unit that integrates combat service with ultra-Orthodox observance.

The soldier, the army said, left his basic training base late Monday night near Tubas in Samaria. Fearing he had been kidnapped by terrorists, Nahal Haredi commanders initiated a search. Soldiers approaching Khirbat Baka heard gunshots coming from a nearby mosque. The battalion commander entered the mosque and found the dead soldier.

Reinman, the army said, had emptied a rifle magazine and caused extensive damage to the mosque before apparently shooting himself in the head.

Military Police came to the village early Tuesday morning to investigate and to examine the possibility that he was killed by terrorists. According to Palestinian reports, the soldier left a suicide note in which he said he was committing suicide after regretting his decision to enlist in the IDF. The army did not confirm the reports.

Civil Administration officials also arrived at the village on Tuesday, to help repair windows in the mosque that had been shattered during the shooting.

Anonymous said...

uoj
what are you doing about toras moshe.
is the rapist still on the loose there?

Shocked to the core said...

I would just like to comment on John Q. Publicstein's post. At bottom, I think what he is getting at is that the Internet and sites such as this one have encouraged lay people to recognize that allowing rabbinical leadership to take charge of every aspect of our lives, that is, rule by rabbi, has resulted in the poisoning of what should be a vibrant and forward-looking faith. There is no question that the involvement of lay persons in leadership and decision making roles in the Orthodox community is long overdue.

This, however, comes with a huge caveat. What we have seen and continue to see happening in the Reform and Conservative movements is that the lay leadership has taken too much away from the rabbinic leadership. You need go no further than to know that there are ritual committees in Conservative synagogues in which lay people decide what are questions of halacha and, in effect, tell the rabbi what to do.

What I mean by this is just that we must be extremely careful to know where to draw the line with respect to the involvement of lay people in the administration of the organs of Jewish life. Ironically, what has become clear to me is that all communities have failed to come to grips with the proper level of lay involvement in rulemaking and decisionmaking; the frum community has ceded too much power to a rabbinate undeserving of its trust and the Reform and Conservative communities have emasculated its rabbinate by taking too much away from them.

I guess on the one hand what I'm getting at is that our religion is neither a democracy in which the membership votes on how to conduct itself nor an oligarchy in which an elite few tell us how to act and react to what we see around us and will brook no criticism because they purport to know what is halachically acceptable. There just has to be an appropriate manner in which to involve

That being said, I think it is fair to say that we can no longer trust rabbinic leadership when it comes to the health and welfare of the community. They have repeatedly fallen down on the job, have consistently resisted change, and have essentially demanded that business continue as usual.

I say ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! And, if this means creating an accrediting agency for yeshivot that is operated not by a professional rabbinate but by individuals laypeople whose only interest is in insuring that the students receive a good education without fear of abuse of any kind be it sexual, physical, or verbal, I for one am prepared to support such an institution.

Mental Illness Jew said...

Posted on Mon, Jun. 05, 2006

Shopping center designed for Israel's ultra-Orthodox Jews

By Dion Nissenbaum
Knight Ridder Newspapers


BNEI BRAK, Israel - Tucked inconspicuously on a busy street in the middle of one of Israel's poorest cities is a shopping mall like no other.


Men are barred from the top floor. There's no cafe for socializing. The department store's lingerie section is hidden behind curtains.


Welcome to Shopping Bnei Brak, a first-of-its-kind shopping center that caters to Israel's ultra-Orthodox community. Members' adherence to strict Jewish law is such that streets are blocked in their neighborhoods from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday so that no one violates Jewish law by driving on the Sabbath.


The mall is an experiment between influential rabbis and Israel's largest department store chain to see if strict Jewish religious rules can be balanced with capitalist consumerism.


"The store talks to the people in another language," said Israel Goldberg, an expert in marketing to Israel's ultra-Orthodox citizens who's working on the project with the Hamashbir department store chain. "It looks so weird - the concept - to America."


Everything - from the shape of perfume bottles to the types of stores in the mall - goes through a strict screening process. The rabbis insisted that the mall have no cafe or restaurant where men and women might mingle. They dismissed talk of a movie theater. They even insisted that the word "mall" not be part of the name because "a mall reminds them of something too modern," Goldberg said.


The Hamashbir store, which anchors the mall, features a line of modest clothing designed for the ultra-Orthodox and a women-only section reached by the sole escalator in this city of 160,000, northeast of Tel Aviv. White curtains conceal the entrance to the lingerie section, and strategically placed white stickers cover the alluring models on pantyhose packages.


There are no mannequins and most certainly no ads featuring scantily clad women. Because ultra-Orthodox women and men usually sleep in separate beds, the store sells mostly twin sheets and no large blankets.


There are no firm numbers on how large the ultra-Orthodox segment of the Israeli market is, but if the mall is successful, Hamashbir plans to open others. Estimates say the community accounts for 6 percent to 12 percent of Israel's 7 million residents.


The community's influence has waxed and waned over the years. Currently, the ultra-Orthodox Shas party is the third-largest member of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's coalition government.




The ultra-Orthodox can be controversial in Israel. Secular Israelis resent that ultra-Orthodox men often are exempt from military service because of their religious studies and that the government subsidizes large families, which tend to be ultra-Orthodox.


The mall hasn't been exempt from such criticism. Yair Sheleg, a religion reporter for Israel's Ha'aretz daily newspaper, blasted the mall for endorsing what he called "the norms of isolation" that keep the ultra-Orthodox from interacting with more secular Israelis.


"I think it's wrong, basically," Sheleg said. "It's wrong because there are, from my point of view, important values in secular society."




Even among some of the ultra Orthodox, the mall may have gone too far.


"Some ultra-Orthodox women don't like it," saleswoman Nellie Bar Oz, 21, said of the women-only section. "They want to consult with their husbands, so they go down and show them things and then come back up."


The store is considering setting special hours when men would be allowed upstairs or creating a space where husbands could wait and consult with their wives.


Still, for many, the mall is a welcome respite from shopping that previously was restricted to small stores with limited selection.


On a recent morning, Rivka Lev drove a half-hour from her Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank for a shopping excursion at the new mall with her mother and twin daughters.


"It's fun," Lev said. "If there were a mall like this in the West Bank, it would be great. Sometimes it's better to go shopping without the men - you feel more free."

boog said...

shocked;

you've said a mouthful.

kudos.

Anonymous said...

That being said, I think it is fair to say that we can no longer trust rabbinic leadership when it comes to the health and welfare of the community. They have repeatedly fallen down on the job, have consistently resisted change, and have essentially demanded that business continue as usual.

I say ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! And, if this means creating an accrediting agency for yeshivot that is operated not by a professional rabbinate but by individuals laypeople whose only interest is in insuring that the students receive a good education without fear of abuse of any kind be it sexual, physical, or verbal, I for one am prepared to support such an institution.
__________________________

BRAVO!

John Q. Publicstein said...

Shocked to the Core, I think what the Orthodox rabbinate must ultimately come to terms with is the reality that there are a plethora of very shocking and very uncomfortable issues facing the frum world, and these issues must be addressed.

We have frum men who have their bein odom lmakom down to the tee. They learn daf and never miss minyan. In between that devotion there are those that beat their wives, commit adultery, abuse drugs, and commit felonies, not to mention our fair share of abusers.

In my earlier post I wasn't trying to belittle the significance of issues like those that were raised in connection with human hair sheitels and micro-organisms in water. Those are real issues. What I object to is the isolation of those issues and the level of prominence that they received, at the expense of the more uncomfortable issues we have facing us.

In other words, there has to be a balance. Leaders can't pick and choose their issues. And if I can find 35 signatures at the bottom of a letter concerning bugs in the water, I need to see a letter with an equal number of signatures decrying spousal abuse. In terms of the Kolko case, we need to see open letters from every yeshiva telling every mechanech that their conduct must be sterling and that any abuse on any level will not be tolerated.

It is also crititcal to remember the ultimate integrity inherent in the Torah, and living life dictated by Torah-true values. The same rationale that allows abuse perverts these values into something they are not. Lashon Harah is wrong. Hiding behind lashon harah to conceal deviant behavior is perverse.

What it may boil down to is that Orthodoxy needs to catch up with the times. Obviously we are doing something wrong, because there is more learning, davening, and tefila perofrmed now on a daily basis than at any time in our history. Yet we remain in golus. It is becoming painfully obvious why, and moving in the direction of correcting the power imbalances that have allowed these abuses to perpetuate is movement in the right direction.

frumshrink said...

So nu...when are we starting this group of concerned lay people who will give a hechsher on yeshivas? Nefesh, the organization of frum mental health professionals have written guidelines for professional approaches to chinuch that deal with many issues such as abuse. Why not create our own guidelines in consultation with lawyers, psychologists, the people who made up the new standards for the O.U., law enforcement officials, victims, and maybe even some input from truly concerned rabbis (Blau, and then there's Blau, and I don't know of anymore). Once we have our guidelines we ask every yeshiva to sign on and agree to be monitored. Those that do get a hechsher and an ad in Yased Neeman extolling the wonderful Torahdik concern for children in this yeshiva as evaluated by our panel. Those who don't, get no bad pr, but they miss out on the good stuff. Then let parents decide and vote with their feet (their kids and their money). I hope that more and more parents are learning to at least consider the dangers of abuse risks for their kids.

Furthermore, there needs to be much more done to educate the community on the problem. Who will sponsor sociological and psychological research on the prevalence and the destructive impact of abuse in our community? Hire some writers/journalists to interview mental health professionals about cases and research, and even more importantly victims themselves to explain the hell they have to live with, and what it does to their feelings for the Jewish community. Maybe rabbis and all Jews, who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim, will wake up when they learn about the silent holocaust of our people. maybe they will be able to realize the new form of Amalek in our time.
Education, education, education. Awareness. The cure for the frum mental disorder is enlightenment.

sam said...

I was reinmans closest friend . i cant believe it ! i am crying now.

Anonymous said...

Blog in memory of Yossi Reinman Zal

www.myfriendyossi.blogspot.com

Steven Shpielberg said...

"Blau, and then there's Blau, and I don't know of anymore"

Don't forget that Rabbi Blau along with Rabbi Mordechai Willig from Riverdale came under prolonged attack by the mafia for daring to do something about Lanner's sex abuse of children and Tendler's sex abuse of women.

They were later joined by many others from the RCA who are still being smeared this very day by the sanctimonious Jewish Press.

Finally, there were 7 Litvishe & Chassidishe rabbonim who publicly denounced Tendler including Reb Mottel Orbach & Rav Wosner Jr. It was only after these Monsey rabbonim spoke up that most rabbbonim stopped defending Tendler and playing the part of Lipa Geldwerth proteges.

Richard Mellon Scaife said...

"There is no question that the involvement of lay persons in leadership and decision making roles in the Orthodox community is long overdue."

This has actually been the biggest problem at times. Unbeknownst to most outsiders there are many squabbles in the Agudah (probably other organizations too) where megalomaniac baal batim wrest control away from rabbonim and do whatever the heck they feel like.

Apart from that, you have freelance tushwipes like convicted criminal Leib Pinter who try to rally all the gedolim with questionable agendas and information like when he cultivated and harvested the Slifkin ban.

UOJ has to put our yeshivos and publishers on notice that any ties to Pinter will not be tolerated.

Jersey Joe said...

DEAR UOJ:

CONGRATS ON YOUR WEBSITE! YOU HAVE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OF DEFAMING ALL ORTHODOX JEWS! I SALUTE YOU FROM MY GRAVE!!

ABU MUSAB AL-ZARQAWI

Lakewood Yungerman said...

I hope that "frumshrink" is not the one from Lakewood who some rabbonim say is shielding a child molester. There was a widely publicized story of abuse at a playgroup in which the lives of the homeowner couple and their family were destroyed. There are two separate groups who maintain the administrators are not the real culprits. Avremel Ausband and the gvir Mr. Freeman from Riverdale is one group. Brooklyn rabbonim including Rav Feivel Cohen and Rav Plutchok are the other.

The Riverdale group took Rav Solomon and Schenky to a din Torah. The Lakewooders won the din Torah on a technicality that the administrators are responsible for their charges even if someone else was molesting them. I believe that is correct, but it is not enough to justify completely destroying their lives while the real culprit roams free thanks to a cover up by a frum shrink that the real culprit knows for many years.

Anonymous said...

We need a Yeshiva Parents' Association to address issues like abuse, tuition, secular studies, health. I wrote about this in a January 11, 2006 Jewish Press article, its still on their website.

Please check out today's Jewish Week, its online, and read an article about a bill in Albany that will allow yeshivas to fingerprint their employees and conduct FBI background checks. This is the type of thing we have to do, and can do in other areas.

People interested in forming such a group can contact me below.

Elliot B. Pasik, Esq.
efpasik@aol.com

Shloyma Mandel said...

Does anyone know what UOJ wants from me?

What is this? He thinks he can just take down any yeshiva on a whim?

I don't know that I'm so scared of him. No matter what happens, Yaakov Applegrad can still get me into a cozy Hungarian bungalow colony.

mental illness jew said...

Quote: "Their parents have good hearts, they love their kids, but they are brainwashed members of a cult:

Rattling the Cage: Community of collaborators

Larry Derfner, THE JERUSALEM POST Jun. 8, 2006


It's one thing when the haredim riot to keep a street closed on Shabbat, or to stop archeological digs, or to trash billboards showing girls in bikinis. But when they're rioting against the police for daring to look into the alleged deaths by child abuse of haredi babies - even when a haredi father has confessed to bashing and biting his three-month-old son to death - that's something else altogether.

When haredim in Jerusalem instantly turn the young so-called father Yisrael Valis into a hero and victim of a police "blood libel," and when haredim in Ashdod storm a cemetery and snatch the corpse of a one-year-old girl who allegedly died because her haredi parents didn't believe in inoculations or antibiotics, this is not "colorful." It's not a "cultural difference," either.

This, instead, is all the proof any reasonable person needs to see that there's something twisted in the psyche of haredi society. The problem is not just the Valis family in Jerusalem and the Sitner family in Ashdod, it's the haredi community at large that's gone to war for these two families against the "evil regime" that's pursuing them over the deaths of their little children.

Imagine if such deaths had occurred to babies living in normal, mainstream communities. The accused parents would obviously be seen as monsters, or at the very least strongly suspected of being monsters, by everyone. People's allegiance would go strictly to the memory of the babies.

But has anyone in the haredi community spoken up publicly for these two deceased infants, Refael Valis and Malka Sitner? In the haredi war against the "Nazi" police, these two young victims are irrelevant. The real victims, in the haredi view, are their parents.

Valis's grandparents' home in Mea She'arim, where he is under house arrest, has become a pilgrimage site; the place is reportedly filled with haredi yeshiva students coming to study and pray with him. The big-name haredi rabbis put in obligatory appearances. By now Valis has retracted his April confession - that he slammed his son against the wall because of the boy's birth defect and incessant crying - but even before he wised up and claimed the police coerced him into confessing, the people of Mea She'arim had made him their new martyr, their new cause celebre, and were setting streets on fire.

In Ashdod, whoever knows where Malka Sitner was buried isn't saying. Police asked a prominent local haredi rabbi, Shmuel David Gross, to make a halachic ruling that anyone with information about the body-snatchers or the burial site should tell them. Rabbi Gross, however, made a very different ruling - he warned his followers not to go to the police with information because this might make them "informers" in the biblically worst sense.
"Only the leading halachic authorities can decide on giving names to the police," the rabbi declared. (The baby girl died after a week of high fever, which her parents chose to treat homeopathically instead of with antibiotics as a physician had prescribed. They reportedly hadn't seen to her inoculations. The child's corpse was abducted last week from the purification room of the Ashdod cemetery as hundreds of haredim, enraged at having learned that a criminal court had ordered DNA tests to be performed on the baby's body, assaulted police.)

WHAT IS there to make of all this - that the haredim don't love their children as much as other parents love theirs? That they have so many kids, and have them at least in part out of religious obligation, that they don't really care that much about them as individuals?

A lot of secular, anti-haredi Israelis believe this; I definitely don't. As far as basic, instinctive parental love goes, I see no evidence that haredim have any less of it than the ordinary run of mothers and fathers. (Yisrael Valis, however, seems to be a different case entirely.)
But I also believe that the mothers and fathers at Jonestown loved their children, even as they gave them cyanide-laced Kool Aid to drink. The problem with the parents at Jonestown wasn't a lack of love for their children, the problem was that they belonged to a crazed cult, and had been brainwashed by a messianic leader and by group hysteria into thinking they were "saving" their children from an evil regime, the US, that in fact was coming to rescue them.

The problem at Jonestown wasn't in the parents' hearts, but in their minds. When a community mobilizes to murder its own children, that's the mind working, not the heart.

Just so it's clear, I am not equating the canonization of Yisrael Valis or the omerta being enforced in Ashdod with the mass murder/suicide in Jonestown. The haredim aren't lining up to kill their children - you obviously can't equate the two.

But you certainly can compare the two. While the haredim aren't a community of child-killers, they are a community of moral collaborators after the fact with the killing of two haredi children that, to a disinterested eye, seem at this point to have been caused, respectively, by the Sitners' fanaticism and Yisrael Valis's awful brutality. (Incidentally, these people are innocent until proven guilty only in the eyes of the judge; everyone else is fully entitled to form any opinion he wants.)

The haredim aren't guilty of evil on the scale of Jonestown, but they are guilty of evil. They've made heroes and martyrs out of parents who give any normal person the chills, and made villains out of the police trying to do justice in the name of the victims.

What sort of message about child abuse are the haredim sending to young haredi parents? What sort of message about child abuse are they sending to haredi children?

This is almost too appalling to think about. But Israeli society had better start thinking and doing something about it, for the sake of the helpless haredi children if nobody else. Their parents have good hearts, they love their kids, but they are brainwashed members of a cult - a very large, ancient Jewish community, but one led by absolute spiritual rulers, one that insists on utter conformity, that holds fanatical beliefs, and that views society at large and its instruments of power as demonic. In short, a cult. The haredim are rioting for the Sitner parents and Yisrael Valis. Shouldn't society at large be rioting for Malka Sitner and Refael Valis?

Rayshis Goyim Margolek said...

"the new form of Amalek in our time."

The Kisei Hakovod is not shalaym until YTT morphs or is closed.

Rishonim highlighted by the Chofetz Chaim and Rav Elchonon Wasserman speak of Amalekim who hide among the ranks of klal Yisroel.

Yisroel Shake A Legski said...

What am I supposed to do if I'm being fed false info by a proud shrink who makes it a point to tell everyone that he is the last of the Mohicans, er, Ich mein the "last musmach of Rav Schneyur Kotler" ?

Yackov Mandel said...

Hey UOJ perhaps I can assist you in taking my brother down. What a shi*head that pric* is!!

He kicked me out of MY yeshiva. The yeshiva that my father gave to ME. I had the Yeshiva K'tana....and he kicked me out and STOLE it!!

Mechel Gruss said...

Who knew all this here stuff was going in Lakewood. At least Reb Malkiel said the flasher story was "nisht stam a miyuse maayse" and booted out Yehudah Oratz on his tachas.

Anonymous said...

Regarding R' David Cohen...
I had a situation where I was being sexually harrassed by a family member of a man in R' Davids congreagtion. When I first approached R' David about this, he said he would help me. But as soon as the man I was calling to din torah started making some noise about only wanting to come to din torah on business issues with me and not the sexual harrassment issues, R' David became very nasty to ME!!!!
Now after reading Dachs commenting on this same R' David Cohen...things become curiouser and curiouser!!!

Anonymous said...

To Larry Derfner (article on JPost) as cited by the Mental Illness Jew:
I respect your opinion in fact the very same concerns you have concern me as well; HOWEVER (caps is just to emphasize), long before Amona (and the tremendous Chilul-Hashem of a civil war between brothers) the police (who the Chariedim call NAZI's) would beat up Chariedim at "Hafganot" every "Muntig and Donishtik" (read: every day) where was the outcry then. I do not believe that killing a kid is good but in terms of society it’s a two way street. Chariedim feel antagonized; as if the whole world is against them there has to be dialogue and the deionization of any Jewish Sect MUST STOP IMMEADIATLEY. I am by no means a Chariedi, I am a Jew by birth and I hate labels my beloved brothers throw around, (the rest of this article will only be understood by people from Brooklyn {a very small Jewish Community in NY} and therefore need only be read by Brooklynites) that being said I do not wear a hat on Shabbat nor do I use Yeshivisha Shprach to show the world how religious I am; but a Chareidi is just as Jewish as a Cheloni and we are all G-d’s Children.

By the way UOJ I love your blog and I beg you to keep the interest of G-d at heart (not that I am saying you have not until now) it takes a lot of courage to speak the truth and those that are amoral obviously want to silence the truth. Unfortunately the Jewish World today, in particular the Torah Observant, may need a little shock therapy.

Friend of Yosef Yisroel Reinman a"h remember him lovingly said...

I am still debating whether I should go to Brooklyn to be nachem avel his family. I feel bad for his siblings but not for his parents. His parents share a large portion of blame for what happened to him.

He once was a star pupil at his yeshiva (lakewood east) he also attended Bobov as a child and with his tall build excelled in sports. He had struggled with depression for a long time but he felt he had nowhere to turn to. We used to spend alot of time together when we first met at a small now defunct yeshiva in lakewood. we hit it off right away as friends because i understood where he came from. I too had had a troubled history with my family and community. I never fit in.

He comes from a very chashuva family. His uncle is the famed Rabbi Reinman from "One people two worlds" (a pompous arrogant man if you asked me).

If there was one thing Yossi needed the most it was love and acceptance by his parents and to a lesser extent his community. Not only didn't his parents give him that but they rejected him and treate dhim like a piece of garbage.

I can never forget how he called me last summer to tell me how his parents who were in the mountains called to tell him to get out of the house in brooklyn or they will call the utility company to turn the power off (which they ultimately did). And mind you this was after he had gotten divorced and had finally started emerging from his debilitating depression and previous suicide attempt.

I just got off the phone with some mutual friends and were discussing how the frum community hides the very serious and growing problem of depression and suicide under the rug. We discussed starting a non for profit organization to help frum boys who feel suicidal.

Shimon Friedman said...

Who is the money behind Yeshiva of Brooklyn?

Also, will you guys please stop bashing stuck up Hungarians?

Thanx

Margolek ben Timna said...

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=12557

Ven Eliott Pasik gets Albany to pass laws against sex offenders in yeshivas, vee vill be da first vones to attack the yingelach of Klal Yisruel who tink dey are finally free.

Bill Gates said...

Is there any news coming out of the closed door meetings at YTT?

Gross or anyone?

Or maybe Margo is getting smart and not letting the rebbeyim in.

Lawrence Friedman said...

Anyone notice how when all of a sudden the Agudath Israel has the heat on them, they are suddenly in favor of the sex offender registry?

Margolek shel Esav said...

I vonder if UOJ is going to have reporters nosing around to see if I let Yudi Kolko loaf around Silver Lake in an unofficial capacity.

Sil said...

I hope that gentiles are not reading this latest episode of our illustrious communith- but I'm afraid thay are privy to our underside. I have come to the conclusion that what these people are practicing in NOT Judaism. In Christianity you find Baptistes, Episcopalens, Lutherans, & now Judasism has it's own corrupt fundalmentist cults. Remember First Church of Gooey Death & Discount HOuse of Worship?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Shlomo Mandel,

I have NOT heard from you.

Consider this as notice of your "second" hazmana to the UOJ Bais Din!

Anonymous said...

Dovid Cohen is a despicable, horrible person and a walking Chillul Hashem. He has a long history of jumping to conclusions, as he apparently has done in the Kolko case, and then backing down when either his wife manages to calm him down from his infamous rage, or when he feels the heat from elsewhere. May his Maker judge him (soon) as harshly as he has judged others without bothering to find out the truth. I would say ditto for Hillel David, but he’s more a pathetic loser trying to get into a picture at the Torah Umesorah convention than anything else. Unfortunately, even losers can do harm.

QUEENS HATZOLAH said...

"Dovid Cohen is a despicable, horrible person and a walking Chillul Hashem. He has a long history of jumping to conclusions"

WHY WHY WHY WHY DO YOU SPEAK ABOUT SUCH A RASHA MERUSHA SO KINDLY?

Ask around pal and find out for yourself who this phony is. Take a look at his Shul. 400 seats, and approx. 100 davening there! What a total joke! AND it's THE ONLY Shul in the world that has NO seforim in the Shul. Take a look for yourself.
He has also taken the money to buld his shil from Mr. Pinky Green. [Remember him? Yeah, he's the guy that got "pardoned" by Bill Pervert Clinton. Him and Marc Rich. The two biggest thievs of the 20th century. Well Pinky Green donated the Shul. Actually if I recall correctly, he was in the middle of building the place when the FBI came knocking on his front door. He snuck out the back door and bribed his way out of the country and ran to Switzerland where he remains until today (even after being pardoned by Slick Willy!!).

Well this is David Cohen who is on Flatbush Hatzolah's payroll for YEARS. Go ask any Hatzolah member what a skank-artist this prick is!!
How about asking R' Zelig Epstein Shlita what a lying sack of shi* he is. If he tells R' Zelig that it's daylight outside, R' Zelig goes to check. Him and Moshe Wulliger, the notorious gangster/mob-boss of the dictatorship otherwise known as Flatbush Hatzolah have been embezeling money from the Communities pockets for YEARS.

UOJ: TAKE DAVID COHEN DOWN!!

boog said...

Agudah is now for establishement of a sex registry for Yeshivas??? Has there been a moral eclipse of the Moon?

Are you sure, my friend.

If so, then it's time to shlep Zwiebel over to either Ultimatum or Emporio for that new suit and tie so that he'll look real pretty for his Photo-Op and for when he testifies before the State Assembly and Shelly ("I don't go to Cop's Funerals") Silver.

Anonymous said...

David Cohen is not defending Kolko.

In fact, he has stated publicly that he considers Kolko to be a Roideph and that all measures must be taken to keep him away from children including going to the police as well as the filing of criminal charges and civil lawsuits.

While I may not agree with every position Rabbi David Cohen takes, I applaud his courage in stating the obvious to the public.

Anonymous said...

Pinky Green stole from no one.

His heinous crime was a foreign subsidiary of his American business trading with Iran after an embargo had been put in place by the US government.

It remains unheard of for the shareholder of a parent company, whose foreign subsidiary has engaged in trade which possibly violated an embargo that may have only applied to the parent entity, to be indicted and pursued.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, the US Attorney who relentlessly pursued Green, and refused to discuss any settlement that did not include jail time, should be run out of town.

Auto Report World Editors said...

UOJ,

Serious question. Why not just pick up the phone and call Mandel? Would that compromise your anonymity?

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Editor,

Good question, good reasons.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Green and Rich knew exactly what was going on. Giuliani and Spitzer have both pursued some questionable prosecutions, but that doesn't give these guys a pass for doing business with Jew haters like the ayatollahs of Iran. Boesky was a gonif, Milkin is a decent guy who got screwed for technical violations (he payed a huge fine, has kept his mouth shut, still gives a ton of $ to interesting Jewish causes, and is happy to be alive after getting cancer), and Mssrs. Green and Rich would sell their mothers and reneg on the deal.

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

Please share some of the reasons with us.

Thank you.

Un-Orthodox Jew said...

Let's just say that there's a lot of people that would pay a fortune to find out who I am.

I don't intend to help them.

Auto Report World Editors said...

So?

Was it ever thus?

Scandals and abuses. Corruption and conflict of interest. Schisms and even more schisms. That's the shul I won't go to if you paid me.

An argument can be said that all of the following developments in Jewish history had one thing in common: the rabbinical leadership being out of touch with either the masses of Jews or out of touch with reality. Shabtai Tzvi, when much of the leadership failed the community by embracing a madman. The Besht and Chassidism appealed to the masses of simple Jews who at best attended cheder and didn't sit for years in yeshiva - isolated from rabbis who argued fine points of halacha. Reform - it's easy to blame the Reform movement itself, but Orthodoxy hemorhaged not because of the appeal of Reform and later the Haskala, Orthodoxy didn't formulate a coherent response to the modern world until it was too late. To be sure, S.R. Hirsch's integration of the trational with the modern seems to have been exactly that coherent response that was needed. Unfortunately, the more narrow viewpoint of Pressburg's Chasam Sofer prevailed in much of Orthodoxy. The rabbis said to stay in Europe, not to emigrate to North America or Palestine as millions did exactly that. The millions who stayed behind were mostly killed. But at least the rabbis were in control.

another yid who hates dovid cohen the gangster said...

"Pinky Green stole from no one."

OK Fine. He's an erliche yid.

GET REAL DUDE! The guy was doing buisness with the Ayatollas of IRAN!
Hello?
Iran!

PEOPLE WAKE UP! These guys are sick people and that stuck up asshole who "calls himself" a rov should be put out of buisness.
Period.

flatbush hatzolah coordinaters steal money all day said...

call f-121 yehudah ecxstein if you want to know about duvid cone. he threw him out of hatzulah after opening his mouth about the coruption that goes on in 1880 ocean avenue with moshe willigar issac unger and the rest of the hit men.

anyone who questions david cohen gets a fist in his face.
baal gava....

old-time active hatzolah member of diff neighborhood said...

I like this kind of talk!

UOJ, this stuff is true. Flatbush Hatzoloh is most probably the most corrupt organization on the face of the planet!!

Issac Unger decides how much he should pay himself each week, cuts the check and signs it himself!

Moshe Wulliger sits in the office and STEALS the communities money and eats luch on YOUR cheshbon.

Zelig Gitilis has not had a job in YEARS. Makes you wonder how he's surviving......
Vehamayvin Yavin..

There is hundreds of thousands of dollars in CASH in that building with 3 UNTRUSTWORTHY people (if you can even call them that) playing monopoly all day.
Sounds like fun!

Sick.

Yosef Friedman said...

Actually it was the Jewish Week who claims to be told by the Agudah that they now support the sex offender registry. It makes sense to me if the Agudah lobbied some whore politicians to make sure the bill is useless. As it stands, that seems to be the case, with the proposed law being sterile and non-mandatory. There's no reason for the Agudah to oppose it and they score brownie points for public posturing over a mirage.

Henry Kissinger said...

Can't you guys read? You're arguing over something that was never said. Dovid Cohen is against Kolko. It's Margo that he decided to protect for some strange reason.

survivor said...

Limitations to Maryland's Sex Offenders Registry
http://www.mcasa.org/mcasa.htm


Be aware of the limitations of the Maryland Sex Offenders Registry. Only 2% of people who commit sex offenses are ever convicted and imprisoned. This means that the 98% of people who sexually offend, abuse or rape elude conviction, continue to live, work, and play in our communities. To avoid this significant truth is to create a false sense of safety and foster an atmosphere of denial.

In addition to the small number of convictions of people who commit these crimes, a vast proportion of sexual offenses go unnoticed because they are not recognized as such, and/or the person who was victimized is not able or decides not to report the crime to the legal system.

Sources:

• United States Senate Judiciary Committee. (1993). Conviction and Imprisonment Statistics

• Warshaw, R. (1988). I Never Called it Rape. Harper and Row Publishers. New York, NY

• Tjaden P. and Thoennes, N. (1998). "Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women: Findings From the National Violence Against Women Survey." In Research in Brief Series. U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services. Washington., D.C.

Anonymous said...

R' Zelig Epstein zol zein gezunt, has used Dovid Cohen as a tool in certain cases that I know of. Unless something changed, R' Zelig did not disparage Cohen to me many years ago. I have no proof, but I suppose it's possible that R' Zelig still doesn't think highly of Dovid Cohen but uses him to do dirty work when an intimidating "enforcer" is needed. I guess I still owe a degree of gratitude to Dovid Cohen for helping me once, but I was pretty surprised and disappointed how he spoke to me so disrespectfully.

And I was the guy whose side he was on.

lawyer in new york said...

Elliot Pasik is a bit naive if he thinks this bill is going to pass without it being emasculated by Sheldon Silver, if ever.
I agree with Friedman above, the Agudah likes the bill because it will never pass.
Elliot, it hurts me to think that you believe this bill will make any difference at all to what's going on in yeshivas.

Alfred E. Neuman said...

Is Yehuda Eckstein the guy who drives R' Shmuel Berenbaum everywhere?

I wonder if Dovid Cohen can just boot someone out of Hatzolah if R' Zelig Epstein puts his foot down. When Hatzolah has a major crisis they go to R' Zelig who is completely straight and no-nonsense. He is a rare breed these days.

Flatbush Rabbi said...

R' Epstein has Alzheimers, are you guys nuts. Can't you live without looking up at some guy for advice that should be sitting at the head table in Sharfs Manor?

boog said...

Agudah trolls for Sex Registry.

I knew it was too good to be true and had a catch.

Scratch taking Zwiebel to Emporio/Ultimatum.

Thomas Frieden said...

R' Zelig has had heart problems. Since when does he have Alzheimer's or something similar?

I last spoke to him a little over a year ago and he was still sharp as anything. I hope "Flatbush rabbi" isn't Orthorev who's trying to smear one of the only impeccable leaders we have.

Donald Rumsfeld said...

UOJ,

If the issues with Shlomo Mandel are so credible, why doesn't that guy screaming on the anti-YOB blog issue hazmonos himself or through Jeff Herman like the YTT victims did to Kolko and Margo?

Shouting at Mandel in cyberspace doesn't seem to be up to your standards.

Republican Jewish Coalition said...

"It makes sense to me if the Agudah lobbied some whore politicians to make sure the bill is useless."

Let's raise a fury and remind these whores that they are elected by the people. The general population and the victims have many more votes than Zweibel and the molester network.

Let's find candidates that will push for legislation that has teeth.

Anonymous said...

Hello, Lawyer in New York,

Yes it WILL make a difference. Just saving one life will make a difference.

Convicted sex offenders have been found to be working in Jewish, Catholic, and other private schools. Background checks will at least stop that.

There are eight session days remaining for the Legislature, before the close of session on June 22. We'll see what happens.

Do you want to get involved, counsel, and everybody else, or confine yourselves to cynical comments?

Please go to the websites of the New York State Assembly and Senate, and email the following key legislators, asking them to support the nonpublic school background check bill, S. 07381 in the Senate; and A. 11399 in the Assembly.

1. Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver;
2. Assembly Education Committee Chair Catherine Sullivan;
3. Assembly member Harvey Weisenberg (Assembly bill sponsor);
4. Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno;
5. Senate Deputy Majority Leader Dean Skelos (Senate bill sponsor);
6. Senate Education Committee Chair Steven Saland;
7. Your local State Assembly member and Senator.

Obviously, you can also telephone and write. You can mention the New York Jewish Week article. This is also a good way of expressing our community's hakaros hatov.

B'ezras Hashem, after the background check bill gets passed, we move on to other projects -like forming a Yeshiva Parents Association.

Counsel, you're invited to our first meeting.

Elliot B. Pasik, Esq.
Long Beach, New York
efpasik@aol.com

Tsedrayter said...

I was at a wedding and tried to
remove a white thread from Rabbi
Berenbaum's hat while he was wearing it. A black-hatted man came over to me
and warned me not to ever do that
again! HHUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH??
I wonder if it was Ekstein??

leiby puretz said...

"Is Yehuda Eckstein the guy who drives R' Shmuel Berenbaum everywhere?"

Yes thats him. Why?

slonim said...

R'Zelig Epstein is still sharp as a razor.He is a very decent person, please learn some basic respect

exposemolesters said...

An open letter to Shlomo Mandel,

I'm sure you have done a lot of righteous deeds through your lifetime. I can see how it would break your heart to sack your very good buddy, nussbaum, especially considering the circumstances of the termination. However, weigh the facts as they are. Would you want to be held responsible by the Melech Malchai Hamlochim, for allowing a rebbe to continually abuse boys (Sexually and Physically)? Up in heaven there will be hundreds of angels ready to either defend you or attack you in front of Hashem. If Chas Vashelom, you do not do the proper thing by getting rid of a sick individual who needs to fill his desires on the expense of young lives, how many bad Malochim do you think you will create because of it??? On the flip side, look how many good angels you can create. You can still act on your duty of keeping Klal Yisroel safe, but time is running out. I believe you are a rationale G-D fearing jew and that you will want to keep our children SAFE from harm.

Consider this as your personal hazmana letter. My intention is NOT to bring down YOB or any other Yeshiva that employs a molester (but i will do so if i have to). My agenda and goal is to eliminate and fix the main source of the problem that is KILLING our kids today, and that is "Rabbi's" that prey on our own Children. Your Yeshiva and Torah Temima, are examples of a problem, and epidemic, that unfourtanetley, strikes many people of all various faiths and religions (Yes, even Jews). To simply deny the problem exists and doing nothing about it, goes against morality, and Judasim as a whole. I remember you davening with a lot of Kavonoa by Shmonei Esrei and by Krias Shema. You read out loud in Tehilim many times with intensity, so you obviously are devoted to Hashem that you feel the need to praise him so. That being said, Please think of Hashem crying with tears rolling down his face. You know why he's crying? He's crying out; who is protecting MY CHILDREN from HARM??? He cries out; who is going to stop this endless cycle of abuse to my children??? Hashem cries out, especially because he knows that if no one will protect his own children, then he will have no choice but to act upon it himself. That is what a father does, comes to the aid of his own children. Chilul Hashem is a terrible thing, but even Hashem allows his name to be desecrated if it is a matter of life and death.

Certainly Hashem views the task of saving his own children as a matter of life and death, and the exception to the rule!

Anonymous said...

UOJ,

If the issues with Shlomo Mandel are so credible, why doesn't that guy screaming on the anti-YOB blog issue hazmonos himself or through Jeff Herman like the YTT victims did to Kolko and Margo?

Shouting at Mandel in cyberspace doesn't seem to be up to your standards.
___________________________

It's called NOTICE.

The day's of hazmanas are over.

If Mandel doesn't respond immediately and address the situation he's going to find himself in the legal system and the media very soon.

No more months of advance warning.

Mandel, if you believe you have a defense now is the time to mount it. If you know you have a real problem, now is the time to address it.

Now means TODAY. Tomorrow may be too late.

DD said...

When is Halacha Berurah going to come out with an issue on Molestation?

Anonymous said...

R' Epstein has Alzheimers,


G-D forbid!!!


Listen you mamzer,go back to your hole in Sasragen or Scheinerman's shul,and get your facts straight

Steve Ballmer said...

"Be aware of the limitations of the Maryland Sex Offenders Registry. Only 2% of people who commit sex offenses are ever convicted and imprisoned. This means that the 98% of people who sexually offend, abuse or rape elude conviction, continue to live, work, and play"

Especially when rabbis with selfish agendas cover up abuse.

UOJ Lover said...

UOJ,
You are so powerful and strong. I'm jealous of you. How many times were you molested?

boog said...

Candidates with teeth?

Ain't happening.

OrthoRev said...

Interesting thought on the 'pieces of crazy' whose sole purpose and singular focus in life is to respect their 'rabanim' the whole day while avoiding Loshon Hara...

Quote from a previous post "stop talking lashon hara and speak to R. Breuer from Agudah of Avenue L"

Now...once again to expose the sheer craziness....

In case you forgot-- this is how the great chasuv R' Bruer became rav of Agudah Avenue L..

Let me remind you…...

Rabbi Isbee was nifatr.. then the smelly fat huge 'bal habtim' (i.e. Issac Gross pre gastro-bypass surgery) sat around all day every day for an entire year year speaking loshon hara, motzei shem rah and more lason hara , about every rabbi to ‘determine’ who should be the next rav...

Then the held in shul 'try-outs' (i.e. shul entertainment) for several different 'rabbis' who gave guest lectures etc.

Then.. the ENTIRE SHUL sat around speaking loshan hara and extreme nivul peh about each rabbi…...

Next… they held a board meeting- at which the fattest guys with the most money and who could speak the most eloquent loshon hara, decided, for strategic political reasons, that Breur should be rav...

They could have easily picked 4 other people if the political landscape was different..


So this rabbi you so endear.. and who you revolve your life around and who in the face of a child being actively MURDERED (being ANALY RAPED!!) would not make a move without his guidance….... this man is only a ‘rabbi’, and only known to you, because the biggest loshon hara mouthpiece— had the most money (at that time)and spoke the most and best loshon hara about the others rabbis...

If the vote went the other way-- you wouldn’t even know who he is or care if he existed...

BUT NOW- you would not save a child without consulting him first because of loshon hara…

His whole existence is founded on loshon hara.. he wouldn’t exist without loshon hara…He is controlled by rich, fat, loshon hara mongers.

Yet, you run your life around him and by proxy to the fat rich loshon hara mongers who 'elected him'.

Frum is MOST DEFINITELY a Mental Disorder.

As the flaming has been pretty week—- please step up the effort.

I remain, OrthoRev.

Anonymous said...

UOJ, no need to post this, but I wanted to let you know of the hatzolas nefoshos the blog has performed. You will recall the anonymous post from the boy overseas protecting his younger brother from being abused by his father by continuing to endure the assaults himself. I am the poster who posted the bishvili email address. The boy did contact me.

Since that post, both boys are now in foster care, and the victim has started counseling. I am not comfortable posting, but think you should know. Nor can I take even some of the credit as it was the boy's strength that got him through.

I have posted under a dozen names here, many times just for fun. I even once posted my own troubles here and how I was taken by another Jew. But never did I imagine being able to be involved in something like this.

Anonymous said...

UOJ, no need to post this, but I wanted to let you know of the hatzolas nefoshos the blog has performed. You will recall the anonymous post from the boy overseas protecting his younger brother from being abused by his father by continuing to endure the assaults himself. I am the poster who posted the bishvili email address. The boy did contact me.

Since that post, both boys are now in foster care, and the victim has started counseling. I am not comfortable posting, but think you should know. Nor can I take even some of the credit as it was the boy's strength that got him through.

I have posted under a dozen names here, many times just for fun. I even once posted my own troubles here and how I was taken by another Jew. But never did I imagine being able to be involved in something like this.

Auto Report World Editors said...

I spoke to a friend of mine who is a principal of Yeshivat Akiva, a MO, co-ed, K-12 school in suburban Detroit about the problem of teachers who molest. He told me that the school is accredited (most likely by the North Central Association which does that here in the midwest) and that one of the criteria for accreditation is having a program in place to prevent this including background checks and participation in a registry. So there are Jewish schools doing this right.

UOJ, your proposal for a concurrent effort to get the good guys in the yeshiva system to get things right shows, to me, that you are not just a hothead like myself and that you understand that we have to simultaneously deal with emergency situations like Kolko and Ger and institute systemic changes. I'm as cynical as they come but there are some good men and women working in Jewish education, some in positions of authority. There are also schools that, unlike YTT and other NYC yeshivas, are transparently administered with oversight by a BOD or BOT that has real power and reports, ultimately, to the parents. I willing to concede that there even may be a few benevolent despots who have Margo's level of control over a yeshiva but because they are good men they don't abuse that power. These are potential allies in making the system work - if it can be made to work.

Unfortunately, one problem is that anything proposed by UOJ and others like him will immediately be suspect in the chareidi world. If the move towards a registry came from within the yeshiva world, from mechanchim that are respected by both thinking, observant Jews and by frummies alike, it might stand a better chance at succeeding in the frum world.

All of us that support what UOJ is doing know some yashar yashar Jews that we respect who also are in positions of influence in the frum community. Perhaps we should start doing some personal lobbying and try to get the good guys in the system involved.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Anonymous, I'm waiting for a frummie to tell you that the good getting those boys into foster care and counseling is more than outweighed by the supposed lashon hara and nivul peh that is uttered here.

Frummies don't even notice the trees, let alone the forest.

Anonymous said...

OUJ,
You should have a hit meter for your blog. Would be interesting to see how many hits you recieve daily.
SN

Anonymous said...

Dear UOJ,

I applaud your courage and dedication to disseminating truth. I, like you, am a musmach of a well known yeshiva (I believe that it may even be the same one). After 2 years in Kollel (not supported by parents/in-laws) I entered the work force both teaching and otherwise.
I'm certain that my Rabbeim would discount (and condemn) much of what you write as Kfira, sour grapes or just plain lunacy. As an insider I know better. This is not to discredit, chas vshalom, those people who truly live by Torah guidelines (Torah al pi Chazal, not modern day gurus). However we in the Frum/Orthodox community must wake up and purge the drek from within.
I have personally witnessed what a dynasty within a yeshiva can do. Nepotism in any form creates a foundation for disaster. There is a yeshiva in my community where several of the rebbeim, fundraisers and others were related. Although this family had not started the yeshiva they did quickly usurp the control. Although some of the members are inept at best they continue on in their conquest of the Mossad. How many qualified rebbeim were overlooked just to give one of their clan a position? Ultimately the precious talmidim suffer from mediocrity.
And seminaries? I have a daughter approaching that age. Blackmail and piracy are more apropos names than Chinuch Habanos. Yet my daughter fears what she will be labeled if she chooses to fore go "Heligeh" seminary.
Keep up the good work! BHatzlocha

Anonymous said...

with so many people ending up in court, i guess this was inevitable!
>
> http://www.vidocity.com/player.asp?ID=147

the awareness ctr. said...

3 Beliefnet Rabbis on blogs and allegations about rabbinic sexual impropriety
Rabbi Susan Grossman, Rabbi Joshua Waxman and Rabbi Eliyahu Stern
Wednesday, June 07, 2006
http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/virtualtalmud/

A Net Gain
In the past few years, an increasing number of allegations about rabbinic sexual impropriety have come to light, beginning with charges against Rabbi Baruch Lanner and more recently against Rabbi Mordechai Gafni of Bayit Chadash in Israel and Rabbi Yehuda Kolko of a boys' yeshiva in New York City.

The most recent allegations have tended to crop up first on the Internet, either on blogs such as Un-Orthodox Jew or Jewish Whistleblower, or web sites like The Awareness Center. This makes sense since it's much easier to get your message out on the Internet than through more traditional media. But it also raises the specter of unfounded allegations being put out as fact, without any of the usual checks by impartial third parties that would happen before, say, an article would be published in a newspaper.

The ease of disseminating allegations online raises serious questions about lashon ha-ra, harmful or slanderous speech. Once an allegation “however unfounded“ is out in the world, the reputation of the rabbi in question is almost irretrievably ruined.

Even if the allegation is later proven to be false, very few congregations or organizations want to hire a person whose name has been publicly linked with sexual abuse. Moreover, a spate of unfounded accusations makes it that much harder for people with legitimate complaints to be taken seriously. Indeed, serious charges have been leveled against the Awareness Center and its director, Vicki Polin, for its failure to institute reliable checks or to remove discredited information.

These are very serious concerns, but so too, of course, are unchecked acts of abuse by rabbis, particularly those involving minors.

I tend to agree with Rabbi Michael Dratch of JSafe, who recently wrote that too often legitimate concerns and allegations have gone unheeded, with organizational leaders closing ranks to support abusers and marginalize the victims. It is exactly this lack of responsiveness to legitimate allegations through official channels that drives people to post their allegations on the Internet, because they have nowhere else to go.

In too many cases, the Jewish community has proven willing to ignore or to silence accusers in order to protect its own image, as we have seen time and again with the Catholic Church. This lack of accountability is unconscionable: not only does it re-victimize those who have been abused; it also allows sexual predators to abuse again.

Given the seriousness of the crimes and the lack of other outlets for airing allegations, I believe Internet postings, even with the dangers they entail, are the clear lesser of two evils. Readers should take what they find online with a grain of salt and allow those accused the opportunity to defend themselves. And we all should work toward making our communities more open and transparent, to restore confidence that serious charges can be aired and will be addressed sensitively and appropriately.
posted by Rabbi Joshua Waxman @ 8:09 PMÂ | Comments (3)Â Â

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saving the Sacred From Itself
Recently, there has been a spate of sexual abuse cases surfacing within the Orthodox community. These cases have come to the fore primarily through the constant pressure of blogs. Blogs are an important check for religious democracy. Traditional communities by their nature can be incredibly insular, preventing the type of healthy critique that keeps all structures of power honest and modest.

Before I go on I just want to say this is a very complicated issue and in the near future I hope to write more on the complexity of this matter.

Back when I was a student at Yeshiva University, Gary Rosenblatt, the editor of the Jewish Week, reported on Rabbi Baruch Lanner, a longtime establishment rabbinic figure in the Modern Orthodox world. For years, Lanner had been abusing children in camps and schools. Most suprising, however, wasn't Lanner but the crony system that allowed and tolerated his behavior. Those such as YU Rosh Yeshiva Rabbi Mordechai Willig defended him, and Willig was appointed head of an official Jewish court that was responsible for looking into the matter.

As the head of the court Willig, mocked and reprimanded those who questioned his judgment on the matter or brought charges against his buddy. What was so disturbing was not that Willig made an honest mistake and was trying to defend his friend, but that long after the proof was on the table and obvious to all, he continued to defame the media and those who challenged his rulings.

A few months after the story broke, I wrote an article in the YU student newspaper, the Commentator, applauding the work of Rosenblatt and others who had the guts to finally break the story. Most important, I argued that the Lanner case teaches us that the secular media can have the spiritual potential to save the sacred from itself.

When my article appeared, I was lambasted and denounced by those such as Willig. Willig threatened to get funding cut for the student newspaper. Ultimately, the editor of the student newspaper sheepishly ran for cover, distancing himself from my article. The editor was so scared that he could not even muster the courage to critique or challenge Willig or Lanner. That year my piece was the only piece the Commentator wrote on the issue.

It was as if there was no outlet to let people know what was happening. There was a tautology of evil with no way to question anything that as taking place. For more than a year the rabbis and Rosh Yeshiva continued to defend Lanner and mock Rosenblatt as a heretic and hater of Torah values. They claimed the criminal investigation was a conspiracy against Orthodox Jews. The whole situation was so sick and disturbing, yet all we could do was wait until Rosenblatt got around to looking into the matter further. Finally, after mounting public pressure and Rosenblatt's courageous op-eds, Willig was forced to get up in front of a packed beit midrash (house of study) and beg forgiveness for his actions.

As a student, what was most frustrating for me was that I felt as though I was living in the twighlight zone, with no way in or out. Not only was there no way of letting the community know what was really going on, but even within the walls of the university, students were too scared to say a word. There is little doubt in my mind that had students been blogging in those days, the situation would have been radically different.

It was only after the Lanner affair that those such as Steven I. Weiss started blogging on the politics and day to-day happenings in Jewish life. Recently, others in Brooklyn and other Orthodox enclaves have followed his lead, creating a new power dynamic within the community.

To be sure, blogs are not a panacea, and sometimes, like all good societal medicines, they can have dangerous side-effects. Lies, rumors, and fiction are rampant on blogs, and real people's lives can be destroyed because of the lack of standards endemic to the medium.

While bloggers like Weiss make a mistake or two here and there and are often too quick to condemn or praise, they are essential for creating a culture of critique. To be continued..
posted by Rabbi Eliyahu Stern @ 7:12 PMÂ | Comment (1)Â Â

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sex, Lies, and the Internet
Should the Internet be used to publicize the names and alleged improprieties of alleged sexual predators? Is such use justified to protect victims and potential victims from sexual predators even if it runs roughshod over the requirement to protect innocent individuals from potentially false charges that can ruin their reputations and their careers?

According to Jewish tradition, a sexual predator is a rodef, a pursuer intending to harm another. As Jews we are obligated to not stand idly by, but to intervene to protect the victim. While we are not free to ignore the threat, nevertheless we are to use the minimum degree of force necessary to neutralize the threat posed by a perpetrator.

That is why I am uncomfortable with posting charges of sexual misconduct on Internet sites.

Jewish tradition teaches us that we are to protect the reputation of others: we are not to spread unconfirmed rumors (lashon hara, literally meaning evil talk), nor are we even to spread a bad name about others (motzi shem ra), even if true, to anyone who does not have a direct need to know for his or her own protection. In these ways, Judaism seeks to protect someone's reputation and ability to support oneself.

The biblical story of Joseph (who winds up in jail for having spurned the advances of his boss' wife) (Gen. 39:7-20) reminds us that mentally fragile or vindictive individuals can use a charge of sexual misconduct to get back at someone who is otherwise innocent. And sometimes one person's kind act (for example, giving a congregant a hug in public) is inappropriately labeled by another as an act of sexual impropriety.

While I don't agree with the use of the Internet to publicize unproven charges of sexual misconduct, I certainly understand why such postings happen: All too often victims find no support or redress in the organized Jewish world.

That is why it is our responsibility on every level of our community to establish protocols and procedures for dealing expeditiously and confidentially with charges of sexual misconduct, whether about rabbis, teachers, or other professionals and leaders, and in a way that is sensitive and fair to both parties.

In my synagogue we have a Personnel Committee staffed by volunteers with Equal Opportunity and human resource experience who regularly run training programs for all of our teachers and staff about sexual harassment and misconduct. Each of the major rabbinical organizations should have a similar procedure that ensures a fair hearing not just to the rabbi in question, but to the self-identified victim as well. I would also suggest that some of the national initiatives to train rabbis on issues of domestic violence could also include training in sexual harassment and impropriety so this growing number of concerned rabbis will know how to respond appropriately if someone comes to them for help.

Perhaps such steps, once in place, would vitiate the need for blogs that ultimately do more for the spread of lashon hara than the effective protection of potential victims of sexual misconduct.
posted by Rabbi Susan Grossman @ 6:53 PMÂ | Comments (3)

Concerned Jew said...

Anonymous said...
To the anonymous poster who claims to have been seduced / molested in RJJ by the janitor, "victor":
There was at no point in the history of RJJ any custodial workewr by the name of 'Victor,' and blaming your lifestyle pervision on any Yeshiva available is not excusable. Although the acts commited by Kolko and YTT, if true, are abominable, there is no reason to lash out at every religious institution without fact or reason. Readers, please disregard this Moron's post, as he is obviously full of more than just anger. Rabbi Soloff ZTL was a wonderful man who radiated kindness. Back off and dont disrespect his memory with your crap.
_________________________
Marvin:

Whether or not this accusation is accurate, your silence in the Kolko affair is deafening and speaks volumes.

Why are you not screaming about this ongoing travesty? How many yeshivas must UOJ attack before you speak up and help bring about change?

Marvin Shick Watcher said...

Marvin is pissed at UOJ for grabbing the spotlight and trumping Marvin on the most important issue facing Orthodox Judaism and the entire yeshiva movement.
Marvin, I'm certain UOJ would turn this over to you, get involved Marvin, stop pissing in the wind on tuition issues, you're getting nowhere.
Save kinderlach Marvin, although this may beneath you, getting involved with the scum of Judaism, the scum rabbis, the scum enablers and the sickness that has infested the Orthodox Jewish world.
What would R' Aaron say Marvin????
HOW ABOUT FULL PAGE ADS ON THIS JUDAISM THREATENING ISSUE MARVIN?

Shoshana said...

UOJ
I would like to help you start the registry. It is important that you remain anonymous. Please post



To all Jews. We are now putting together a registry to prevent all abuse in the Orthodox School System. We are seeking 12 people from the following professions.

1. Psychologist
2. Medical Doctor
3. Registered Nurse
4. Recovering incest or molestation survivor that is part of a 12 step program
5. Recovering Rabbi of incest or molestation that is part of a 12 step program
6. Recovering Pedophile preferably a Rabbi that is part of a 12 step program
7. Attorney (specializes in abuse and or family matters)
8. 18 year old Yeshiva Student
9. Head of a Jewish school that already has a registry in place
10. A Mother
11. A Father
12. A recovering victim of molestation

If you are interested in being considered to be a part of the Orthodox Registry for prevention of Abuse to Children in Yeshivas in America

Please email me with your information and a brief letter stating your qualifications and why you think you are appropriate for this position.

Thank you,

Shoshana Reisman
orthodoxregistry@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

I don't know R. Kolko, Never met him. But, without a doubt in my mind believe the accusations against him. People with the attitude of "How is it possible? There are thousands of fine boys who have come out of TT without any such accusations" are just plain Ignorant, Naive, Blinded, Sticking their head in the sand, IDIOTS!
Nobody ever implied that Kolko molested EVERY boy in his care. Molesters choose their victims carefully in order to avoid getting outed & caught. They prey on kids who are least likely to tell anyone of the abuse, and who are most likely to believe threats of reprisals from their abuser.

I remember when I was in 5th grade in a different yeshiva in Brooklyn, a boy transferred to our class mid-year from YTT. This kid had some SERIOUS issues. I remember how during recess, or if the Rebbe stepped out for a few minutes, he would crawl under other boy's desks & just grab at their crotch without any warning or provocation. I firmly believe that this boy most likely was a Kolko victim.

As for the people who say "I find it hard to believe someone who after 35 years woke up one day at age 48 and suddenly grew the guts" or " the cases are VERY old and more than likely untrue..."

WAKE UP, COME OUT FROM YOUR CAVE, & GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!!!, I've got news for you. There was another name mentioned in the NY mag article about a Menuval named Mondrowitz that I PERSONALLY was an abuse victim of. I was shocked to see his name there as I had NEVER told anyone of his abuse. I had no idea that there were others besides me. I had no idea about the indictments handed down in '84 or, his flight from justice. I had put it behind me & moved on with my life. Kids generally block this stuff out. 22 years later, & now I am forced to deal with this all over again in my own way. The passage of time does not in any way make the accusations less likely to be true or, more of a reason to believe that the accused is innocent.

It is my sincere hope that by focusing the spotlight on this extremely important issue, and not covering everything up, SERIOUS changes will take place in our very broken & very corrupt yeshiva system. We need to put REAL systems in place that ensure that our kids are NEVER subjected to such abuse.

boog said...

Marvin Schick;

Get your head out of your arse and instead of writing turgid prose articles on tuition reform for The Ragged Press, that no one understands or gives a s--t about, help UOJ, Elliot Pasik, J. Herman, et. al.; get some serious reform on sex abuse in our yeshivas and camps.

lawyer in new york said...

Look Elliot Pasik,

You're a well meaning guy, and I did not intend a personal attack. Are you aware that Yitzchok Fisher the mohel is still performing circumcisions in New York? Do you think he feels bound by his agreement with the Goyishe health dept?
Same goes for the yeshivas; do you think they are going to abide by any law passed by the state legislature? Come on Pasik, you're smarter than that.
I don't belittle you for trying; get real buddy, the ONLY effect you can have is to wrest control of every single issue that affects the mental and physical health of the kids away from the beards.
Set up a monitoring system without the beards involved. Anything less is expending your time for naught.

Anonymous said...

Counsel,

Sounds like we share some similar ideas. Why don't you email me and I'll put you on my list of people interested in forming a Yeshiva Parents Association. I'm sure we all have good ideas we'd like to exchange with each other, and pursue. We need to move forward.


Elliot B. Pasik, Esq.
Long Beach, New York
efpasik@aol.com

Anonymous said...

I am a bochur in Toras Moshe and know for a fact the storis passed around about a certain individual are false.

This individual commands respects. In all honesty I never would have survived first year witout his tremendous support, insight, and Torah knowledge. Never once did he act inappropriatley that would even suggest one iota of the stupidity being spread about him.

The stories going aroung about him are fictious and started by a few "Rashas" that were thrown out of the Yeshiva for good reason.

Don't come to Toras Moshe to hang out in Center One. Don't come to Toras Moshe to eat meals in Arzai. Don't come to Toras Moshe to play in the Football League. Don't come to Toras Moshe to hang out with girls. Don't come to Toras Moshe to drink in town. Don't come to Toras Moshe to go to Eilat. Don't come to Toras Moshe to read novels. Don't come to Toras Moshe intrested in the Mets. Don't come to Toras Moshe to rent cars. Don't come to Toras Moshe to smoke. Son't come to Toras Moshe to miss davening.

WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE

WERE HERE TO LEARN AND SERVE GOD PERIOD.

Anonymous said...

Don't come to Toras Moshe if you want to learn how to spell.

boog said...

Add:

Don't come to Toras Moshe if you want to learn.

Don't come to Toras Moshe if you want to live.

Hey Toras Moshe shmuck: Where didya get all of these guidelines; The Taliban Handbook to Moral Living?

OrthoRev said...

Congrats Anon- your post will be Exhibit E as proof that "Frum Is A Mental Disorder"

If you are correct then Toras Moshe doesn’t believe in Bechira (and Judaism in general)- since there can't even be a concept of becheira- if you are perfect and don't do anything wrong ever (unless you are frum- in which case you are perfect because you are ill NOT because you have any connection to God).

Just to be clear, if i am teenager who wants very much to learn but sometimes reads a novel (i.e. I 'failed' my n'sayon) Toras Moshe doesn’t want me?!!?!

[FYI- most teenagers nowadays may read all the novels they want as it is way above their bechira level, and as such, there is no issue- see general Judaism concept of 'BECHIERA'- which toras moshe is against.]


YOU ARE ILL!

As described, Toras Moshe is a Bal Pe'or institute and to properly worship we should all line up and take a dump in front of the building.

OrthoRev.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I am a bochur in Toras Moshe and know for a fact the storis passed around about a certain individual are false.

This individual commands respects. In all honesty I never would have survived first year witout his tremendous support, insight, and Torah knowledge. Never once did he act inappropriatley that would even suggest one iota of the stupidity being spread about him.

The stories going aroung about him are fictious and started by a few "Rashas" that were thrown out of the Yeshiva for good reason.

Don't come to Toras Moshe to hang out in Center One. Don't come to Toras Moshe to eat meals in Arzai. Don't come to Toras Moshe to play in the Football League. Don't come to Toras Moshe to hang out with girls. Don't come to Toras Moshe to drink in town. Don't come to Toras Moshe to go to Eilat. Don't come to Toras Moshe to read novels. Don't come to Toras Moshe intrested in the Mets. Don't come to Toras Moshe to rent cars. Don't come to Toras Moshe to smoke. Son't come to Toras Moshe to miss davening.

WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE

WERE HERE TO LEARN AND SERVE GOD PERIOD.
=================================
And YOU dont you dare return to TOras moshe if you are a blogger on the traifeneh internet
What a hypocrite you are !!!

Mirrer Rocks said...

I can't comment on the learning part, Toras Moshe bochur, but when it comes to learning English either you've been absent the entire year or the teacher abuses the language the way Kolko tears into a hairless prepubescent child.

boog said...

What has Orthodox Judaism wrought?

Anonymous said...

Don't come to Toras Moshe if you want to learn good middos. The Rosh Yeshivah doesn't have any.

emeslyaakov said...

Not all accusations of sexual molestation are true. 15 years ago, a teacher in an orhtodox school was tried for sexual molestation. It was prooved in court that the mother had rented xrated movies to teach her kids how to complain and testify. In a more recent case, through the schools computer system it was proved that the accused teacher was elsewhere at the time of the alleged incident. Both of these teachers were found innocent, and were in fact innocent. Both of their lives were ruined.

On the other hand, many accusations are correct. All accusations need to be investigated within our gates. We need to establish an addresss for this complaints, an impartial beit din with the tools needed for proper investigation and resolution.

Loshon Hara is permissible for to'eles. Saving kids from abuse is a sufficient to'eles to allow the loshon hara.

It is proper to force Jewish educational institutions either to protect the kids or to close down.

There are problems.

None of this, however, is a reason to reject the Torah or the halacha or those who learn and practice the Torah sincerely and keep even its minutiae.

Instead, get rid of the rebbe worship. Get rid of the corruption. Get rid of the corrupters.

Do not extrapolate from these problems to other issues.

Just because there are sexual abusers does not mean that it is mutar to drink water full of copapods. Just because there are sexual abusers does not mean that you can carry in the Flatbush eruv. Just because there are sexual abusers does not mean that you can eat chabad shechita or drink chalav akum.

Each issue and each problem must be addressed on its own merits, based on the facts and the primary sources in the gemorra and rishonim, not based on the personalities or false loyalties.

As for Rav David Cohen, I heard him give a public shiur on the issue of mesirah, probably 15 years ago. He had poskened that a certain rebbe could and should be turned into police because he was molesting boys (with something less than intercourse) but he did not agree that Torah Umesorah should send out his name to keep him from ever getting hired again becuase that would have a bad effect on shidduchim for his children. I think that a prospective shidduch has a right to know that the parent of the proposed shidduch is a child molestor, because the child molestor will have access to his own grandchildren and may molest them.

Anonymous said...

Just because there are sexual abusers does not mean that you can carry in the Flatbush eruv. Just because there are sexual abusers does not mean that you can eat chabad shechita or drink chalav akum.
If its an eruv you can carry in it. If it's not an eruv don't call it an eruv. Also From what I hear from Rabbi CL Rottenberg in Monsey, Chabad sschita is one of the better ones.

boog said...

copods are rich in protein. I love it.

Auto Report World Editors said...

Nobody is saying that it's okay to eat bugs (though w/ the Brooklyn copapod issue the idea of "visible with the naked eye" has been taken into ain l'davar sof territory). We aren't extrapolating because the issues are related. The molestor issue is one of a cluster of pathologies within organized Orthodoxy. One of those pathologies is focusing on true minutiae, almost all of which are chumra related, while serious, destructive aveirahs get covered up.

True Judaism said...

What has Orthodox Judaism wrought?
__________________
What we are seeing here is not the product of Orthodox Judaism.

Rather, it is a bastardized distortion of our holy traditions that has infiltrated out midst through the hands of a modern day Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler team.

The modern day team of these monsters is Margulies, who learned his trade in the Nazi Concentration Camps, Applegrad, Weisner, Simcha Kaufman all ably assisted by Shia Fishman of Torah U’Mesorah and Pinchus Scheinberg.

Are you offended by these harsh comparisons?

Don’t be. Be offended by the obscene actions of these horrible human beings who have caused the destruction of so many pure souls.

And for the sake of our holy and sacred religion, fight back!

Auto Report World Editors said...

With apologies to Roger Waters:

When we grew up and went to cheder
There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children in any way they could

By pouring their derision
Upon anything they did
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the yids
But in the town, it was well known
While driving home at night, they sat and
Molested boys on their laps
Ruining many of their lives.

We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
Yeshiva's not a place for thinking.
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

We sent them kids for education
Instead they practiced thought control
They left molesters in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just a little yid made to crawl.
All in all it's just a little yid made to crawl.

"Wrong, Do it again!"
"If you don't learn this gemara, you are a worthless human being. How can you
be worth anything if you don't learn this gemara?"

Anonymous said...

uoj:
We ,your fans in Flatbush,love you. We have one request.
As parents in YTT please don't close down the Yeshiva. It is the only yeshiva of it's kind that has an excellent secular department.Do you know that ithas Accreditation from Middlestates?(only schools such as Yeshiva Of Flatbush have attained this distinction) If YTT closes down where can we send our kids where they'll be able to write a coherent sentence?
Please reply.
With gratitude,
your flatbush friends.

Anonymous said...

i WOULDNT WORRY ABOUT YTT CLOSING DOWN.
IF INDEED THIS HAPPENED ? I AM SURE AND WILLING TO BET THAT THERE WOULD BE PLENTY OF PPL WHO WOULD JUMP TO REOPEN IT UNDER A VERY PROFFESSIONAL LEADERSHIP.

Middle States Commission on Elementary Schools said...

Middle States Commission on Elementary Schools
One Belmont Avenue, Suite 618, Bala Cynwyd, PA 19004-1609
(610) 617-1100 Fax: (610) 617-1106
info@ces-msa.org

NOTICE:

Middle States Commission on Elementary Schools HAS ACCREDITED THE SCHOOL BELOW. DUE TO THE CHARGES OF SEXUAL ABUSE AND COVER UP ALLEGED AGAINST THE SCHOOL THE CERTIFICATION IS BEING REVIEWED. WE REQUEST THAT ANYONE WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THE CHARGES CONTACT US AT THE ABOVE. ALL INFORMATION WILL BE HELD IN ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE.

SCHOOL:

Yeshiva and Mesivta Torah Temimah

Head Of School: Rabbi Yaakov Applegrad
School Information: 555 Ocean Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11218

Phone: 718-853-8500
Fax: 718-438-5779
E-mail: apple@ytt.edu
School Details: Level Of School: K-12
School Type: Religious School
Enrollment Size: 858
First Accredited Date: 5/1/2003
Last Accredited Date: 5/1/2003
The current homepage was last updated: 5/31/2006
District: NOT PART OF A SYSTEM OF SCHOOLS

Anonymous said...

This is in response to the posts: I am a mental health professional (experience and not with a major degree), I BELIEVE very strongly in the proposed measure to protect our Jewish children. I went to a yeshiva (not in NY) and baruch hashem never experienced the abuse. However, the boys in our school were hit by Rabbis, and yelled at by them. Many of them were fathers, my own brother had a female teacher hit him, and he came and told me!! She was dealt with by my parents.
As a parent of two children (one boy and one girl) I chose NOT to place them in a very orthodox school, due to the fact that there does seem to be a tolerance of abuse, just like there is a tolerance towards most disgressions of bein adam l’chavaroh (such as rudeness, prejudice etc.) A board should be set up to monitor our teachers, tutors, and others who deal with our precious human souls (children)!!! It is a shame that the various Jewish communities have not thought of this before. Further more, I propose that having a board is not enough. An extensive background check of our Menahalim should be done, as well as a confidential hotline be set up to accept abuse reports like they do in Ohel for domestic abuse BUT it should not be run by any existing Jewish non-for profit agency, or it’s decision makers including Rabbis. The board should not only be comprised of “professionals” with degree letters behind their names. Further more, the Bet Din? That is another issue for another time!!!!
If this does become a real board I am volunteering to be a part of it!! Blog Author only may request my contact details. To the person who is spear heading this kol hacovod!! May you be zoche to see many children’s nishomot saved, and be a known as a warrior of children….