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EFF Urges Court to Block Dragnet Subpoenas Targeting Online Commenters
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256 comments:
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http://chaptzem.blogspot.com/2006/05/reaction-to-kolko-article-after.html#comments
Rabbi Kolko and Rabbi Margulies if you have knowingly hurt Jewish children, our next generation, in any way, be it physical or emotional, or by just enabling it to happen, the punishment that you will suffer in this world will pale in comparison to what is awaiting you in the world to come. To the abused, if you can help other people by exposing abusers, by all means do so. Do not however stoop to their level by destroying Frum Yiddishkeit in the process.
Before anyone doubts any of the investigations they should try talking personally to a victim. Unfortunately there are enough victims of Kolko (y"s) to go around. Before you have made an effort to confirm please don't bash the victims who have had to suffer with this for many years. If you would like to contact a victim UOJ can put you in touch with some.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 15, 2006 10:12 PM
U expect the victims to wear a sign arount the neck with all the details? Then you'll site that as proof of insanity. They did all the right things, went to bais din etc. What are they to do if Bais Din wont believe them yet they KNOW WHO MOLESTED OR SODOMIZED THEM? Put up with it sitting down. Lord, I pray u afflict the children of the critics and the facilitators with what I and the rest of the victims have been thru. True Kolko wasn't who molested me. My molester was a chassidishe mechanech in Boro Park. I feel the pain of these adults having to carry these dark secrets in the heart for twenty plus years. I turned to my rabbi too and got nowhere. U can all criticize all u want while I cry till today and have nowhere to turn. As a victim I must suffer forever because halachicly ignorant rabbonim do nothing and worse, they destroy our credibility and the little self esteem our molesters left us. May god almighty avenge my suffering from my menahel and those who have assisted him in attacking me. God, count my tears and the tears of my family members who suffer from the resultant trauma I am left with. If I went public would the world not say I must be insane for doing just that?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 15, 2006 10:50 PM
I must disagree with you when you say that our system does not induce repression. I have attended mainstream yeshivas and camps and I must say that homosexual experimentation is rampant amongst sexually repressed boys. I do believe that many of these guys were not necessarily gay but needed an outlet for their urges and, being so closed off from the opposite sex, they naturally gravitated toward their own kind.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Disagree : May 15, 2006 10:54 PM
To the idiot kanoi who imagines that TT is not even dignifying the accusers with a response:
You are a complete piece of garbage. It's because of animals like you that many, many victims who were molested by Kolko and others, do not come forward. If there was video of a rabbi raping a child, you would still deny it and say it was doctored.
Keep imagining in your little fantasy bubble that TT is not going to "dignify" anoyone with a response. This is no longer a Yeshivishe game. The courts are now in charge, my little friend.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by gross : May 16, 2006 12:23 AM
Newslash:
"Harav Hagaon" Rav Chaim Pinchus Sheinberg is just as guilty as Kolko and all the other molestors.
His own brother and nephew have had and continue to run Yeshiva Migdal Torah in Neve Yakov, Yerushalayim and they have sytematicaaly sexually abused vulnerable talmidim learning there. Not mere fondling but actual sex between Rebbi and Talmud. Rabbi chaim pinchus Sheinberg knew everything and all along continues to help cover everything up.
Did someone say R Sheinberg Yemachshmo??
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 16, 2006 12:30 AM
remember
UOJ started this a year ago.
He asked for one simple thing. The rabbi should stop teaching.
Instead they tried to find out who he was, and attacked him.
If it turns out the rabbi is guilty, dont you think he is a rasha gamur for putting the community through this mess by simply not teaching anymore?
UOJ made it anoymous so this rabbi could have cover for retiring.
Yet, he didnt.
So they escalated the pressure on this rabbi. No one believed lawsuits and public expose in major magazines would follow.
That is the same pattern of all abusers
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 16, 2006 12:43 AM
most of the people on this blogg (excluding victims) don't have proof of actual molestation, they weren't there.
but there is a klal where there is smoke there is fire and here there is alot,alot of smoke.
anyone who learned in TT in those years knows of the "smoke" even people who are sympathetic to kolko.
my proof is in the fact when kolko was attacked at a bris in the mountains on a sunday morning by his victim (one the more known victims who has been on kolko's case for a long time) all kolko did was leave with out defending himself
now if i would be kolko and i was innocent that would've been a great time to defend my self and have it out with the person who's been on my case for years.
you cant say maybe he didn't want to bring attention to a story that most people don't know about all the guys there were TT boy's who all knew the story.
kolko has been saying for years lets go to bais din and have it out well that time would be perfect to stand up to his accuser and defend himself!!
what did he do he just walked away
to me thats about as close to admission as it gets
what say you?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 16, 2006 1:03 AM
I say that the facts that will be coming out in the coming days, weeks and months will rip our hearts out. Kolko destroyed so many pure children's lives. They are living in acute pain daily. They range in age from teens to forties. Margulies protected Kolko for over three decades knowing full well what he was doing. When the public sees the details of the abuse it will be unlike anything we have ever seen before. Again, it will be unlike anything we have ever seen before.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 16, 2006 1:17 AM
The Chofetz Chiam was very angry when he heard that a small local Cheder in Russia expelled a young boy because his father couldn't pay the tuiton. He said that the Mechanchim must be very caarefull in how they treat the children, because of the damage that 1 act by a rebbe can bring on all of Klal Yisroel. That little boy was later known to the world as Ilya Lenin. Yes one act can drive whole families away from Yiddeshkiet, therefore the perpetrator is a Choteh Umachteh es Horabima nd a Masis Umodiach and is Chiav Missa twice FOR EACH ACT AND CHILD> Hashem Yarachaim.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : May 16, 2006 9:07 AM
I have just finished reading the New York Magazine article. TODAY, not for the first time, but more than ever, I AM EMBARRASSED TO BE AN ORTHODOX JEW!!! What Rabbi Kolko did does not embarrass me - it sickens and repulses me. He is sick, and while he is still accountable for his actions, should not have done it, and should pay the price for not controlling his urges, he does not embarrass me.
However, the cover-up by his enablers does embarrass me. They are far worse because they did not have (as I'm sure Kolko will claim) uncontrollable urges. They had a responsibility to protect the children and stop the abuse, and they didn't.
Torah Temimah, if Rabbi Margulies does not resign (hopefully in handcuffs) by next Monday, May 22, 2006, should be shut down. Every parent in the school should be embarrassed about leaving their children there in their care. I am certain that every other yeshiva in town will gladly take the boys in to complete the semester and their education, but any parent who is not embarrassed and frightened to leave his kid OF ANY AGE in their care is a shameful parent.
I am very embarrassed by Rav Pinchas Scheinberg. For whatever motive, to say it is not actionable because there was no penetration is woefully sick, I don't care if the Gadol is 93 or 193. He has young m'shorsim who should be able to advise and explain to him what is going on. NOTHING MAKES THE TORAH LOOK MORE FOOLISH THAN HIS STATEMENTS. He has brought a great Chilul Hashem on our community by saying what he did.
I am embarrassed by the Jewish Press and their attack on UOJ. I hope they eat their words and apologize. I won't hold my breath because they will not do the right thing.
I am embarrassed by a blogger who can - in all sincerity and immense stupidity - write that loshan harah is worse than the actual sexual abuse. Once again, statements like that make the Torah (and us) look foolish. I have an image in my head that this blogger and Rav Scheinberg's comments have Hashem (k'v'yachol) weeping on his Heavenly throne. (Can this be why it has been raining day after day in New york as this article was going to press?)
I am embarrassed by the senseless and mindless attacks on UOJ. To me, he is a hero of the Jewish people. I hope that someday we know who he is and that right-thinking organizations will honor him and his work of great sacrifice and great patience and great courage. And if not, if he is never honored by basar v'dam, I am certain he will be honored by the Most Honorable On High, by He who is All Honor, for the dignity he tried to bring back to His children. May Hashem bless his hands and his handiwork.
"According to all who know them, Kolko's kids are a fantastic bunch. The apples fell very far from the tree. They deserve our caring and compassion."
Agreed.
Good point.
Hatzolh of Flatbush are the biggest pieces of shi*s in the world. Ture they save lives and we cannont go on with out them, but their leadership is absolutly disgusting. From their Rabbonim to the coordinators they should all be forced to resign.
Either that, or we will just start reporting them to the IRS, the NYS Department of Health and anyone else.
UOJ is living proof that you CAN force people to get punished for their crap. I am sick and tired of all shi*heads who run organizations and STEAL money from the community.
He was right.
UOJ, do some research on this.
To take on hatzolah is to endanger lives unless UOJ also wants the vans put to better use as a mobile park community on ocean parkway.
let the piggies beware.
UOJ seems to have a very well-read following. "Sunny McCloud" is the fictitious weatherman in an obscure novel called Under the Eye of the Storm, by John Richard Hersey, published in 1967. Hersey was a Pulitzer prize winning Cambridge fellow who wrote for The New Yorker.
"There is only one boss, the customer. And he can fire everybody in the company, from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else." - Sam Walton
The time has come for the parents of Torah temimah - every single family - to fire Margo and his crew by terminating their relationship with this "yeshiva," withdrawing their financial support, and placing their beloved children into schools where their children will be safe.
You, the parents of TT, are the bosses, the true bosses, by virtue of where you choose to spend your hard-earned dollars. Fire those that enabled a serial pedophile to run rampant for decades destroying countless lives while he gratified his perverse and deviant sexual apetite.
modern orthodox parent 54;
Eloquently said and I agree 100% with everything you've said.
The "enablers" have much to answer for and have Jewish Blood on their hands.
Our "Leaders" are a total unmitigated disgrace. To tell the victims that there is nothing actionable because there was no penetration is unfathomable. What about Tzar, Boshes?
We are in deep trouble.
I just skimmed all the comments and I can't believe not one person has mentioned this. KUDOS to Dovid Framowitz for speaking up and not hiding behind a John Doe. He has more guts than anyone I know!
Yashar koach, Dovid. I wish you much happiness and success. However this turns out, you are a winner and a hero to many people.
------------------
Omain V'Omain.
We at Frankel's try to act like shtatty Flatbush guys, but we're mostly 3rd generation Munkatchers. Our haysse Munkatcher cousins called the last Rebbe "mach shmoy" for being too much of a Tzioni. We're a bunch of Hungarians like Margo, so why shouldn't we cheat, lie and steal like in the old country ? Is it really so bad to put bodies in nursing home freezers, stiff diamond moychrim on 47th St by declaring bankruptcy or make the front page of the NY Times for almost every chilul Hashem in Brooklyn ? My farshtunkenna Ungarisher kop thinks not.
Kol Hakovod Modern Orthodox Parent 54!!
The world is astounded at the accomplishment of OUJ. It truly proves that one person can make a difference ("bishvelee nivrah haolam")
David Framowitz is a very brave man --
Based on several so-far unsubstantiated allegations, Mosdos haTorah, Gedolei Torah, bottei din, and a large segment of teh Frum population are being attacked.
Those attacks might be appropraite if the charges are found to be true.
But nothing has YET been established. All there's been is publicity-seeking press-releases. I would call it revenge, but I don't know that -- and most readers here or anywhere else have no way to know that -- these aren't completely trumped up stories.
Our courts are packed with slimey lawyers and phoney plaintiffs. "Just talk to them" and you'll buy their drivel too... that's why the evidence comes before a jury to decide, not newspapers.
BUT TO ACCEPT AS TRUE ATTACKS BASED ON ALLEGATIONS IN A LAWSUIT??
BASED ON STATEMENTS BY A PUBLICICTY-SEEKING AMBULANCE-CHASING ATTORNEY??
BASED ON THE ANONYMOUS BLOG OF A MALCONTENT??
"Where there's smoke there's fire." But sometimes the fire is the arsonist's pants -- and that is UOJ and Co.
Just received a copy of New York magazine. The true impact can be felt when reading the actual magazine. There are photos of Lipa Margo too.
mo parent 54, you don't have to be embarrassed to be an orthodox jew. Nothing someone else does should embarrass you - you can, and should only be embarrassed about something when you could have done something about and didn't. Why should I care if a few idiots who can't manage their institutions honestly ruin things for a little while...my Judaism is secure as long as I do the right thing, and support those who are doing the right thing. Right-minded individuals have to work to build a better and more stable structure...we have really only been in business in the US for some 60 years...we are now witnessing the passing of the old guard, incompetent ways of doing business -- ten years from now this will all be gone. All the posters who use these current events as excuses for their own abdication from Judaism, etc, are for the most part lying to themselves; for them, the decision not to remain a practicing jew has nothing to do with anyone named margulies or anything else -- rather with their own inadequacies and inabilities to measure up. Yes, there are huge levels of "chillul hashem" involved - on that level, it's embarrassing to have to talk to co-workers who are curious about the allegations - but I'm not exiting anything because of a few idiots...
http://orthomom.blogspot.com/
What's the story with Margo's kids ? Are they just as corrupt as he is ?
If Kolko did what the complaint alleges, this is an awful chillul Hashem. And those who harbored him must be severely censured. If he is, in fact, innocent. This is a terrible chillul Hashem, and those who instigated this must be severely censured.
I do not appreciate that all the commenters on this thread assume that Kolko is guilty. I also would appreciate if UOJ would qualify his point of view--so that we understand his obviously articulate understanding of the cons--and pros--of Orthodox Jewry. This seems to otherwise provide far too much a negative appeal on being frum all together, and I would think many frum Jews would object to this.
I know a lot of people are upset at Hirth from Passaic because he runs many Yeshivos in that area. But there is a Hillel there, and a new Yeshiva starting in or near Clifton. We don't neccessarily need to dismantle everyone we hate. There is good to him, too.
I firmly believe that UOJ acknowledges that not everyone is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY evil, and would appreciate if he word his comments, and encourage other commenters on this blog, to coin comments accordingly.
What a chilul shem shamayim. My congregants first started noticing the Kolko / Margulies outrages here after a mention at the RCA forum last week and even the more uninformed among them are all buzzing about the NY Mag piece. The yeshiva world has to learn the lesson that the Modern Orthodox learned the hard way with Lanner. You have to put a system in place and immediately flush out the garbage, starting with Margulies.
UOJ,
Is there going to be one lawsuit filed a week for the foreseeable future ?
The ability to accomplish in an un-orthodox method what was not able to be done conventionally, indicates to any rational person that the conventional rabbis and organizations got to go.
YTT and the organizations had SIX MONTHS TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT BEFORE UOJ DID WHAT CLEARLY TO ANY SANE PERSON READING HIS BLOG HE WAS LOATHE TO DO.
HE WARNED AND WARNED!!!!! DID ANY RABBI STAND UP AND PROCLAIM ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?
UOJ obviously loves Judaism and hates the people that destroyed it. Does he have a right to be upset???? Did he now get everybody's attention that he's mad as HELL and wont take it anymore?
Did he do something about it?
Will sexual abuse NOW finally be addressed in the Orthodox world?
Let's hope so, if not we know who to count on for help!
What have you done lately to root out the evil that is all around us?
http://dovbear.blogspot.com/2006/05/still-in-vicious-mood.html
Lipa Margulies sighting.
All is well, I am sure in the little planet known as the Yated. Will they dare mention anything? Of course not. Pieces of drek!
How very very very depressing.
While the issue of sexual abuse may indeed be a very large one, support for sexual abuses and sexual abusers is not the reason this went unreported and was not the reason why the victims were silenced.
Rather, the larger issue is the way that the frum hierarchy runs things as a "Good Ole Boys" club -- and know that they are accountable to NO ONE.
We've seen this again and again, whether they do so in order to crush those who are not to their liking -- or, to cover-up and lie for those who are to their liking.
It's the same script, played out over and over again. In this particular case, the issue was much more dramatic than the run-of-the-mill conspiracies, but the rules of the game were very much the same.
I just read the article in the "New York" Magazine. All I can say is, I hope the truth is revealed, and for all those who stepped up to the forces against you - I clap my hands. right or wrong, truth or false - there must be a way to educate our children and prevent something like this from ever happening again. and to all those who oppose this idea - a Big F*** You. Maybe someone can create a blog that is dedicated to getting something done for the future.
Hello UOJ,
hope all is well. First off a big yashar koach on all that you did and are still doing for the kehilla. Re : the new york magazine article - i think one of the the best comments was made by the lawyer who said that jewish kids have every right to be protected as catholic kids.
i don't know how the agudah and the moetzt are going to spin this (if at all) but i have a couple of suggestions that might make them squirm.
1. Post that anyone who has membership with agudath israel of america cancel their membership (unless they apologize and come out against torah temimah. if people can't do this then they should let their membership run out and not renew it !!
2. Cancelling their subscription (or letting it run out) to The Jewish Observer - magazine of aguda
2. Nobody should donate to torah umesorah (unless they comply with everything above)
Of course, you can add as many conditions as you want. I believe as soon as they see (or fear) that their funding will be going down, they will be squealing like stuck pigs. And who knows, there might be some attempt at change.
Good Luck.
I'm going to be a little brave here. I work at one of the major organizations that clearly are guilty of being involved in the coverup.
I am certain I know who UOJ is, I will not say how or why.
So I'll just say enough for him maybe to post this.
He paid for a mass mailing.
He expected to go to bais din so he retained an expensive toen.
He retained a frum attorney for legal counsel on this issue.
He single handedly supports hundreds of people who do not have parnassah.
He is a musmach.
he is a college graduate.
He is from a family of gvirim adirim.
He told nobody who he is.
He never accepts kavod for anything, all his tzedakah is anonymous.
He drives a modest car and lives in a modest home.
He spends a good part of his day learning.( I don't know about lately)
He is a kanoi l'tov.
In my eyes he is one of a kind and deserves recognition for his success in bringing this abuse issue to the boiling point where it will have to be dealt with.
Why not get just rid of Rabbi Margolis and Rabbi Kolko?
Is everyone in Torah Temimah to blame?
UOJ by choice has left a new comment on your post "LIPA MARGULIES, YESHIVA TORAH TEMIMAH AND YUDI KOLKO MESARAIV L'DIN (IN CONTEMPT OF JEWISH COURT) ":
All of you anti-UOJites are really quite pathetic. Here the scum of the earth are abusing our children or enabling them to do so and all you can do is scream at the one person trying to bring them to justice.
UOJ is trying to stop these animals from doing to our kids what the establishment has been doing to the community for years.
Publish this comment.
Reject this comment.
Moderate comments for this blog.
Posted by UOJ by choice to Un-Orthodox Jew at 5/16/2006 12:07:04 PM
i remember playing ball against camp manavu years ago when i was with a different camp.Kolko would sit on the side and watch the game.How did he survive in camp all those years?His kid played on the manavu team.I think he put in about 30-40 points against us.I wonder what the family is thinking and feeling.Must not be easy on them.
My Dear Orthorev,
Welcome to our blog. I appreciate your passion and understand your frustration.
I don't want you to feel hurt that I have not put up some of your comments; let me sort of give you the parameters of what we don't generally put up and how to get around the parameters. (Not rules)
1- If you absolutely must use the F bomb, we don't spell it out, we use asterisks.F***
2-In general, the use of yiddish curse words somehow sounds softer than English words; for example if you want to call someone "a piece of s***", kindly use "shtik drek."
3-Kiss my A**, sounds much kinder and gentler when you say "kish meer in tuchis."
4-"Eat S***",= drekfresser" or if a must, "shit zulst do essen."
I hope you get the drift and are not insulted.
Your anger is felt by most of us and we want you to express your concerns...couch your words so the "yeshiveshe crowd" doesn't go back to Yeshiva World.
UOJ
UOJ,
Continued hatzlacha.You backed up all you said and 'put your life and money what your mouth and blog said.We are with you all the way.
Upset about gadolim?
Sit down. Stop.
Take a deep breath.
Congratulations. You've just inhaled some of the ashes of people who listened to the learned gadolim of the early 20th century.
Now that would be the basis of an interesting lawsuit.
Off topic.
Wordsmith, I'd love to take credit for being as erudite as you imply, but I totally made that name up, years ago for a game site. But that bit of trivia was interesting to note :-)
Your tone here is so indicative of the general attitude you take toward your self-chosen "mission."
This may come as a shock to you, but you hold peoples' reputations in your hands, especially now. That is an awesome responsibility, and one that should NEVER be taken lightly. To make a joke of it speaks to your essentially lighthearted nature regarding these matters.
Just because you were correct once does not mean that you can continue to act the way you do relying on half baked "insider information" (eg: "deep nose") and common wisdom about people you or your circle accuse.
To name call and attack your critics without a sense of self-reflection is just a sign of your inherent immaturity. Let the groupies go, take time to truly analyze your actions and motives in each case. If you are not bochen your lev, god will test it for you, and if found wanting, the ultimate penalty will ultimately apply.
UOJ, if the poster who works for one of the guilty major Jewish organizations is truthful, you're a successful businessman. He said that you personally support hundreds of people who don't have a parnassah. I'm not looking for a handout, but I do operate a one man embroidery shop and if any of your business enterprises need logo apparel or any other embroidered promotional items, my prices are very competitive. Also, I make a number of custom and semi custom Judaica items like challah covers and hand washing towels that make lovely and lasting gifts. You can check my work out at my web site, www.autothreads.com. I don't think there'd be any problem w/ your anonymity. I've done business w/ people around the world so it's not unusual to get a call to quote a job from Brooklyn.
BTW, since you raised the subject of cursing in Yiddish, why is "go shit in the lake" such an insult?
Yaasher Koach on getting something done.
anon;
I agree 100% with you. All of us are remiss in not pointing out that David Framowitz is a Man of Courage and deserves our utmost respect and gratitude.
Wordsmith;
You are not by any chance Mishpocho/colleague to the great William Safire?
From Orthmom, the "Lawrence Blog"
_________________________________
Halachic Authority said...
The issue of whether or not OM, a self-proclaimed non-gossipmonger, should have blogged about this topic at all is difficult and challenging.
On the one hand, OM is not as “evil” as UOJ from a hateful rhetoric perspective but, on the other, UOJ – taken at his word - has a helluva lot more to be pissed about, in light of his past experiences with “the beards,” not to mention his obvious intimate ties to one or more of the alleged victims.
Back to the first hand, if these allegations are true, nothing can be more important than engaging in open, mainstream dialogue about these previously “taboo” issues (something that was impossible in the pre-blog era), but only if such dialogue is with a view towards effectively accomplishing the establishment of a secure educational environment for our children, and the restoration of dignity and respect to the title “Rabbi.”
This aspect of “scandal” publication is NOT -- as some would say -- a “chilul Hashem.” In fact, it is precisely the opposite (if true). It is a kiddush Hashem of epic proportions that freaks and frauds holding themselves out as Rabbonim will finally be brought to justice.
It is a kiddush Hashem that even after 25 years of sweeping this issue under the rug, real frum rabbinic authorities will ultimately step forward and acknowledge that this sickness is also rampant in our community (albeit potentially to a lesser extent than society generally – maybe).
It is a kiddush Hashem to know that “Orthodox” Jews – and even REAL Rabbis – have human urges and sicknesses and yet, despite those urges and sicknesses, most of us – and most Rabbonim - rise above such evil inclinations -- not necessarily inclinations to molest a child, but for myriad other sins -- and conduct themselves in a manner which, for the most part, sets us apart from other segments of society.
The fact that today, as a result of scandal publication, there’s an actual chance that my children will – unlike me – truly respect a Rov and a Rabbi by default until proven otherwise, is an absolute kiddush Hashem. Unfortunately, in my mind, the default thought process has always been vice versa.
BUT, ON THE LATTER HAND, IF THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE FALSE, NOTHING CAN BE MORE DESTRUCTIVE, HATEFUL OR HURTFUL THAN FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF SEXUAL IMPROPRIETIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN. END OF STORY.
…..But, facts are facts and the only thing we know to be fact at this point (for purposes of this situation and this blog), is that OM has indeed blogged about this topic. So now that it’s out there, I'll take the bait. Here are my thoughts:
At the outset, I want to be abundantly clear that I personally know the accused individuals (both the pedophile and his criminal accomplices) as an alum of YTT, and I do not conclusively know the identities of UOJ or any of the accusers (other than the plaintiff named in the article). Also, it's worth reiterating that I'm proceeding on the assumption that these allegations are true, something that is certainly FAR from proven to most of us.
The accused molester is a sick, sick man. The acts described in the article are those of someone who has a uniquely serious - possibly uncontrollable - disease. That's no excuse, of course, and he should be locked up for life. Let's hope Herman finds an SOL loophole. But it’s the accused acts’ themselves which are the chilul Hashem, not any well-intentioned publication of his horrific acts by others.
The “co-conspirators” who, for years, looked the other way are clearly criminals. Their heads should roll along-side (or even in front of) the accused pedophile for subjecting decades of children, including me, to potential life-ruining abuse. To be clear, I was not a victim of the accused molester, but I’m certainly among the thousands of victims of these irresponsible and selfish individuals who hid behind the veil of “halacha” for all these years. These guys threw thousands of young children in front of a moving truck; thankfully, far less than that number were splattered all over the street.
Now to my main point - the REAL chilul Hashem on which some, but very few, have been focused. Again, everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, so I can only assume that these facts on which I’m basing my rant are untrue. Nevertheless, this must be clarified.
Both on UOJ’s blog and in the New York Magazine article, a certain Rosh Yeshiva – considered by many to be a Posek Hador – is accused of uttering a “psak” that is far beyond what the Torah intended or envisioned to capture within the meaning of “chilul Hashem.” The alleged “psak” was that, notwithstanding hearing the victims’ accounts of the heinous acts perpetrated by the accused pedophile, since no “penetration” was alleged to have occurred, no halachic grounds existed to remove this individual or report him to the authorities.
At the very least, without getting graphic, I hope that the reports simply and ignorantly omitted the fact that the victims did not claim the existence of an act of Onanism, which is indisputably a biblical prohibition.
To me, even if Talmudic scholars can debate whether or not the acts described in the article constituted a halachic violation, the mere fact that a “Posek Hador” can be on the record as having – in effect – permitted the ongoing molestation of a 12-year-old boy on the halachic grounds of non-penetration, is the greatest “chilul Hashem” imaginable.
This alleged psak is analogous to the 9/11 terrorists relying on the Koran to kill in excess of 3000 people. If any reputable Muslim world leader would be accused of standing behind such position, the majority of Muslim reputable leaders would IMMEDIATELY condemn their fellow leader and his position. Moreover, if the Muslim leader did not in fact make the alleged statement, within minutes of being notified that such statements were attributed to him, he would vehemently deny all allegations and set the world straight as to the Koran’s precise position on the issue.
To my knowledge, the Posek Hador in question has not issued a statement denying these “psak allegations,” nor has he admitted to issuing the psak and subsequently retracting it and, in fact, has not issued any public comment AT ALL on this topic.
Consequently, the average Joe, frum or not frum, jewish or non-jewish, is led to believe that rubbing your ***** against a twelve-year-old boy in an effort to arouse yourself, is an act that is permissible under Jewish law. Is there any possible chilul Hashem greater than leading people to believe that Orthodox Judaism, as an institutional policy, does not condemn pleasuring yourself by placing your hand down a young boy’s pants on your lap in a car?
The accused pedophile is just one sick man, which most people can view as an exception (even if a few more sickos exist). But this is about WAY more than just one man; this psak is about a religion that, ostensibly, does not allow you to walk behind a woman in the street, yet allows you to molest little boys!!!
Before anything else, the record must be set straight as to what exactly the “torah view” is on non-penetrating pedophiles. I know it sounds sick, but what’s really sick is that this point was not addressed and clarified by the Poskei Hador within minutes of the NY Mag publication or the psak’s appearance on UOJ’s blog.
I cannot get into a detailed analysis at the moment, but PLEASE publicize to ALL that any man-on-man touching of a sexual nature, whether on the hand, foot or anywhere else, and whether with clothing off, on, through a sheet or otherwise, is absolutely and unequivocally forbidden by the Torah. In fact, it was read from the Torah this past week (“Lo sikrivu l’galos ervasa,” which applies to all arayos, including mishkav zachor). According to the overwhelming majoring and prevailing view, this prohibition applies to male on male sexual “touching” as well, and applies irrespective of penetration or the existence of an act of Onanism. Period.
And that’s not even taking into account the element of imputed force involved in this case, and the minor’s incapacity to consent to any act, let alone a sexual act.
I am deeply saddened and sickened to be associated with a religion in which our greatest leaders have neither denied nor commented on this outrageous allegation made by UOJ and the New York Times Magazine about a Posek Hador. And this Posek Hador is now in the US, so he -- or at least his multiple assistants who found the time to call people for donations -- is undoubtedly aware of the existence of this article and its content.
My hope is that my facts are just completely wrong, or I’m simply out of the loop and totally missed the public statement issued by “daas torah.” And my hope is that these accusations against the accused and his co-conspirators are found to be completely and totally fabricated, and that UOJ is in fact the real monster.
BUT, if the accusations are in fact true, UOJ is not the great villain, but instead a real life super-hero, single-handedly accomplishing what no one else was capable of doing for the last 30 years. And through his bluster and action, the lives of thousands of OUR children have been saved. You may not like his style (as Yakov did not like the style of Shimon and Levi in Shechem), but his accomplishments are historical.
The dust will settle on this nightmare scandal and, in all probability, this consequences will primarily relate to individuals – either the world realization of the destruction of the lives of the victims by virtue of the abuse and the silence, or the destruction of the lives of the accused pedophile and his co-conspirators by virtue of being falsely accused. But what will NEVER go away is the indelible impression left on potentially hundreds of thousands of people worldwide that Orthodox Judaism – with all its rules and regulations – with all the no hand-shaking between opposite sexes in the workplace – permits a 40-year-old man to fondle, molest and stick his hands down the pants of a 12-year-old boy, so long as no penetration occurs.
What a chilul Hashem.
UOJ---
Apologies for running afoul of some of the 'customs' of the board(FYI- rules in a normal society are, not only not inherently bad, but imprtant. It is we have 'rules gone wild' and 'rules for the sake of rules' or 'rules for the board meeting to discuss archiac rules'- that a problem emerges.)
Without sounding like a total sap- (and at the expense of some repetition):
I grew up totally frum/orthodox (or at least brooklyn orthodox-which is realy not a part of judaism at all- but I digress).
I am a corporate lawyer in a top 10 law firm in NYC, have a wife and a kid (both frum) and absolutley unabashedly HATE JUDAISM.
The people are disgusting, the misplaced focus is damaging and destructive on so many levels and the people, in genereal, aim to destroy children (even in situations of non-outright abuse).
I actually still wear a yarmulka to work (just goes to show how messed-up the sitauation is)...
BUT and here is the point... until you came along I would never ever speak about anything remotley Jewish or concernning Judaism to anyone...
Now..I must have must have spent 99.99 percent of my non-work realted conversation (at work) discussing and telling people about "theunorthodoxjew.com" and what you have accomplished.
I live in Passaic and was thinking if it would be feasable to start a web-site that would, at least initially, shed light on several distinc ways that the Jewish community is aiming, with lightning accuracy, to destroy the entire next generation of jews. I persoanlly know of three families that have been ripped apart-- the fathers in such families totally left Judaism since they simply could not deal with the utter and very pure evil (yes evil) and deciet of the rabbenate and their singualar focus on all things unmeaningful, at the expesne of our youth- and their desire to control/manipulate at the expense of the general destruction to our people).
Would you be amenable to contributing/guiding or in any way lending you invaluable know-how to such a site.
Tentative Name "PassaicPrust.com".
Lastly, one thought, occasionaly, in prior posts, I used langauge that may very well be seen as really graphic and vile- but here is the point I was trying to make-
If questions like
"which pair of tzitious does schienberg use to 'clean-up' after molestation"
or
"is molestation parephenalia incluided in the cost of tution at tt?"
If these mere questions and posts on a blog make you sick-- then you should question yourself "why dosen't the actual abuse itself make me tremble and vomit with disgust"??
OrthoRev
eight months ago my husbabd took ill. we have many kinderlach and no way or means to support ourself.
we received frm tomchei shabbos food for shabbes for we are thankful. then we get a call from a person who did not say who it is. he said to go see a certain rov and the rov will help. i went to the rov and told him our story. in a few days i received a money order with no name and no return address for five thousand dollars. there was a note saying to please be in touch with the rov monthly.
I receive very generous monthly checks. there are good jews out there. if this is uoj may hakodosh baruch hu bleess you and your fanily with kol tuv.without this check we coldnt live.
Dear Lipa Geldwirth:
Did you get to keep your bungalow and its contents when you sold your share of MaNaVu to Klein?
If yes, please return my personal belongings to me as I'm being asked to testify against you and could use some more hard evidence.
Also, if you come across my connections to orthodox judaism that you robbed from me, send it on over. I'd like to explain to my friends and family exactly who and what you are.
Best regards,
P.S. Lay off of the good guys. You don't come close to E.G.'s toe nails.
Anonymous, unfortunately my story is the opposite. A Jew came to me and told me he had incredible tax strategies - that he was very successful. He knew IRS protocol down to a science. He played on the fact that I had kids in yeshiva, etc... and other things that were going on in my life. This Jew, now in jail, has left me with more tzorus over the last few years than I can bear. Of course, he was a tax schemer and his strategy was to take my money and leave me holding the bag. Now I worry every minute about this problem. While I know I am ultimately responsible, in looking back I know that someone took advantage of me when I was vulnerable. What I have learned is to look past the clothes, the type of yarmulka, the lvush and the dibbur, to make character judgments based on character and not the external.
I admire UOJ and what he has done. The Kolko abuse is the tip of the iceberg. I don't care if he is anonymous. He has done what 30 years and hundreds if not thousands of men could not. He is the epitome of bmakom shain ish hishtadel lihiyos ish. May he go maychayil el choyil.
you are using secular remedies,obviously you are dealing with a secular problem.
a beis din deal with a torah problem and therefore only have torah problems.
many of the people involved in protesting all this,have done things in their past that according to secular law is considered statutory rape.
it could of gotten the many years & Megan's law to boot.
i wont name names , but the john does are black.
UOJ,
Can you send me a check as well if this were not youI don't believe you would post the comment. I live in ISrael so I don't need $5000 a month $1000 will do the trick.
kol tov,
UOJ: thanks for the rules.
Now for m venting.
Margo is a shtick drek who will get his tuchas fried in the coming future. I think that it's outragous that this ben zonah has been allowing a tinuf like kolko to be around children after he was caught touching the mokom bris millah of yiddisher kinder. I hope his zach gets caught in a meat grinder just to give him the punishment of 'ayen tachas ayen'.
By the way. Do you know of any confirmed cases of forced BIAS PEH?
I wouldnt put it past a mamzar like him.
I hope the name of the IBMer Rebbe is zachur latov. He cannot be left out the equation in the years in question at CA. SK and SH ran camp agudah. They were the ultimate authorities after BB.
When will every camp reunion become a survivor's meeting?
Call in and speak with Jeffrey Herman, Esq. the attorney suing Kolko and Torah Temimah on:
TALKLINE WITH ZEV BRENNER America’s premier Jewish program.
Tonight, Wednesday May 17th 9-10pm
WSNR 620 AM (NY)
WLVJ 1040AM(FL)
We thank you UOJ for bringing this issue to light.There are people that have suffered for decades because of the abuse.
Thanks Again
i think u are sick person,who is embarresed of his judaism and who has contemp for yiddishkeit and has OCD.MAY YOU HAVE THE ZECHUS TO DO TESHUVAH
" think u are sick person,who is embarresed of his judaism and who has contemp for yiddishkeit and has OCD.MAY YOU HAVE THE ZECHUS TO DO TESHUVAH"
Let us say for arguments sake that the above is true. What does that have to do with the credibility of the accusers?
Hi. I was a talmid of YK in the very early 70's. I also attended Ma Na Vu in the first years. At that age I did not notice anything different about YK but who know's. Am I supposed to be insulted that nothing happened to me? The one strange thing that I remember that is now answered is why he threw me out of camp. It was a girly magazine that he claims I had, not a Playgirl type.
Orthorev,
I know a few attorneys in Passaic--a few of whom work for top 10 law firms, and I have a feeling as to who you may be. I, for one, do not believe all rabbonim are out to destroy people. I think you really should rethink your posture before you commence an out-and-out war. I may have talked with you about hashkafic issues before, and you may recall that I kind of recoiled at some of your questions. Let's be thoughtful here.
I left Passaic. I hated it there. There are good people there, but I kinda got hurt by the smaller minded, creepy jealous type that still lurks around in Passaic (the old timers). It takes time to get over false friends.
So a lot of us here really can't stand Margolis. His is nasty. It is understandable. But since this is the case why did so many of you send your children to his school? Everyone knew how vile he is 30something years ago. Yet there were never any left-over seats in the classes. I would never send a child to that school. Why did you?
I wonder how many of YOU really care about your children? Most of you probably felt that it was the frumest place, and all your neighbors had to see your kids going there, and you'll deal with the lowlifes who run it. And then you sit around and hate Margolis! You ever wonder what your children think of you for sending them to a place run by a man like him?
After spending too many years there, I'm not likely to send any child of mine to a yeshiva at all.
I think its wrong to presume guilt before its proven.
YIDI KOLKO a/k/a YEHUDA KOLKO played together with ISRAEL BELSKY. Israel Belsky of Torah Vodaath is the "Rabbi" of Camp Agudah and since 1970 was intimately apprised of all the sexcapades and pedophile acts at that Camp and elsewhere. According to his victims at the camp,during that time, Yisroel Belsky enjoyed listening to them complain of how they were actually molested by his close friend the pedophile Yidi Kolko. Belsky would do NOTHING to stop Yidi Kolko. Is Belsky any better than Kolko? I loudly say certainly not. Shame on them both!!! Shame on Camp Agudah!!! It was only after Yidi Kolko realized that he needed more sexual control that he opened up his own CAMP MENUVAL for boys, together with Shlomie Klein.
Recently during his shiur at Yeshiva Torah Vodaath, Rabbi Yisroel Belsky stated that he always backed Yidi Kolko and will continue to do so in the future. Rabbi Yisroel Belsky supported his position based on never hearing allegations of Yidi Kolko penetrating anyone with his penis. Therefore he said Yid Kolko should not be considered a pedophile, and permitted back to his class at YTT.
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